Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[HARKER]

Can someone please tell me there is a Jack Graham in the draft this year and we can recruit him?

You weren't happy with Macreadie, Williamson and Polson?

 

[Soapy V]

Want to see at least 3 starting 22 midfielders added during this trade / draft period.

We gotta stiffen the midfield up asap

"at least"

 

[My name geoff]

You weren't happy with Macreadie, Williamson and Polson?

Love those 3. particularly Macreadie. Graham is the exact player we need though. Big bodied mid who gets to contests, hustles and tackles hard and also kicks goals.

 

[Soapy V]

Love those 3. particularly Macreadie. Graham is the exact player we need though. Big bodied mid who gets to contests, hustles and tackles hard and also kicks goals.

Hunter Clark?

 

[Funk]

I hope Gibbs stays. If he requests trade to Adelaide, all I want is for Carlton to play hardball. The equivalent of two good players is needed. Two first round draft picks is a minimum.

Not happy with the way players such as Zach Tuohy can walk out of Carlton and the club gets little in return. It has to be a win for Carlton if any other established player walks. Carlton built Zach Tuohy up from a nothing player from Ireland and to basically get Smedts (so far a dud) and swapping a 2nd rounder for a late 1st round pick for him is not a win for the Blues.

“It was sub-par, very sub-par. Almost insulting,” he said of the money Carlton offered Tuohy last year. He was offered a 3 year contract... and this is what he has to say about it? Would be interesting to know the exact difference Geelong offered him financially. I think it would be similar and it is a case he was trophy hunting, and I hope it comes back to haunt him and Gibbs should he think of trophy hunting as well. Trophies don't often end up at where you think they will.

Not one pundit from this year in the media experts or last year tipped Bulldogs or Tigers.

Many Carlton players were way overpaid for their output.

If your salary cap is full and you are winning wooden spoons it is the only conclusion that can be drawn.

When SOS joined "the new sheriff was in town".

It is my understanding that the club rates each player against other players playing the same position in the league and benchmarks their salary.

If the player thinks they are worth more then they are "encouraged" to check out the market.

Sometimes they leave (Tuohy) and sometimes they come back with their tail between their legs (Levi).

Either way it is better than over paying average players - which then compromises future plans.

Tuohy may have thought the offer was insulting - that may also be due to him being way overpaid previously.

 

[BlueJet]

Isaac Smith was recruited from Redan (outskirts of Ballarat) and Willo is from Ararat

Haha I know mate, I was kidding. [emoji106]
Like many, Issie moved to the 'rat for school.

 

[Sector 7G]

Tuohy may have thought the offer was insulting - that may also be due to him being way overpaid previously.

It was insulting based on what Geelong (and the other suitors) was willing to offer him. He was a Carlton person that didn't want to leave but was pushed out as part of the rebuild.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Hard to call without knowing the actual figures. Trigg (or anyone at Carlton) is always going to say that the offer was fair but the reality is there may have been a sizeable discrepancy between our offer and what Geelong had on the table. If it was $100k a year difference over three years (plus the opportunity to play in finals) would you really blame Tuohy for moving on? That's a lot of cash for a young man with a family.

Exactly and that 100k could be 25% higher. Tuohy made the right decision and so did we.

 

[drewmont4]

pick 3 + (10 if we get it from the crows for gibbs) to GC
2018 1st + Saad to us

win/win?

 

[Blue and Silver]

pick 3 + (10 if we get it from the crows for gibbs) to GC
2018 1st + Saad to us

win/win?

Wait...

2 first rounders for GC 2018 1st rounder?

The price difference does not = Saad

 

[AB_Blue]

pick 3 + (10 if we get it from the crows for gibbs) to GC
2018 1st + Saad to us

win/win?

.........









No

 

[gandaal]

pick 3 + (10 if we get it from the crows for gibbs) to GC
2018 1st + Saad to us

win/win?

Has to be said...

That trade makes me Saad.

 

[drewmont4]

okay more from GC but as it being a stronger draft next year could something like that work?

 

[Mr_Plow]

Not trading out of 2017 draft, thanks.

We invest in every draft in order to have many elite players in the same age range.

 

[Blue__Balls]

pick 3 + (10 if we get it from the crows for gibbs) to GC
2018 1st + Saad to us

win/win?

Lose/Win.

