Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[Malifice]

I am as well. Suspect we'll be as active as we were last year. Even if we just take the last 24 hours, we are well on our way to securing Marchbank, Tomlinson and Prestia.

All the re-signings today lead me to believe that the cards have pretty much fallen for most trades already. Reckon most blokes already have a very good idea where they're going next year already.

 

[HBF]

All the re-signings today lead me to believe that the cards have pretty much fallen for most trades already. Reckon most blokes already have a very good idea where they're going next year already.

Players get where they want to go these days. If these 3 have nominated Carlton then there odds on to get there.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Fair enough. Not sure what draws you to that conclusion though.



Yeah he said pick#4, Everitt and Touhy to get Prestia, Mitchell and Marchbank. That is giving up pick#4! And no, I don't "think" anything about Mitchell's game I've watched him play many, many times. When he has the other guys around him then the attention gets focused on them as well. We have a midfield that is nowhere near Sydney's.



2017 Draft is said to have some real elite talent in the top 10. Giving up that first rounder would be foolish.



But, I have suggested this a few times now and you've responded to me on those occasions as well. Look, if you don't think trading Gibbs is a good idea then fine, you're entitled to your opinion but don't go around saying shit like I know nothing about football. How many times do people have to be told on here not to play the man? It's clear that any mention of trading Gibbs offends you for some reason, you his mate or something? The guy has shown little leadership since Murphy's been out and doesn't go hard at the ball. Exactly what we don't need. In a side like GWS he will thrive. He will have the freedom to play his outside game and get away with it. Shuey bumped him off tackles easily, Shiel bumped him off the ball easily. Gibbs is like the cream on top but he's not going to show the youngsters the way like you think he is.



Well that's great.



So now you change your tune. GC are not above us on the ladder. End of story. Marchbank was best 22? Or was he getting a run to see his worth?



Why package our first and second when we can package our second and two third rounders? Like I said pick#24 + #40 + #49 > Pick#9 in terms of points...



Of course we need to trust SOS, but look at what he did last year. Smart trading that got us a plethora of early draft picks and players with potential. That's what I think we should do again this year. I've already mentioned it a multitude of times!



Curnow well and truly proven to be elite? Jumping the gun a bit early there. I like the guy and am very excited about his potential but we need to see him in action a bit more to make that call.



Neither do I. Again, I've already mentioned this in previous posts.



But you include Brodie even though you don't think we'll get him? Doesn't make sense. Rainbow is struggling in the two's very hard to see him excelling at AFL level.

Here's what I proposed earlier:

We should try and get a second rounder for Casboult. Couple that second rounder with ours and throw in Everitt as steak knives to get that pick from them. Two picks from #23-#27 should have the points of pick#8-#9 covered if not, give up the Dogs third rounder as well.

That will leaves us with Pick #4-#5 + #8-#9 + #40-#41.

Then for the GWS4, we give up a package of players and future second rounder. I'd say throw in Touhy + Rowe and 2017 2nd rounder. Touhy and Rowe should be worth 2 second rounders. Coupled with next year's second rounder it's essentially 3 2nd round dps for Marchbank and Tomlinson. Too many other clubs chasing Steele by the sound of things and it's not worth giving up any extra. I'm already going cold on Tomlinson and Marchbank is already struggling to get on the park. If GWS want to ask for more, then good luck to them I'd say.

Then, next year we will have our top 10 pick from where we finish and we can go all out for another by offering up the 2018 first rounder and another player worthy of a second round pick.

4 top ten picks over the next couple of drafts is what we should be aiming for. Three years of multiple top 10 picks and smart trading will get us where we want to be.

IF that all falls into place, then by 2018 we'll look something like this:

B: Docherty Marchbank Byrne

HB: Gibbs Weitering Plowman

C: Tomlinson Cripps 2016#2

HF: Murphy C.Curnow Boekhorst

F: Silvagni McKay 2017#2

FOL: Kreuzer 2016#1 E.Curnow

I/C: 2017#1, Cuningham, 2016#3, Sumner

With 2016#1 => Pick#4-#5
2016#2 => Pick#8-#9
2017#1 => Pick#6-#7
2017#2 => Pick#9-#10

So you see, I'm not fully against trading in players. Just do NOT want to give up our first rounders. Instead we need to work out how to bring in more! Notice how I kept Gibbs in? Because I know it's highly unlikely that we'll ever trade him.

