Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[DangerousD]

+++ Long post incoming +++

Still preferring a Whitfield/Hopper or Whitfield/Smith combo over Kelly.

Bear with me here:

Gibbs -> Adelaide
Lever -> WB
Pick 10 + Redpath -> Carlton

Casboult -> Richmond (FA)
Pick 20 -> Carlton (AFL will make it happen)

Pick 10 + Pick 20 -> GWS
Whitfield + Hopper -> Carlton

Pick 38 -> GC
Saad -> Carlton

Pick 56 -> Freo
Balic -> Carlton

2018 First Rounder + Jaksch -> Melbourne
Pick 12 + 2018 First Rounder -> Carlton

OUT: Gibbs, Casboult, Jaksch
IN: Whitfield, Hopper, Redpath, Saad, Balic
DRAFT: 2 (MID), 12 (MID), 74 (RUC)
2018 DRAFT: Swap firsts with Melbourne

The Gibbs deal here makes a lot of sense for all three parties.
If we do ask for a PP, can see us getting knocked back but being looked after with Levi's compo given our forward line state.
Taking Whitfield and Hopper likely allows GWS to retain Kelly if he's prepared to stay.
Saad has tricks, but not the consistency to justify any more than a late second/early third.
Balic rotting at Freo, has only gone down in value but could be an astute recruitment for us.

The Melbourne deal. Here it is. I've given this some thought - would it not be smart to target a club on the rise who think they're just entering their premiership window? Pick 12 in this draft doesn't really help Melbourne in the next few years. Pick 15+ in 2018 (where they'd expect to be) does even less. But a potential top 5 pick next year gives them some serious trade collateral for an established player, and Jaksch is a sweetener with risk, but plenty of upside for them if they can get him focused. We all know he's talented, and can play both ends of the ground - either covers down back to release Tom McDonald into the forward line, or plays forward himself and allows McDonald to go back to defense. And who knows, maybe a chance at finals will get Jaksch out of his malaise. It's a risky move for Melbourne, but has a lot of potential to improve their flag chances in a short period of time. Pick 5 and a young, talented swingman (who needs to find some motivation) for Pick 12 and 15ish.

Enough on Melbourne, how does it work for us. We go into next year knowing that we need to perform well to justify the trade, and it's more likely that Melbourne stumble and cough up Pick 12ish again than it is that they win the flag. Rebuild is pretty much done - we'll be waiting on BSOS and some FA's but the core of the list is now together.

Starting 22
Byrne, Jones, Marchbank
Docherty, Weitering, Saad
Williamson, Whitfield, Cuningham
Kreuzer, Cripps, Hopper
Petrevski-Seton, McKay, Curnow
Silvagni, Redpath, Murphy
I/C: E. Curnow, Fisher, Plowman, Balic

VFL Players
White, ASOS, Simpson
Pickett, Macreadie, Smedts
Palmer, Graham, Boekhorst
Phillips, Kerridge, Polson
Thomas, Rowe, Lamb
Lebois, Kerr, Wright
I/C: Pick 2, Pick 12, Pick 74, Rookies, whoever is left

Looking at that - the only players in the seniors that you're even worried about having to replace in the next 5 years are Jones (Macreadie), Kreuzer (Phillips?), Redpath (Kerr), Murphy (Polson) and Curnow (Pick 2). That essentially means that everyone we pick up from Pick 12 this year onwards is joining a club where they'll have to displace a quality player to get their spot. BSOS and Kerr will be fighting for a spot. Our first rounders through 2019-2022 are going to be fighting for spots. Furthermore, there's some genuine leadership and experience in that VFL side to help develop those kids, and there's depth on every line if we need to cover injuries in the seniors.

As far as list balance goes; the backline is rock-solid and has some genuine speed, the midfield has serious grunt supported by elite ball-users with pace, the forward line is still young, but has three talls with unique skillsets, a medium forward with footy smarts, and a couple of smalls who are great in traffic, and finally, the bench has a good mix of types to allow flexibility on gameday.


