2017 Draft thread

[chopperduck]

I like Rayner as a player, but not sure he is the type we need. I really do think he will end up more of a Stringer type, playing forward and impacting from there. will have his rotation in the middle no doubt, but id rather go for a bit of toe with LDU then try add some midfield depth woth Worpel. Would give Worpel, Matho and Berry as our hard nosed ball winning type mids in 5+ years.

Think players like Worpel get crucified for not having the complete package. The top players of the comp are just as good outside the contest as they are in. Worpel is very much inside, but when you are that good at winning the ball i think you can work with it. Id still rather have someone getting first hands to the ball, our midfield and clearance domination of Freo was telling.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Located in the old Fitzroy zone and the same junior club of Paul Roos.

And Chris Smith.

 

[jackess]

I like Rayner as a player, but not sure he is the type we need. I really do think he will end up more of a Stringer type, playing forward and impacting from there. will have his rotation in the middle no doubt, but id rather go for a bit of toe with LDU then try add some midfield depth woth Worpel. Would give Worpel, Matho and Berry as our hard nosed ball winning type mids in 5+ years.

Think players like Worpel get crucified for not having the complete package. The top players of the comp are just as good outside the contest as they are in. Worpel is very much inside, but when you are that good at winning the ball i think you can work with it. Id still rather have someone getting first hands to the ball, our midfield and clearance domination of Freo was telling.

I also think with drafting midfielders unless they're something special you want them to have a second position to fall back on so even if they don't make it as a midfielder they can become a good backman or forward. You risk picking up and Aish who isn't good enough to be an AFL midfielder but can't play anywhere else so you're stuck with a C grade wingman.

Probably the reason Matho and others have slid down the order and will happen to Worpel.

 

[a mayes ing]

I also think with drafting midfielders unless they're something special you want them to have a second position to fall back on so even if they don't make it as a midfielder they can become a good backman or forward. You risk picking up and Aish who isn't good enough to be an AFL midfielder but can't play anywhere else so you're stuck with a C grade wingman.

Probably the reason Matho and others have slid down the order and will happen to Worpel.

The reason he has slid down is because the players he is competing against are A grade in Beams, Rocky etc.

 

[jackess]

The reason he has slid down is because the players he is competing against are A grade in Beams, Rocky etc.

You might want to refer to the thread title.

 

[Hollow Knight]

You might want to refer to the thread title.

Maybe you're on his ignore list.

 

[jackess]

Did somebody just post in this thread?

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

Located in the old Fitzroy zone and the same junior club of Paul Roos.

Very much to do with it via Fitzroy.

I am involved with a club that has links to this junior club.
Another is Brett Chandler - current football manager.

Aside from historical links is there more involvement in regards to Fitzroy WLF?
I am not aware of any.

To get back on draft track the club is a very successful junior club, that has a strong record of players drafted in recent years - Hardwick, Tom Phillips, McLarty, etc

 

[Hollow Knight]

And blynd_freddie IIRC.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I am involved with a club that has links to this junior club.
Another is Brett Chandler - current football manager.

Aside from historical links is there more involvement in regards to Fitzroy WLF?
I am not aware of any.

To get back on draft track the club is a very successful junior club, that has a strong record of players drafted in recent years - Hardwick, Tom Phillips, McLarty, etc

Nothing more recent apart from a number of guys having joined Fitzroy in the amateurs. I was vaguely aware of the Phillips connection. Did Ed play there as well before moving on to CGS/the Chargers?

 

[jjami15]

I like Rayner as a player, but not sure he is the type we need. I really do think he will end up more of a Stringer type, playing forward and impacting from there. will have his rotation in the middle no doubt, but id rather go for a bit of toe with LDU then try add some midfield depth woth Worpel. Would give Worpel, Matho and Berry as our hard nosed ball winning type mids in 5+ years.

Think players like Worpel get crucified for not having the complete package. The top players of the comp are just as good outside the contest as they are in. Worpel is very much inside, but when you are that good at winning the ball i think you can work with it. Id still rather have someone getting first hands to the ball, our midfield and clearance domination of Freo was telling.

The Rayner LDU debate will be interesting over the duration and I personally change which one I feel we should pick quit frequently but the next few weeks games are televised and look forward to seeing more of them.

Agree with your sentiments about Worpel. One of the BF phantom draft guys likened him to Brad Sewell who I really admired. Those players who can work at the coal face and give their all for the team are awesome IMO. As a young team and for where are at I think his type is exactly what we need and bring some steel to our midfield. Just on those three you would know you would be sore and sorry at the end of a game. Hope we call his name out.

 

[Simba Moyo]

If it's a Rayner v LDU debate, then I'm definitely in the Rayner corner - at least for right now. As great as it would be to bring in a big bodied pure mid, Rayner's x-factor is just too hard to pass up. His agility and explosion from contests is just so exciting, and would be a great addition when resting in the forwardline with Hipwood, Schache etc. I understand some might be weary getting a player that might play 70/30 predominately forward but I see him playing plenty of midfield minutes as he starts to gain better endurance over time in an AFL system. He was the captain of the AFL Academy too I believe

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

And blynd_freddie IIRC.