Youre cooked hey mate.

 

[Red Bull]

If Cas is traded to Brisbane I wonder if we can work pick #4 and pick #2 into the deal so we can get Brodie (assuming Essendon take McCluggage with #1)?

i.e. Cas and pick #4 to Brisbane for picks #20 and #2? That would be a great outcome.

Probably optimistic

Surely they'll throw Schache in too ...
Seriously though , i reckon * should beat the Lions this weekend thus putting Brisbane in the box seat for pick 1 ...

 

[Dramoth]

All the re-signings today lead me to believe that the cards have pretty much fallen for most trades already. Reckon most blokes already have a very good idea where they're going next year already.

My new half-brother reckons that Tomlinson is definitely going to be playing elsewhere next year. He isn't close enough to the Giants to know who... but he knows that he is going.

PS: my new brother has been invited by the giants to setup a GWS supporters group in Brisbane.

 

[HARKER]

All the re-signings today lead me to believe that the cards have pretty much fallen for most trades already. Reckon most blokes already have a very good idea where they're going next year already.

Good thinking chief.

 

[Mezzoculo]

I am as well. Suspect we'll be as active as we were last year. Even if we just take the last 24 hours, we are well on our way to securing Marchbank, Tomlinson and Prestia.

Jesus, HBF. You are jinxing it. I will hold you personally responsible if we don't get all three of those players.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Jesus, HBF. You are jinxing it. I will hold you personally responsible if we don't get all three of those players.

Same

 

[LanceRomance]

Surely they'll throw Schache in too ...
Seriously though , i reckon * should beat the Lions this weekend thus putting Brisbane in the box seat for pick 1 ...

yep. Cant see Brissy winning this.

 

[thylacine60]

Fair enough. Not sure what draws you to that conclusion though.



Yeah he said pick#4, Everitt and Touhy to get Prestia, Mitchell and Marchbank. That is giving up pick#4! And no, I don't "think" anything about Mitchell's game I've watched him play many, many times. When he has the other guys around him then the attention gets focused on them as well. We have a midfield that is nowhere near Sydney's.



2017 Draft is said to have some real elite talent in the top 10. Giving up that first rounder would be foolish.



But, I have suggested this a few times now and you've responded to me on those occasions as well. Look, if you don't think trading Gibbs is a good idea then fine, you're entitled to your opinion but don't go around saying shit like I know nothing about football. How many times do people have to be told on here not to play the man? It's clear that any mention of trading Gibbs offends you for some reason, you his mate or something? The guy has shown little leadership since Murphy's been out and doesn't go hard at the ball. Exactly what we don't need. In a side like GWS he will thrive. He will have the freedom to play his outside game and get away with it. Shuey bumped him off tackles easily, Shiel bumped him off the ball easily. Gibbs is like the cream on top but he's not going to show the youngsters the way like you think he is.



Well that's great.



So now you change your tune. GC are not above us on the ladder. End of story. Marchbank was best 22? Or was he getting a run to see his worth?



Why package our first and second when we can package our second and two third rounders? Like I said pick#24 + #40 + #49 > Pick#9 in terms of points...



Of course we need to trust SOS, but look at what he did last year. Smart trading that got us a plethora of early draft picks and players with potential. That's what I think we should do again this year. I've already mentioned it a multitude of times!



Curnow well and truly proven to be elite? Jumping the gun a bit early there. I like the guy and am very excited about his potential but we need to see him in action a bit more to make that call.



Neither do I. Again, I've already mentioned this in previous posts.



But you include Brodie even though you don't think we'll get him? Doesn't make sense. Rainbow is struggling in the two's very hard to see him excelling at AFL level.

Here's what I proposed earlier:

We should try and get a second rounder for Casboult. Couple that second rounder with ours and throw in Everitt as steak knives to get that pick from them. Two picks from #23-#27 should have the points of pick#8-#9 covered if not, give up the Dogs third rounder as well.

That will leaves us with Pick #4-#5 + #8-#9 + #40-#41.