Pick my wishlisting apart - I'm ready

Not a fan of Saad and don't think his style of play and efficiency suits Boltons game plan. Would rather take the pick to the draft. We need picks to target a ruck.

Don't want redpath and he'd be silly to come to us. Anyone in his position would know he is just marking time until Harry and Charlie can do it on their own.
Would rather a draft pick or a mid squeezed out like Dale.

Not sure your Dees trade is ideal considering it could be 12+14 for pick 1-6 big risk on our end

 

[DangerousD]

Well thought out post, but to throw a "spanner in the works", Whitfield is contracted until end of 2018. I don't think GWS would let him go, and that stuffs up your whole post I'm afraid. Unless they are not happy about his indiscretion last year with the drug incident, they won't let him go.

If and when they re-sign Kelly there will be some collateral damage. They have good players out of contract but it will come down to priorities.
They might desperately want Hopper and Smith meaning cuts will have to come from somewhere

 

[DangerousD]

Okay, I understand how you see it.

Tell me with the current assets that we have at our disposal, what would you give up for Kelly, that is fair for both clubs

Pick 2 with a swap of 2nd round picks next year.

 

[DangerousD]

Trigg on the AFL website is starting to hint at a 'stop the bleeding' type recruiting strategy at year's end.

Meaning?

 

[Wickzki]

Here's my early August guess at what will happen.

FA Out: Levi Casboult
Picks In: Priority pick (18), Levi Casboult compensation pick (20)

Draft picks: 1, 18*, 20*, 37 (3rd), 55 (4th), 73 (5th)

---

Bryce Gibbs

Jake Lever will end up at the Pies. Crows will get the Pies first and on trade it.

To Carlton: Pick 6* + Pick 17
To Adelaide: Bryce Gibbs + Carlton's 2018 2nd round pick

Values Gibbs as worth slightly more than pick 6. Similar in some ways to the Tuohy trade (trading in a first for our second next year)

---

Josh Kelly nominates Carlton

Carlton trade: Pick 6, Pick 20 (Casboult compensation)

GWS trade: Josh Kelly

Essentially Carlton turns Gibbs, Casboult's compo pick and our 2nd round selection next year into Josh Kelly and pick 17. I can live with that.

---

Harley Balic nominates Carlton

Carlton trade: Blaine Boekhorst + pick 37 + pick 55

Fremantle trade: Harley Balic + pick 41*

Seems like the type of bust for bust trade that is made every year. We wont be using pick 55 so trade looks good for both.

---

Retirements: Dennis Armfield, Sam Rowe, Simon White

Delistings: Dylan Buckley, Daniel Gorringe, Nick Graham, Rhys Palmer

Rookie delistings: Andrew Gallucci, Matthew Korcheck

Designated free agents in: Harrison Wigg, Brandon Jack, Jack Redpath

The truth is you'd probably like one or two more delistings. However, this way I see us drafting to pick 41 in what is considered a shallow draft. Three of those picks are in the top 18. The last is pick 41. This is a good draft. Adding three designated free agents seems to be about right. Don't want to draft after 41 and adding any more DFA seems like a wash.

---

2017 AFL Draft

Pick 1 -- Cameron Rayner
Pick 17 -- Darcy Fogarty (poor carnival saw most drop him to just outside the top ten and the injury will drop his value a bit more. Could become the steal of the draft)
Pick 18 -- James Worpel
Pick 41 -- Jordan Houlahan

Other than Rayner, Fogarty and Worpel I don't know that much about the draft this year. However, Houlahan's game against the Allies impressed me. It's something we could use. Good straight kick for goal.

Feel free to substitute my selections with your favorites.

