Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Moody Blue]

Thomas was resigned because the Club believes he has a role to play - pretty simple isn't it?

Well can you tell me, because it is a mystery as to what role he can play, other than clogging up the list. If he has potential as a coach then sign him up.

 

[Moody Blue]

Depth depth and more depth
That’s the reason plus he is a great clubman
That’s answered your question I hope

For $800,000 per year i would be the best club man of all time. I suppose that is all he could do for the first 2 years of his contract.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

For $800,000 per year i would be the best club man of all time. I suppose that is all he could do for the first 2 years of his contract.

So he should be cut because you're upset he was paid too much a few years ago? That's some rubbish decision making

 

[Gethelred]

I'm not going to try and play down the importance of kicking goals and high scores but it's not the be all and end all.

This year Richmond were 4th ranked with 331 while Adelaide were top with 395. Last year it was the Dogs 7th with 311 to Adelaide's 396. This definitely appears to tie in with the ongoing trends of the past couple of decades regarding the

In the last 17 years the premier kicked the most goals of any club 8 times (47%); that's the 2013-15 Hawks, 2011 & 2007 Geelong, 2006 Eagles and Brisbane in 2002 & 2003. I think we can all agree that they were pretty decent teams at the time too.

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Making the most of opportunities will make a huge difference. I don't see it so much as having a top 6 or 7 who kick 200-250 between them but rather having a larger number of players hit the scoreboard and spread the load. Instead of the top 6 kicking say 65% of the teams goals I'd rather have 12 guys make a more equal contribution. Maybe McKay, Casboult & Wright kick between 30 and 40 each, guys like Charlie and Jack can get to 25, then you have a heap in that 15 to 20 bracket with Cuningham, Murphy, Cripps, Kennedy, Kreuz, Samo, Lang, Pickett, Fisher, Ed and possibly even a new draft pick. Throw in a handful here and there from Simmo, Willo, Mullet, Weits, etc and the tally starts rising. We kicked an average of 11 a game this year, 3 below the competition average. If we can avoid blowouts like Sydney, Geelong and Port, kicking and additional 2 goals a game will do us a world of good considering our defensive systems (and hoping that losing Doc doesn't obliterate that).

I have a question about methodology.

Are the tallies adjusted for finals appearances? I mean, would the listed goals kicked include the goals kicked in finals?

It doesn't matter immensely, just gives us an indication as to how many goals we actually need during the season proper to contend, even in a defensive system.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Cam is the new Cripps.

In terms of height confusion

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[Blue__Balls]

these stats taken from foxsports site..

Nick Holman (Central Districts)

Age: 22

Position: Midfielder

2017 SANFL average numbers: Kicked 19 goals and averaged 26 disposals, 15 contested possessions, 7 score involvements, 7 inside 50s, 6 tackles and 127 Champion Data ranking points from 20 games.

THE nine-game player at Carlton has spent the past two seasons at Central Districts and thrived. With an impressive workrate, as well as strong tackling ability and intensity, Holman was named in the best 15 times this year and was ranked third in the competition for average disposals. Still has age on his side too, which might appeal to an AFL club.


Would there be any chance on getting Holman back, did really like this kid when he was on our list.

SOS doesn't strike me as the type to go back to a player after delisting them.

 

[Soapy V]

For $800,000 per year i would be the best club man of all time. I suppose that is all he could do for the first 2 years of his contract.

I wasn't happy with getting him or his deal but having him for another year makes some sense. There is only so many we can cut. We lack experience and he is apparently liked and is good with the younger players. He will be depth only but can be an on field coach at reserves level which we need.

Easy delisting/retirement at the end of 2018 when we bring in another group of talented kids. I would assume he's on close to minimum wage as well.

 

[Gethelred]

How does a 197cm O'Shea possibly take the place of Docherty?
If anyone can give us that run out of the back-line and a good kick-out option, it may be Williamson, but it would be a shame to be playing him there, as he seems to be so much better suited to working space around the ground.

I still can't work out our interest in thinking about rookie-ing O'Shea.

Could just be as simple as Rowe, ASOS and Marchbank going down during the season, leaving O'Shea as our main KPD in the reserves with any experience. If we wish to promote the Jones' of the world based on performance, we then need to be able to have someone to step into their role in the VFL, if we're using it to develop young players like Macreadie, who could really do without being monstered by a VFL key forward nowhere near ones selection purely due to strength.

