Toast 2017 Doig Medal Thread

[Bradesmaen]

No you can't.

Once you take out his frees against he averaged 2.5 clangers a game. He would need to average less than 5 kicks a game for your dumb statement to be true.

Clangers don't record missed kicks. Maybe before posting stats you should understand them first.

 

[estibador]

Clangers don't record missed kicks. Maybe before posting stats you should understand them first.

You're right, my bad.

He has a season disposal efficiency of 68% though, so even if we assume every single ineffective disposal was a kick he still comes out at better than 55%.

 

[estibador]

I like Brad Hill a lot, but it’s probably not too unfair a comment to make that he’s had poor kicking efficiency for a large part of the year.

No doubt. That's different from exaggerating that he misses more than he hits though.

 

[Righteo]

It's pointless trying to persuade Brades otherwise, the confirmation bias is just too strong. It's an argument that will come to an impasse every single time.

 

[Bradesmaen]

You're right, my bad.

He has a season disposal efficiency of 68% though, so even if we assume every single ineffective disposal was a kick he still comes out at better than 55%.

Are you sure?

 

[Scham]

He won the Doig on the back of great effort and team play, not on his skill.

It's fair to say that his disposal wasn't great and got worse as the season went on and was one part of his game that didn't improve from last year but by the same token it was no where near as bad as some are making out either.

 

[meima]

He won the Doig on the back of great effort and team play, not on his skill.

It's fair to say that his disposal wasn't great and got worse as the season went on and was one part of his game that didn't improve from last year but by the same token it was no where near as bad as some are making out either.

To be fair his disposal look very ordinary after Langdon go down with injury.Once other team put more pressure on him his kicking is no where near the standard when he is with hawthorn.

 

[Scham]

If Shane Kersten can out poll Lachie Weller who played every single game then I really hope Weller can step up majorly next season. Blakely has so hopefully the 2nd amigo can too.

Kerstin had a good season and so too did Weller when you consider he was being played out of position in a newly learned role. He'll improve out of sight once he's moved further up the ground into his natural role of, to use Ross's term, centre forward.

 

[wayToGo_]

Kerstin had a good season and so too did Weller when you consider he was being played out of position in a newly learned role. He'll improve out of sight once he's moved further up the ground into his natural role of, to use Ross's term, centre forward.

Yeah he's become a whipping boy but he had some good patches of football, as did McCarthy, as did Tabs - but all three had some incredibly poor games as well. For the moment I'm backing in all three to improve in 2018 - perhaps our forward line will play more as a team and less as 6 distinct individuals next year? And given Apeness is still on our list next year I'm backing him in to get a run at it this year too.

 

[Kenny_01]

Brad Hills kicking has a lot to do with our hard he works. Do people actually realise it's a lot harder to pin point passes after sprinting 80m to be in a position to receive the ball in space?

If he runs less his kicking will improve. He is naturally a very nice neat kick.


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[StingBitten]

Kerstin had a good season and so too did Weller when you consider he was being played out of position in a newly learned role. He'll improve out of sight once he's moved further up the ground into his natural role of, to use Ross's term, centre forward.

Kersten had a good season? Did ok in flashes but lacked consistency for the majority, struggled to impact most games.

 

[wayToGo_]

Brad Hills kicking has a lot to do with our hard he works. Do people actually realise it's a lot harder to pin point passes after sprinting 80m to be in a position to receive the ball in space?

But but but... On his AFL video game from 1999 they can run at full tilt the whole field and still kick at full efficiency. No excuses Brad.

 

[Bender571]

A vote comparison of the last 3 years is interesting.

2015
1st — Aaron Sandilands (282 votes)
2nd — David Mundy (277)
3rd — Stephen Hill (261)
4th — Nat Fyfe (260)
5th — Michael Walters (244)
6th — Lachie Neale (239)
7th — Lee Spurr (223)
8th — Danyle Pearce (217)
9th — Chris Mayne (202)
10th — Luke McPharlin (198)

2016
1. Lachie Neale 200
2. Stephen Hill 170
3. Michael Walters 152
4. Matthew Pavlich 118
5. Lee Spurr 116
6. Chris Mayne 99
7. Hayden Ballantyne 85
8. Michael Barlow 80
9. David Mundy 75
10. Tommy Sheridan 65

2017
1. Bradley Hill - 158
2. Lachie Neale - 135
3. Nat Fyfe - 132
4. David Mundy - 128
5. Michael Walters - 123
6. Joel Hamling - 119
7. Michael Johnson - 110
8. Connor Blakely - 92
9. Stephen Hill - 88
10. Shane Kersten - 63

I believe all years used the same criteria (5 coaches ranking every player 0-5), with 2015 having an extra 2 games to poll votes in.