---

Final 2017-18 List Changes

OUT: Dennis Armfield, Blaine Boekhorst, Dylan Buckley, Levi Casboult, Bryce Gibbs, Nick Graham, Rhys Palmer, Sam Rowe, Simon White
IN: Harley Balic, Brandon Jack, Josh Kelly, Jack Redpath, Harrison Wigg + draft picks (1/17/18/41) - Rayner, Fogarty, Worpel, Houlahan

Summary:

Two of our 2017 best 22 depart in Gibbs and Casboult. You would expect at least 4 of those guys to be locks in our best 22 by the end of next season (Kelly, Rayner, Fogarty, Worpel) with Balic, Jack and Wigg to be thereabouts at worst. Redpath is a placeholder who will give support when the trio of Charlie Curnow, Jack Silvagni and Harry McKay need a rest. Who knows what will come of pick 41. SOS probably has someone else in mind for that spot. Then we have the rookie draft on top of that.

Ultimately, that's a fairly solid mix of trades without affecting SOS's ability to do what he does best and go to the draft.

 

[Arr0w]

Pick 2 with a swap of 2nd round picks next year.

Personally, Kelly will cost more than that

 

[Iamcarlton]

Personally, Kelly will cost more than that

Brisbane will only have to win 1 game and we will take pick 1 our percentage is going to take a big hit in the remaining games . Pick 1 + the swap of 2nd rounders would have to be close imo ?

 

[Arr0w]

Brisbane will only have to win 1 game and we will take pick 1 our percentage is going to take a big hit in the remaining games . Pick 1 + the swap of 2nd rounders would have to be close imo ?

Certainly in the ball park. I just can't see SOS giving up our 1st pick this year or especially next. If Kelly did nominate us, SOS would possible manufacture another option, probably around the compensation we get from Gibbs

So much to play out

 

[Iamcarlton]

Certainly in the ball park. I just can't see SOS giving up our 1st pick this year or especially next. If Kelly did nominate us, SOS would possible manufacture another option, probably around the compensation we get from Gibbs

So much to play out

No chance we are obtaining Kelly without a very high draft pick going out . So unless we are somehow turning the Gibbs compo into another high pick cant see that happening .

 

[Arr0w]

No chance we are obtaining Kelly without a very high draft pick going out . So unless we are somehow turning the Gibbs compo into another high pick cant see that happening .

As I said, so much to play out

 

[8Special K]

Here's my early August guess at what will happen.

FA Out: Levi Casboult
Picks In: Priority pick (18), Levi Casboult compensation pick (20)

Draft picks: 1, 18*, 20*, 37 (3rd), 55 (4th), 73 (5th)

---

Bryce Gibbs

Jake Lever will end up at the Pies. Crows will get the Pies first and on trade it.

To Carlton: Pick 6* + Pick 17
To Adelaide: Bryce Gibbs + Carlton's 2018 2nd round pick

Values Gibbs as worth slightly more than pick 6. Similar in some ways to the Tuohy trade (trading in a first for our second next year)

---

Josh Kelly nominates Carlton

Carlton trade: Pick 6, Pick 20 (Casboult compensation)

GWS trade: Josh Kelly

Essentially Carlton turns Gibbs, Casboult's compo pick and our 2nd round selection next year into Josh Kelly and pick 17. I can live with that.

---

Harley Balic nominates Carlton

Carlton trade: Blaine Boekhorst + pick 37 + pick 55

Fremantle trade: Harley Balic + pick 41*

Seems like the type of bust for bust trade that is made every year. We wont be using pick 55 so trade looks good for both.

---

Retirements: Dennis Armfield, Sam Rowe, Simon White

Delistings: Dylan Buckley, Daniel Gorringe, Nick Graham, Rhys Palmer

Rookie delistings: Andrew Gallucci, Matthew Korcheck

Designated free agents in: Harrison Wigg, Brandon Jack, Jack Redpath

The truth is you'd probably like one or two more delistings. However, this way I see us drafting to pick 41 in what is considered a shallow draft. Three of those picks are in the top 18. The last is pick 41. This is a good draft. Adding three designated free agents seems to be about right. Don't want to draft after 41 and adding any more DFA seems like a wash.