Pick 3 and steak-knives for Saad and GC 2018 first is fine if there is someone at 3 they really like (keeping in mind they already have Pick 2). They may like the idea of LDU + Rayner, and they may back themselves to have a slightly better year in 2018. Also not sure on their academy stocks for next year.

But giving up Pick 3 and 10 for a future Pick 2-6 and Saad is insane.

 

[PrinceCharles]

pick 3 + (10 if we get it from the crows for gibbs) to GC
2018 1st + Saad to us

win/win?

Starting to think you're trolling with some of the suggestions you come up with...

 

[Quazza]

if nothing else (and really, there's plenty more) the Tige's showed just how important recruiting outside of the draft can be. From 13th to 1st (An AFL record), with Caddy, Prestia and Nank being a huge part of it

 

[RudyBlue]

I really like this.
Imagine making a statement that every year CFC will rookie list a player from the Northern Blues no matter what. It would make a lot of VFL, WAFL and SANFL players take note.

Love it.

I'd like to see a bidding system (like FS/academies) for state league players that are playing for your affiliate

 

[The Grover]

Anyone have concerns with playing Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman and Jones all together in the back 6.

I see these 4 in a lot of posters best 22's.

For me it is too tall and reduces our run from defence, unless you rotate 1 via the interchange.

 

[ferrisb]

I'd like to see a bidding system (like FS/academies) for state league players that are playing for your affiliate

I quite like that idea, but not sure it will make much difference.

Most state players are picked up late rounds or rookie. Clubs have ample opportunity to pick these players up cheaply, they just choose not to.

 

[Jimmae]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-02/unlucky-cat-could-be-key-to-gaz-deal

Cats and GC trying to use Lang in the Ablett deal; time for us to pounce.

Anyone have concerns with playing Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman and Jones all together in the back 6.

I see these 4 in a lot of posters best 22's.

For me it is too tall and reduces our run from defence, unless you rotate 1 via the interchange.

I'm ok with that combination because of Marchbank's athleticism, though you need someone who can definitely handle an elite small forward in there.

 

[gandaal]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-02/unlucky-cat-could-be-key-to-gaz-deal

Cats and GC trying to use Lang in the Ablett deal; time for us to pounce.

Should we pounce?

My personal opinion is that the competition is so close these days that struggling fringe players from one club are usually going to be struggling fringe players for any other club.

The obvious exception to that rule is talented young players yet to mature (players in their first to fourth year). Even fourth year is a bit of a stretch unless they've shown something.

 

[Jimmae]

Should we pounce?

My personal opinion is that the competition is so close these days that struggling fringe players from one club are usually going to be struggling fringe players for any other club.

The obvious exception to that rule is young players yet to mature (players in their first to fourth year).

That'd be Lang.

I'd make it happen for pick 40.

 

[harmesy 37]

And he huffed and he puffed...


Two first round picks for Gibbs is the maximum, not the minimum. A mid range first rounder (ie. Pick 10) probably gets it done by itself, though we'd undoubtedly ask for a little something extra if we can get away with it. A later first rounder would need to be packaged up with something else (ie. Picks 17 and 27). If we can use those returns to improve our side, we should swallow our pride and pull the trigger. On-trading 17, plus our Pick 38, for Kennedy, Smith and a salary dump is good trading, and we take 27 to the draft for someone like Tim Kelly. Gibbs & 38 = Kennedy, Smith, Kelly & Griffen gets the tick of approval from me.

Tuohy didn't walk, he was pushed. Widely accepted that we identified him as a tradeable asset and lowballed his contract to give him a nudge out the door. Used him to secure the first rounder that GWS wanted for Marchbank and Pickett, and if we'd pushed Geelong for a higher pick GWS would still have been taking it off us.

Winning individual trades is a very simplistic approach. Once you'd identified your target (ie. Marchbank and Pickett in 2016, Kennedy and Smith in 2017?) the next step is to do what you need to do to get your players across. Look at our list and picks now, and compare them to what we have after the trade period - that's when you can assess whether we've come out ahead.

I agree with most of your post except for the bit where you say Gibbs is worth only one first rounder. Gibbs is elite talent and should be valued as such. Elite disposal skills and for all you know a pick 15 or 17 for him may be a dud. You want a guarantee of quality coming in the door for trading out one of your top 3 players.

 

[Faz 2000]

If we wind up with picks 3 and 10 this off-season we take them to the draft and grab two fantastic midfielders! No WAY we're moving either off elsewhere, unless it's for a star.