Of course how could I have forgotten the greatest player produced by the club.

Nothing more recent apart from a number of guys having joined Fitzroy in the amateurs. I was vaguely aware of the Phillips connection. Did Ed play there as well before moving on to CGS/the Chargers?

Yes Ed is another from the club.

 

[carnthemlions]

If it's a Rayner v LDU debate, then I'm definitely in the Rayner corner - at least for right now. As great as it would be to bring in a big bodied pure mid, Rayner's x-factor is just too hard to pass up. His agility and explosion from contests is just so exciting, and would be a great addition when resting in the forwardline with Hipwood, Schache etc. I understand some might be weary getting a player that might play 70/30 predominately forward but I see him playing plenty of midfield minutes as he starts to gain better endurance over time in an AFL system. He was the captain of the AFL Academy too I believe

Without knowing much about either player, I find it hard to see all this talk about Rayner being more than just that unless his endurance has improved significantly by the combine.
See:

Matho ran a 12.4 beep at the national combine.



TAC Cup testing data only begun to be recorded in 2010 - so the year after Dusty was drafted.

FWIW Rayner ran an 11.13 beep last year and has never been an endurance athlete.

 

[Simba Moyo]

Without knowing much about either player, I find it hard to see all this talk about Rayner being more than just that unless his endurance has improved significantly by the combine.
See:

Mathieson also notoriously had a bad beep test and just came off a team high 32 possession game. Rayner averages ~20 possessions and 2 goals a game, I think that's pretty good especially considering about half of those are contested and something that can definitely be built upon

Given his other traits, I'm not worried about him being able to develop the required stamina to be a top AFL performer

 

[carnthemlions]

Mathieson also notoriously had a bad beep test and just came off a team high 32 possession game. Rayner averages ~20 possessions and 2 goals a game, I think that's pretty good especially considering about half of those are contested and something that can definitely be built upon

Given his other traits, I'm not worried about him being able to develop the required stamina to be a top AFL performer

Mathieson's draft stock also dropped a lot as a result, and probably rightly so. Players can overcome endurance issues, but when you've got the no.1 pick you don't want to take that kind of risk. Mids with proven endurance issues just don't go top 5 or even top 10.

Look at it this way- Patrick Cripps was drafted outside the top 10 due to concerns re: his fitness + endurance. He ran a 13.2 beep test. If Rayner's beep test is still in the 11s, there's no way he'll be in contention at our pick come draft time.

 

[briztoon]

 

[briztoon]

 

[briztoon]

 

[briztoon]

 

[briztoon]

 

[briztoon]

And one for next year.

 

[Simba Moyo]

Mathieson's draft stock also dropped a lot as a result, and probably rightly so. Players can overcome endurance issues, but when you've got the no.1 pick you don't want to take that kind of risk. Mids with proven endurance issues just don't go top 5 or even top 10.

Look at it this way- Patrick Cripps was drafted outside the top 10 due to concerns re: his fitness + endurance. He ran a 13.2 beep test. If Rayner's beep test is still in the 11s, there's no way he'll be in contention at our pick come draft time.

Completely agree, 11's is pretty bloody terrible and no doubt he would be working on it as recruiters will be putting a lot of onus on that to improve. I'm just of the stance that while he will never be a great endurance athlete, it can be to a point where it won't be an issue as a midfielder long-term. Especially when looking at his other attributes I'd happily take him at pick 1 at this stage

 

[WA Lion]

Evening All, I don't know if this article was shared on here but I found it interesting that Luke Power specifically highlighted to Ballenden "what are you doing when you don't have the ball? How are you contributing?"

This is what impressed me the most on Sunday - he demonstrated that he actually has a genuine footy IQ. He was always well positioned in defence and knew when to leave his man to spoil. He also positioned himself very well behind play, often placing himself exactly where WA wanted to go with their 'get out' kick (hence the high number of intercept marks).

I don't see him as a long term KPD but I think he will be better for the experience, and while I haven't contributed to this board for a while (got frustrated with the negativity) I have been keeping an eye on the draft thread. I think a lot of posters have been a bit harsh on him and haven't taken in to account that he hasn't been in teams conducive to performing well as a key forward.

Watching the Allies live at the ground, I cannot emphasise enough how difficult it must be to be a KPF in that team and play well!!

I completely agree with many posters that Midfield pace and ball use is a priority, but if we don't match a bid for this kid we will live to regret it, of that I have no doubt. I would happily give up the Port pick to get him, and use picks 1, 18 and any possible PP to get midfielders in.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-06-27/draft-hopeful-steps-back-to-go-forward

 

[JasRulz63]

What may also factor into our decision is that a lot of the top rated players on draft boards are Vic Metro players. Billy Longer aside, who's father lived on the Gold Coast when he was drafted who he supposedly often visited, I can't remember us using a top 20 pick on a Vic Metro player recently. We've used picks in the 20's on players like McStay, Lester and Karnezis however.