---

2017 AFL Draft

Pick 1 -- Cameron Rayner
Pick 17 -- Darcy Fogarty (poor carnival saw most drop him to just outside the top ten and the injury will drop his value a bit more. Could become the steal of the draft)
Pick 18 -- James Worpel
Pick 41 -- Jordan Houlahan

Other than Rayner, Fogarty and Worpel I don't know that much about the draft this year. However, Houlahan's game against the Allies impressed me. It's something we could use. Good straight kick for goal.

Feel free to substitute my selections with your favorites.

---

Final 2017-18 List Changes

OUT: Dennis Armfield, Blaine Boekhorst, Dylan Buckley, Levi Casboult, Bryce Gibbs, Nick Graham, Rhys Palmer, Sam Rowe, Simon White
IN: Harley Balic, Brandon Jack, Josh Kelly, Jack Redpath, Harrison Wigg + draft picks (1/17/18/41) - Rayner, Fogarty, Worpel, Houlahan

Summary:

Two of our 2017 best 22 depart in Gibbs and Casboult. You would expect at least 4 of those guys to be locks in our best 22 by the end of next season (Kelly, Rayner, Fogarty, Worpel) with Balic, Jack and Wigg to be thereabouts at worst. Redpath is a placeholder who will give support when the trio of Charlie Curnow, Jack Silvagni and Harry McKay need a rest. Who knows what will come of pick 41. SOS probably has someone else in mind for that spot. Then we have the rookie draft on top of that.

Ultimately, that's a fairly solid mix of trades without affecting SOS's ability to do what he does best and go to the draft.

This is probably the best scenario I've seen yet and if it happened I'd kiss SOS's feet. I feel gws will ask for 2 rather than 6 though.

 

[Vamos Juddamente]

Here's my early August guess at what will happen.

FA Out: Levi Casboult
Picks In: Priority pick (18), Levi Casboult compensation pick (20)

Draft picks: 1, 18*, 20*, 37 (3rd), 55 (4th), 73 (5th)

---

Bryce Gibbs

Jake Lever will end up at the Pies. Crows will get the Pies first and on trade it.

To Carlton: Pick 6* + Pick 17
To Adelaide: Bryce Gibbs + Carlton's 2018 2nd round pick

Values Gibbs as worth slightly more than pick 6. Similar in some ways to the Tuohy trade (trading in a first for our second next year)

---

Josh Kelly nominates Carlton

Carlton trade: Pick 6, Pick 20 (Casboult compensation)

GWS trade: Josh Kelly

Essentially Carlton turns Gibbs, Casboult's compo pick and our 2nd round selection next year into Josh Kelly and pick 17. I can live with that.

---

Harley Balic nominates Carlton

Carlton trade: Blaine Boekhorst + pick 37 + pick 55

Fremantle trade: Harley Balic + pick 41*

Seems like the type of bust for bust trade that is made every year. We wont be using pick 55 so trade looks good for both.

---

Retirements: Dennis Armfield, Sam Rowe, Simon White

Delistings: Dylan Buckley, Daniel Gorringe, Nick Graham, Rhys Palmer

Rookie delistings: Andrew Gallucci, Matthew Korcheck

Designated free agents in: Harrison Wigg, Brandon Jack, Jack Redpath

The truth is you'd probably like one or two more delistings. However, this way I see us drafting to pick 41 in what is considered a shallow draft. Three of those picks are in the top 18. The last is pick 41. This is a good draft. Adding three designated free agents seems to be about right. Don't want to draft after 41 and adding any more DFA seems like a wash.

---

2017 AFL Draft

Pick 1 -- Cameron Rayner
Pick 17 -- Darcy Fogarty (poor carnival saw most drop him to just outside the top ten and the injury will drop his value a bit more. Could become the steal of the draft)
Pick 18 -- James Worpel
Pick 41 -- Jordan Houlahan

Other than Rayner, Fogarty and Worpel I don't know that much about the draft this year. However, Houlahan's game against the Allies impressed me. It's something we could use. Good straight kick for goal.

Feel free to substitute my selections with your favorites.