The VFL still has a role to play, despite a number of people - not you - cracking it about appointments like Palmers last year, when his inputs were valuable for a single year in keeping our poor midfield at both levels afloat, even good enough to win multiple games on the trot early on, before injuries/promotions took their toll.

 

[HARKER]

Could just be as simple as Rowe, ASOS and Marchbank going down during the season, leaving O'Shea as our main KPD in the reserves with any experience. If we wish to promote the Jones' of the world based on performance, we then need to be able to have someone to step into their role in the VFL, if we're using it to develop young players like Macreadie, who could really do without being monstered by a VFL key forward nowhere near ones selection purely due to strength.
The VFL still has a role to play, despite a number of people - not you - cracking it about appointments like Palmers last year, when his inputs were valuable for a single year in keeping our poor midfield at both levels afloat, even good enough to win multiple games on the trot early on, before injuries/promotions took their toll.

The VFL plays a huge role as for the proof that the last 5 AFL Grand Final winners have also had their reserves team playing Grand Finals............and this is sort of my point, as the squads have to be balanced and even without O'Shea, we have a very, very tall squad.

Had Wallace on SEN yesterday bleating that the Dogs have too many ~195 with 11 or 12............and us?
Jones, Weitering, Marchbank, Macreadie, Glass-McCasker, ASilvagni, Casboult, McKay, Kerr, Kreuzer, Phillips, Lobbe, Rowe = 13 players, so far.

33% of our squad are ~195cm+. (Rucks and KP players)
Now, that just seems to be too many for me, whichever way one wants to sell it.

 

[Stamos]

The VFL plays a huge role as for the proof that the last 5 AFL Grand Final winners have also had their reserves team playing Grand Finals............and this is sort of my point, as the squads have to be balanced and even without O'Shea, we have a very, very tall squad.

Had Wallace on SEN yesterday bleating that the Dogs have too many ~195 with 11 or 12............and us?
Jones, Weitering, Marchbank, Macreadie, Glass-McCasker, ASilvagni, Casboult, McKay, Kerr, Kreuzer, Phillips, Lobbe, Rowe = 13 players, so far.

33% of our squad are ~195cm+. (Rucks and KP players)
Now, that just seems to be too many for me, whichever way one wants to sell it.

Marchy and ASOS aren't 195, but Cripps is

 

[Jimmae]

SOS doesn't strike me as the type to go back to a player after delisting them.

Blaine Boekhorst doesn't like this.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Blaine Boekhorst doesn't like this.

Of course he doesn't

It's a good point you make, though I think there's a definite difference between delisting a player and telling him you may rookie him, compared to delisting a player and then redrafting them two years later on some good state level form.

That being said, Holman was a bit of a surprise delisting if I remember right. Some speculation it was off-field stuff? If he's matured a bit and wants another crack i'd be ok with looking at him, though he may not be keen to come back to the club that cut him loose in the first place.

 

[HARKER]

Marchy and ASOS aren't 195, but Cripps is

But they play KP and Cripps doesn't.
Charlie is also listed at 194, but I don't think he's that tall, but we are a very tall squad whichever way you look at things.

How many talls do you really need? FB, CHB, R, CHF and FF. We have talls in Charlie and JSilvagni playing forward also and a 192cm Plowman back.
We....are.....tall.

 

[Jimmae]

Of course he doesn't

It's a good point you make, though I think there's a definite difference between delisting a player and telling him you may rookie him, compared to delisting a player and then redrafting them two years later on some good state level form.

That being said, Holman was a bit of a surprise delisting if I remember right. Some speculation it was off-field stuff? If he's matured a bit and wants another crack i'd be ok with looking at him, though he may not be keen to come back to the club that cut him loose in the first place.

He didn't win enough footy. That was it, and I don't think he's moved the needle enough since then.

 

[Aphrodite]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...t/news-story/515d3d04c4fc9df45e990e7ed84caafc

CARLTON could consider giving former Port Adelaide defender Cam O’Shea an AFL lifeline in either the national or rookie draft in the wake of Sam Docherty’s ACL injury.
It’s believed the 25-year-old O’Shea has attracted the interest of several AFL clubs, with the Blues particularly keen on bringing through another mature-age defender.

O’Shea, who played with Carlton’s VFL affiliate the Northern Blues last season, is one of a number of ex-AFL players who have been training with the club over the last fortnight.

 

[Aphrodite]

For $800,000 per year i would be the best club man of all time. I suppose that is all he could do for the first 2 years of his contract.

Were is 800K coming from?

Are you by any chance privy to player contracts Moody.

The Club believes Daisy has a roll to play hence why he was re-signed for another year.