Then for the GWS4, we give up a package of players and future second rounder. I'd say throw in Touhy + Rowe and 2017 2nd rounder. Touhy and Rowe should be worth 2 second rounders. Coupled with next year's second rounder it's essentially 3 2nd round dps for Marchbank and Tomlinson. Too many other clubs chasing Steele by the sound of things and it's not worth giving up any extra. I'm already going cold on Tomlinson and Marchbank is already struggling to get on the park. If GWS want to ask for more, then good luck to them I'd say.

Then, next year we will have our top 10 pick from where we finish and we can go all out for another by offering up the 2018 first rounder and another player worthy of a second round pick.

4 top ten picks over the next couple of drafts is what we should be aiming for. Three years of multiple top 10 picks and smart trading will get us where we want to be.

IF that all falls into place, then by 2018 we'll look something like this:

B: Docherty Marchbank Byrne

HB: Gibbs Weitering Plowman

C: Tomlinson Cripps 2016#2

HF: Murphy C.Curnow Boekhorst

F: Silvagni McKay 2017#2

FOL: Kreuzer 2016#1 E.Curnow

I/C: 2017#1, Cuningham, 2016#3, Sumner

With 2016#1 => Pick#4-#5
2016#2 => Pick#8-#9
2017#1 => Pick#6-#7
2017#2 => Pick#9-#10

So you see, I'm not fully against trading in players. Just do NOT want to give up our first rounders. Instead we need to work out how to bring in more! Notice how I kept Gibbs in? Because I know it's highly unlikely that we'll ever trade him.

Some sort of explosion

 

[thylacine60]

And HBF's fault if we get them and any turn out duds. Also this weekends weather.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Gold Coast don't need points. Trading pick 9 just means that they will lose thier second rounders. Our thirds are pointless to them because they can take 4 second round picks if they don't trade 9. If they do they will get maybe 2 picks in the second round. They can do a lot better then what people are suggesting on here

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Youre cooked hey mate.

Yeah mate!

- You think we're going to make finals next year with a midfield that couldn't even cope with Brisbane's in Murphy's absence
- You think Charlie Curnow is well and truly proven elite talent after a handful of games
- You include Brodie in your future line up even though you don't think we're going to get him
- You think Rainbow is going to make it at AFL level even though he's been struggling in the 2's
- You said GC were above us on the ladder when clearly they aren't
- You said the original post I argued against did not include pick#4 in any trade deal when it did
- You go by the word of mouth regarding this year's draft talent but ignore the word of mouth for next year's pool by wanting to trade 2017 first rounder

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Yeah mate!

- You think we're going to make finals next year with a midfield that couldn't even cope with Brisbane's in Murphy's absence
- You think Charlie Curnow is well and truly proven elite talent after a handful of games
- You include Brodie in your future line up even though you don't think we're going to get him
- You think Rainbow is going to make it at AFL level even though he's been struggling in the 2's
- You said GC were above us on the ladder when clearly they aren't
- You said the original post I argued against did not include pick#4 in any trade deal when it did
- You go by the word of mouth regarding this year's draft talent but ignore the word of mouth for next year's pool by wanting to trade 2017 first rounder

Yeah point proven hey, youre not even a blues supporter. Obviously some elaborate troll.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Yeah point proven hey, youre not even a blues supporter. Obviously some elaborate troll.

I don't agree with your views so I MUST be an elaborate troll. Hahaha yeah keep throwing your toys mate.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I don't agree with your views so I MUST be an elaborate troll. Hahaha yeah keep throwing your toys mate.

No it's more the constant changing of my points to twist my argument, the constant bad mouthing of all things Carlton and the reference to the Whats Cooking ad, which only blatant trolls bring up.

In fact it actually backs up my point that a couple of high draft picks isnt enough to build us up, which is your modus operandi, so the fact you posted that picture means you either didnt see the irony or youre a troll.

Either way....

 

[Blue_Fusion]

No it's more the constant changing of my points to twist my argument, the constant bad mouthing of all things Carlton and the reference to the Whats Cooking ad, which only blatant trolls bring up.

In fact it actually backs up my point that a couple of high draft picks isnt enough to build us up, which is your modus operandi, so the fact you posted that picture means you either didnt see the irony or youre a troll.

Either way....

Didn't change any of your points. I just listed most of them and they are mostly illogical.