---

Final 2017-18 List Changes

OUT: Dennis Armfield, Blaine Boekhorst, Dylan Buckley, Levi Casboult, Bryce Gibbs, Nick Graham, Rhys Palmer, Sam Rowe, Simon White
IN: Harley Balic, Brandon Jack, Josh Kelly, Jack Redpath, Harrison Wigg + draft picks (1/17/18/41) - Rayner, Fogarty, Worpel, Houlahan

Summary:

Two of our 2017 best 22 depart in Gibbs and Casboult. You would expect at least 4 of those guys to be locks in our best 22 by the end of next season (Kelly, Rayner, Fogarty, Worpel) with Balic, Jack and Wigg to be thereabouts at worst. Redpath is a placeholder who will give support when the trio of Charlie Curnow, Jack Silvagni and Harry McKay need a rest. Who knows what will come of pick 41. SOS probably has someone else in mind for that spot. Then we have the rookie draft on top of that.

Ultimately, that's a fairly solid mix of trades without affecting SOS's ability to do what he does best and go to the draft.

We all like Bryce but if Adelaide offered pick 6 and 17 (with a second rounder coming back to them) for a 28 year I am am not sure their list manager would survive the lynching.

No way Adelaide will offer much more than their first rounder which is why we should hang on to him.

 

[DangerousD]

Personally, Kelly will cost more than that

After seeing the Giants offer the farm last year for pick 2 I'm not so sure.

I see pick 2 as being 80-90% there and think the Giants would love a 10-15 pick upgrade for next year as a sweetener.

 

[DangerousD]

Here's my early August guess at what will happen.

FA Out: Levi Casboult
Picks In: Priority pick (18), Levi Casboult compensation pick (20)

Draft picks: 1, 18*, 20*, 37 (3rd), 55 (4th), 73 (5th)

---

Bryce Gibbs

Jake Lever will end up at the Pies. Crows will get the Pies first and on trade it.

To Carlton: Pick 6* + Pick 17
To Adelaide: Bryce Gibbs + Carlton's 2018 2nd round pick

Values Gibbs as worth slightly more than pick 6. Similar in some ways to the Tuohy trade (trading in a first for our second next year)

---

Josh Kelly nominates Carlton

Carlton trade: Pick 6, Pick 20 (Casboult compensation)

GWS trade: Josh Kelly

Essentially Carlton turns Gibbs, Casboult's compo pick and our 2nd round selection next year into Josh Kelly and pick 17. I can live with that.

---

Harley Balic nominates Carlton

Carlton trade: Blaine Boekhorst + pick 37 + pick 55

Fremantle trade: Harley Balic + pick 41*

Seems like the type of bust for bust trade that is made every year. We wont be using pick 55 so trade looks good for both.

---

Retirements: Dennis Armfield, Sam Rowe, Simon White

Delistings: Dylan Buckley, Daniel Gorringe, Nick Graham, Rhys Palmer

Rookie delistings: Andrew Gallucci, Matthew Korcheck

Designated free agents in: Harrison Wigg, Brandon Jack, Jack Redpath

The truth is you'd probably like one or two more delistings. However, this way I see us drafting to pick 41 in what is considered a shallow draft. Three of those picks are in the top 18. The last is pick 41. This is a good draft. Adding three designated free agents seems to be about right. Don't want to draft after 41 and adding any more DFA seems like a wash.

---

2017 AFL Draft

Pick 1 -- Cameron Rayner
Pick 17 -- Darcy Fogarty (poor carnival saw most drop him to just outside the top ten and the injury will drop his value a bit more. Could become the steal of the draft)
Pick 18 -- James Worpel
Pick 41 -- Jordan Houlahan

Other than Rayner, Fogarty and Worpel I don't know that much about the draft this year. However, Houlahan's game against the Allies impressed me. It's something we could use. Good straight kick for goal.

Feel free to substitute my selections with your favorites.