 

[Zlatan]

But they play KP and Cripps doesn't.
Charlie is also listed at 194, but I don't think he's that tall, but we are a very tall squad whichever way you look at things.

How many talls do you really need? FB, CHB, R, CHF and FF. We have talls in Charlie and JSilvagni playing forward also and a 192cm Plowman back.
We....are.....tall.

The defence is where I’m most concerned about the height. We’ve gone way overboard with how many tall defenders we select on game day. Unless there’s extenuating circumstances, we should be starting with Weitering, Marchbank and Plowman. Height, agility and intercept marking. And for this season, if Williamson plays half back, that’s another 188cm right there.

For all his reasonable form after the positional change, Jones should be in the seconds with ASOS and Rowe until form / injury allows him in, and only to replace one of the three I mentioned above.

 

[Scholz Supremacy]

Cam O'Shea would be a handy pick up.

A solid running defender and has a tiny bit of finals experience under his belt but he can have some very bad brain fades occasionally which will be his biggest issue.

 

[Jimmae]

Were is 800K coming from.

Are you privy to player contracts Moody.

The Club believes Daisy has a roll to play hence why he was resigned for another year.

Sorry Aph, every time someone quotes his salary, it goes up by $100k.

It's $900k now.

 

[Broadside]

For $800,000 per year i would be the best club man of all time. I suppose that is all he could do for the first 2 years of his contract.

he was on $625k which was too much (but good luck to him) and a much lower level now.

 

[Aphrodite]

Sorry Aph, every time someone quotes his salary, it goes up by $100k.

It's $900k now.

$1m now Jimmae

 

[Captain crippa]

For $800,000 per year i would be the best club man of all time. I suppose that is all he could do for the first 2 years of his contract.

He got that contract when the messiah mick was at club
Never would of happened if sos and bolts were around
He’s past it
Let’s move on

 

[Blue__Balls]

The defence is where I’m most concerned about the height. We’ve gone way overboard with how many tall defenders we select on game day. Unless there’s extenuating circumstances, we should be starting with Weitering, Marchbank and Plowman. Height, agility and intercept marking. And for this season, if Williamson plays half back, that’s another 188cm right there.

For all his reasonable form after the positional change, Jones should be in the seconds with ASOS and Rowe until form / injury allows him in, and only to replace one of the three I mentioned above.

Have to politely disagree.

Jones plays a very different role to those three, and it's one that I think we need down back.

Jones on the opposition key forward, Marchbank on the second tall, and Weiters responsible for the third tall as well as supporting the other two. Plowman could actually be used in Docherty's role without too much trouble I think, playing as the extra man in defense.

Still leaves room for a couple of small/medium defenders who can drive off half back. Pick two of Simmo, Byrne, Williamson and Mullett based on form and balance. The others are either playing on the wing, off the bench or working their arses off in the VFL.

 

[JustaBattler]

Well can you tell me, because it is a mystery as to what role he can play, other than clogging up the list. If he has potential as a coach then sign him up.

i dont think SOS or Bolton are the type that 'carry' any player - if you want any evidence regarding why i put this notion - see delistings since they took charge.

Therefore starting with this proposition I speculate the following ( in response to your question)

I think Mr Thomas probably has one of the best 'playing' football brains at Carlton. Perhaps what he can't do physically anymore is somewhat compensated by what he does do with his thinking. I suspect that like all good coaches Bolton likes to have some players on ground -able to lead on ground as required. Carlton has a plethora of developing young kids - what they do with their youthful energy has to be guided in order to best execute on Bolton's game plan - not all actions on a footy field are in small spaces- many actions require players to run to space to cover or present and the hardest thing to do for many kids is to run at the right times and to the right places - the predictive element of their game is one of the most important aspects of their development - senior players are the ones on field who help.

Thomas 'impact' these days is more cameo in terms of individual acts - perhaps his leadership and organisation is valued in training as well as on ground.

Just a speculation - but if you want confirmation - watch some games from last year and see how much energy is wasted by a lot of younger players running around like headless chooks - it is all part of their learning curve- learning to be in the right place at the right time. I dont think Cripps is in a position to tell outside players where to be when his head is usually busy under a pile of players...Murphy is also not a demonstrative type - and the forward line has been devoid of a general since like forever...and Docherty will be missed as much ( if not more) for his generalship of the backlines...

just my 2cents worth.

 

[G-TRAIN07]

http://www.the42.ie/cillian-mcdaid-galway-football-3698654-Nov2017/