What constant bad mouthing of all things Carlton? This is constant bad mouthing of Carlton?
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-by-7-points-to-eagles.1138624/#post-45588403

There's many more posts of mine that have positive things to say about Carlton. In fact, I haven't said anything negative about them. Only, I'm not delusional to think the way you do and am realistic enough to see our flaws and take a logical way of addressing them so we become a dominant force in the future. You're clearly impatient and think that it's all just going to magically fall in place. I'll ask you how are we going to use the draft as a stepping stone for our development if we give up pick#4?

You don't even know our ladder position!

Reference to the cooking ad was because you said I was cooked. You clearly had no rebuttal so resorted to petty attacks. LOL.

I just told you that Hawthorn's ENTIRE 2008 premiership team was built through drafting apart from ONE PLAYER: Trent Croad.

Either way ....

 

[Blue Flame]

Tomlinson is going to be a big bodied mid at carlton. Marchbank is upto 70% heading to blues. Have a little faith in the direction of the club. I think we'll be pleasantly surprised

Inside info or your thoughts?

How does he go in the middle? Clearance king, tagger, or runner?

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Because of age?

Maybe we see him as someone who could play until 32......That would give us 9 years.

Maybe we aren't that scientific yet, but you have to look how many years you may get out of a body, as much as how young one may be.....It's relative.

Remember Brent Harvey v nick Stevens?

 

[HARKER]

Remember Brent Harvey v nick Stevens?

Yeah. One body stood up to the test of time and the other body will be doing time.

 

[HBF]

Not advocating anything re. Tomlinson but he'd play a very different role to Silvagni.

He'd be wing/half forward.............a player that can run all day along with CCurnow.........Flexibility is the key.

Agreed Harks. Tomlinson will play further up the ground. Having him and C.Curnow potentially playing in the midfield is pretty exciting.

 

[HBF]

We traded #7 two-years ago, Brisbane took Peter Wright at #8 in that draft. Look at his progress this year, we'd give our left leg to have him on our list now.

Marshall could be like Wright, I'd be trusting the recruiting people to make that call as they will know better than all of us mugs on the internet.

We need more mids, we all know that and are hoping the club will draft some more good ones this year. But we shouldn't cut off our nose to spite our face if this Marshall kid (or another of his height etc) is deemed to be a good long-term investment.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the immediate & urgent shopping list via the draft for us is 4-5 grunt mids (with speed) & 2-3 genuine key position players over the next two years. The order in which they are assembled is irrelevant to me as long as we get 6-8 players of serious quality.

Once we have exhausted all of our efforts (ie. sharp trading of players for draft picks etc) gaining those specific player types only then should we look at our other less pressing needs (eg. small crumbing forward, another back-up ruck etc)

Marshall is nowhere near where Wright was in his draft year imo.

 

[slashin_velvet]

I just told you that Hawthorn's ENTIRE 2008 premiership team was built through drafting apart from ONE PLAYER: Trent Croad.

Either way ....

Except for Stephen Gilham (Port), Brent Guerra (Port and st kilda), Stuart Dew (Port)
Not that I necessarily disagree with the point you're making, but I think the competition trading landscape has changed. When hawks were building, it was less usual for younger players to request a trade.
Prestia a former pick 9, Marchbank, a former pick 6, and Mitchell who has shown his value matches a top 10 pick is worth giving up 4, everitt and touhy

This doesn't mean we shouldn't then be trying to find out way back into the draft.

 

[HBF]

Jesus, HBF. You are jinxing it. I will hold you personally responsible if we don't get all three of those players.

Fair enough to.

 

[Coona Blues]

Tomlinson is going to be a big bodied mid at carlton. Marchbank is upto 70% heading to blues. Have a little faith in the direction of the club. I think we'll be pleasantly surprised

Absolutely re Tomlinson, makes perfect sense. He has been prolific when given the role at NEAFL level, but can't get a look in
at AFL level with their star studded midfield. We need immediate help "inside" for Cripppa, not an 18yo kid who is going to take
2-3 years to be physically ready to lend a hand. Makes perfect sense at a reasonable price.

While Marchbank will be costly, he makes perfect sense. Now the rank and file are largely convinced Weitering can be just as valuable
up forward we can fast track the rebuild with this combination, and "fill up" on young mids with other picks we have or can acquire.

While Murphy and Gibbs are capable "inside" players, they would be so much more potent if freed up for outside/link up duties.