---

Final 2017-18 List Changes

OUT: Dennis Armfield, Blaine Boekhorst, Dylan Buckley, Levi Casboult, Bryce Gibbs, Nick Graham, Rhys Palmer, Sam Rowe, Simon White
IN: Harley Balic, Brandon Jack, Josh Kelly, Jack Redpath, Harrison Wigg + draft picks (1/17/18/41) - Rayner, Fogarty, Worpel, Houlahan

Summary:

Two of our 2017 best 22 depart in Gibbs and Casboult. You would expect at least 4 of those guys to be locks in our best 22 by the end of next season (Kelly, Rayner, Fogarty, Worpel) with Balic, Jack and Wigg to be thereabouts at worst. Redpath is a placeholder who will give support when the trio of Charlie Curnow, Jack Silvagni and Harry McKay need a rest. Who knows what will come of pick 41. SOS probably has someone else in mind for that spot. Then we have the rookie draft on top of that.

Ultimately, that's a fairly solid mix of trades without affecting SOS's ability to do what he does best and go to the draft.

No way we are getting a band 2-3 compo and a PP.
The same scenario that happened at Melbourne I can see happening with us and Cas.

He will leave with the AFL bumping up his compo getting us pick 19.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Brisbane will only have to win 1 game and we will take pick 1 our percentage is going to take a big hit in the remaining games . Pick 1 + the swap of 2nd rounders would have to be close imo ?

Except Brisbane with a 1-3 record between now and the end of the season will also likely lose percentage...

A 10% swing this late in the year would be almost impossible, you'd think, especially for the two lowest placed teams.

That being said, with winnable games at the Gabba against WB, Gold Coast and North, Brisbane are every chance of passing us on points.

 

[Pater44]

See i think Carlton should go down a different plan...

Seeing how drug cheats are now admired in the community and everyone in the media are rooting for them to win as a feel good story...

WHY??? Why don't the Blues go down the innovative bummers path... think of it...

We have a really young list that if we can speed up their development by drug cheating would be advantageous... Do it, take the ban for two years...

We would then have in 3 years a list with 24 - 25 year old's in their prime (+with the added effect of juicing up, key is keeping their fitness levels up).

That along with high draft picks we receive from being on the bottom... imagine the team we would have...

Just saying... its an idea and a real way to advance the list for a flag tilt in 3 years...!!!!

 

[Arr0w]

See i think Carlton should go down a different plan...

Seeing how drug cheats are now admired in the community and everyone in the media are rooting for them to win as a feel good story...

WHY??? Why don't the Blues go down the innovative bummers path... think of it...

We have a really young list that if we can speed up their development by drug cheating would be advantageous... Do it, take the ban for two years...

We would then have in 3 years a list with 24 - 25 year old's in their prime (+with the added effect of juicing up, key is keeping their fitness levels up).

That along with high draft picks we receive from being on the bottom... imagine the team we would have...

Just saying... its an idea and a real way to advance the list for a flag tilt in 3 years...!!!!

Not even sure how to even start to reply to this post

 

[Wily trout]

Given we need mids and need them quickly, what can we manufacture to get us through for another year or two

1. Kelly: This years first....Casboult comp and a salary dump? Griffen?
2. Griffen: As part of the Kelly deal. Is 30 though and would he add much to us, if he wanted to come?
3. Hopper: Gibbs compensation if Gibbs leaves? How much would Hopper demand though. He may price himself out, ala Prestia.

SPS with a full pre-season may give us another option in the middle.
Fisher may take a couple of years to get body right.

Where can we get a couple of mids from this year and what would it take?

Thinking the same myself in regards to Samo and also Williamson and Cunningham. The growth we have seen with Charlie this year has been huge, and no small part will have been played by Bolts and his coaches. So it is not unrealistic to expect to see some really strong growth in the middle from Samo and Cunningham, with possibly seeing some time in their from Williamson as well. Not for a moment thinking midfield will be strong next year, but it should be stronger and we may find ourselves less exposed when injuries occur. Glass half full mentality of course.