 

[StingBitten]

Brad Hills kicking has a lot to do with our hard he works. Do people actually realise it's a lot harder to pin point passes after sprinting 80m to be in a position to receive the ball in space?

If he runs less his kicking will improve. He is naturally a very nice neat kick.


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I’m thrilled he won the medal, met him twice both before and whilst he’s been a footballer and is so casual, humble and energetic.

He has huge upside and his kicking efficiency is probably more due to team structure than ability.

From a ‘big picture’ perspective however it’s a little alarming how easy he’s won with such low efficiency - especially as there’s been a high level of collective criticism regarding a low coaching priority for effective disposals. It may explain why D. Pearce has played so many clubs, and leads to suggestions that skills aren’t the core component of training.

I think those questions are fair in being asked.

 

[estibador]

From a ‘big picture’ perspective however it’s a little alarming how easy he’s won with such low efficiency - especially as there’s been a high level of collective criticism regarding a low coaching priority for effective disposals. It may explain why D. Pearce has played so many clubs, and leads to suggestions that skills aren’t the core component of training.

I think those questions are fair in being asked.

The vote count above is illuminating. He wouldn't have even made the top 10 in a good year.

So it's not like the MC were giving him tons of votes despite his ordinary disposal at times, it's more a case of him polling modestly and that being enough to be the best of a bad bunch.

 

[wayToGo_]

Voting system has clearly changed since 2015 - can't compare based on number of votes.

 

[estibador]

Voting system has clearly changed since 2015 - can't compare based on number of votes.

Nope, still the same. The coaches just didn't think our players were worthy of many votes this year.

Sandi wins

Following each match, the five club coaches give each player a vote from zero to five based on the player¹s performance.

Hill wins

Senior coach Ross Lyon and four other members of the Fremantle coaching staff were involved in the voting process, with each coach allocating up to five votes per player.

 

[Allikat]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few games where everyone got 0 votes. We had some shockers

 

[wayToGo_]

Nope, still the same. The coaches just didn't think our players were worthy of many votes this year.

That makes me [sad emoji]

 

[Scham]

How many votes did Fyfe get in the AFL Coaches Award compared to Bradley?

 

[estibador]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few games where everyone got 0 votes. We had some shockers

Yeah I can't imagine the coaches feeling too generous after games like the Sydney debacle.

 

[Mincho]

Congrats to Hill - but as others have mentioned - not really thrilled with the make up of the top 10.

We have a LONG way to go before we are in the conversation for contending.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Brad Hills kicking has a lot to do with our hard he works. Do people actually realise it's a lot harder to pin point passes after sprinting 80m to be in a position to receive the ball in space?

If he runs less his kicking will improve. He is naturally a very nice neat kick.


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What about those 10m runs and kicks.. and not even sprinting. His kicking action is ok, he gives it too much air, but his ability to read where a player is running and put it on their chest is the part he fails at.

 

[SHill Shall]

The vote count above is illuminating. He wouldn't have even made the top 10 in a good year.

So it's not like the MC were giving him tons of votes despite his ordinary disposal at times, it's more a case of him polling modestly and that being enough to be the best of a bad bunch.

I have now better educated myself on the voting system. It’s not 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 as in a Brownlow system but rather every player gets an allocation.

In my view it vindicates the coaches assessments that we have far fewer elite performances (and thus votes cast) in years where our results are poor. So 2016 is far more comparable to 2017 given our form.

 

[Carson Dial]

Kersten had a good season? Did ok in flashes but lacked consistency for the majority, struggled to impact most games.

Seems to be a common problem with more than a few of our players...can that be coached out of a player?