 

[Pater44]

Its a good hypothetical though... Not saying i'd ever condone our club doing this... but if the scum win a flag then maybe it was a good idea after all... HIRD may be a genius

 

[HARKER]

Its a good hypothetical though... Not saying i'd ever condone our club doing this... but if the scum win a flag then maybe it was a good idea after all... HIRD may be a genius

We pull that trick and we wouldn't have a club.
Things could have and maybe should have, been a lot worse for Essendon.

 

[HBF]

Can see why the rumours are about SOS may be cooling on Kelly. May just cost us too much to get him to the club.

 

[HARKER]

Thinking the same myself in regards to Samo and also Williamson and Cunningham. The growth we have seen with Charlie this year has been huge, and no small part will have been played by Bolts and his coaches. So it is not unrealistic to expect to see some really strong growth in the middle from Samo and Cunningham, with possibly seeing some time in their from Williamson as well. Not for a moment thinking midfield will be strong next year, but it should be stronger and we may find ourselves less exposed when injuries occur. Glass half full mentality of course.

Everyone will see things differently and I see this:

SPS: Will be every inch a midfielder. Has all the right traits to become a high quality mid.
Cunningham: A burst player that will have good moments, but can't see him becoming that 25 possession a game player.
Williamson: Looks perfectly suited to play wing (wide mid) Has all the tools to become a wonderful player on the outside.
Fisher is a mid for mine. I don't care how small he is as long as he can get his hands onto the ball. Going to be a good stoppage player.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

See i think Carlton should go down a different plan...

Seeing how drug cheats are now admired in the community and everyone in the media are rooting for them to win as a feel good story...

WHY??? Why don't the Blues go down the innovative bummers path... think of it...

We have a really young list that if we can speed up their development by drug cheating would be advantageous... Do it, take the ban for two years...

We would then have in 3 years a list with 24 - 25 year old's in their prime (+with the added effect of juicing up, key is keeping their fitness levels up).

That along with high draft picks we receive from being on the bottom... imagine the team we would have...

Just saying... its an idea and a real way to advance the list for a flag tilt in 3 years...!!!!

Ridiculous.......

Would rather win wooden spoons than stoop to Hird levels, that club will never be spoken about or looked at the same in the wider AFL community ever again.

 

[therubbernub]

Certainly in the ball park. I just can't see SOS giving up our 1st pick this year or especially next. If Kelly did nominate us, SOS would possible manufacture another option, probably around the compensation we get from Gibbs

So much to play out

I see and hear from the club that they are very keen to get into a winning culture sooner rather than later. They have done the heavy lifting in the draft and are now keen to start reaping some return in terms of the teams performance. Its all well and good to say we are rebuilding blah blah blah, but at some stage the team has to show the members that it was all worth the pain and we are starting to climb the ladder. That year is 2018 IMO. Without a fringe 8 finish the jungle drums will start beating for BB. Players will start questioning their decision to stay as they roll out of contracts and membership will drop. Simply we need to improve next year. Now by recruiting kelly and then turning around and getting rid of Gibbs, I see it as very unlikely that Kelly will make a material difference in our performance. Simply we need both to be performing and forming a solid core along with Murphy and Cripps, so that the young developing mids can thrive and improve. If Kelly wants to come (and it is sounding more and more like he has chosen us) then SOS knows that he is in the drivers seat in these negotiations and he is not going to give GWS a free kick on this. IMO its our first pick and thats it. There wont be any fire sales to raise picks to satisfy GWS. The penalty we pay will be in the Kelly contract- not in terms of sycophant delivery of picks to GWS. If we get an early second rounder for Casboult , I can see sos trading the casboult pick and our second round pick next year for Josh possibly with a salary dump to help them out, as another scenario

 

[Bokonon_]

Can see why the rumours are about SOS may be cooling on Kelly. May just cost us too much to get him to the club.

Read curious as to whether you guys are seriously into Kelly. I think he'll go and the receiving club will pay overs with all the hype. Judgement for your list manager I get. Honestly wouldn't hold your breath for Whitfield though I beleive he's committed.