Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Arr0w]

People have come up with viable options. You just don't agree with them and hence call them not viable.

Rowe is one guy who can ruck as well. Not as good a contested mark, but we know he will give it everything he's got unlike Levi who demands 4 years but doesn't chase when the game is on the line against our arch rivals.

Redpath is rumoured to be a target. We'll soon find out if that's true but if it is, it goes to show SOS is looking for other options so what would that tell you about Levi?

Yes people have come up with options, all of which have dramatically varied to what you should surely concede is not unanimous

Let's look at your option

Wright - Rowe - JSOS
Charlie - Harry - Another Small Forward (Insert Name)

• Rowe - Agree with you, will give his all, I would be really concerned putting this guy in the ruck after a knee injury, not a great contested mark either
• Redpath - As you say, rumoured to be looked at and with a 2nd rounder (seems like we give up Casboult for him, doesn't seem to be a win win), Also has had a similar output to Casboult this year. Plus will get smashed in the ruck being only 194cm and has done 3 knees
• Harry - To fragile as yet to be risked in the ruck, especially with his injury past
• Phillips - More than serviceable ruck option, poor as a forward, currently injured, again
• Orange - Enough said
• Korcheck - Gone at the end of this year
• KJ - Seems like his papers are stamped

Have stated many times that I am not advocating that Casboult stays or goes, but if he does leave, I would prefer a better option than what is stated above, short term at least

Just sayin

 

[tarczonandjane]

I'm glad we are at a point in our rebuild where 19 year old key position players who can play at both ends of the ground are tradeable

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I've put it forward in detail, many times overs but in summary;
GWS will want ready made players.
If Gibbs was to go, they could get themselves our pick which they can convert to another player they need.
Salary dumping. They love and need to dump salary, which could allow them....a premium free agent?

There are many ways to skin a cat. SOS has shown that he knows how to press all the right buttons, so why not do it one more time?

Sorry mate I must've missed it, I've been involved in a few back and forth discussions on here lately lol.

So, we trade Gibbs for say pick #9 (they get that for Lever for example), then essentially, we package #9 + Murphy for Kelly?

It could work, but given Murphy's near the end of his career and Kelly is just getting started they might want a bit more from us.

 

[LordLucifer]

Sorry, it is very frustrating to read some of these suggestions as they seem so far fetched I do not understand how they came up with them in the first place.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

I've put it forward in detail, many times overs but in summary;
GWS will want ready made players.
If Gibbs was to go, they could get themselves our pick which they can convert to another player they need.
Salary dumping. They love and need to dump salary, which could allow them....a premium free agent?

There are many ways to skin a cat. SOS has shown that he knows how to press all the right buttons, so why not do it one more time?

GWS have 23 players with over 70 games experience of those 14 have played over 100 games so im not sure they are desperate for ready made players anymore.

We have 14 players with over 70 games only just to put it into perspective.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Yes people have come up with options, all of which have dramatically varied to what you should surely concede is not unanimous

Let's look at your option

Wright - Rowe - JSOS
Charlie - Harry - Another Small Forward (Insert Name)

• Rowe - Agree with you, will give his all, I would be really concerned putting this guy in the ruck after a knee injury, not a great contested mark either
• Redpath - As you say, rumoured to be looked at and with a 2nd rounder (seems like we give up Casboult for him, doesn't seem to be a win win), Also has had a similar output to Casboult this year. Plus will get smashed in the ruck being only 194cm and has done 3 knees
• Harry - To fragile as yet to be risked in the ruck, especially with his injury past
• Phillips - More than serviceable ruck option, poor as a forward, currently injured, again
• Orange - Enough said
• Korcheck - Gone at the end of this year
• KJ - Seems like his papers are stamped

Have stated many times that I am not advocating that Casboult stays or goes, but if he does leave, I would prefer a better option than what is stated above, short term at least

Just sayin

We'd all prefer a better option, but we may have to take some short term pain. Having a stint in the ruck to give Kreuze a rest doesn't need to be a guy who wins a lot of hitouts. A lot of them from Cas get sharked anyway. Rowe I think would do a serviceable job and we take the compo pick to the draft/trade table. But anyway we might be discussing this all for nothing if the Tigers have pulled out of chasing Levi.

One thing I'd like to know is, what good is taking a contested mark if the disposal thereafter is ineffective more often than not?

 

[gab213]

I'm glad we are at a point in our rebuild where 19 year old key position players who can play at both ends of the ground are tradeable

Don't worry, pretty sure it's just a Big Footy thing

 

[HARKER]

Sorry mate I must've missed it, I've been involved in a few back and forth discussions on here lately lol.

So, we trade Gibbs for say pick #9 (they get that for Lever for example), then essentially, we package #9 + Murphy for Kelly?

It could work, but given Murphy's near the end of his career and Kelly is just getting started they might want a bit more from us.

Hence some salary dump where we can get a player that suits us in the short term, but also relieves cap space for GWS. (see Griffen)

GWS have played the early picks game long enough and still have Setterfield, Cumming, Taranto and Perryman still to come into their main team.
I just can't see the point of playing 'deckchairs' with their young talent. They need some experience and maybe a KPD and they're all but set.
Oh.....and they need to get their medical department in order as there's so much talent missing for injury. Ridiculous actually.

 

[Wickzki]

You may well be right. I'm just not so sure that's going to be the way to go, going forwards.
I guess if we had more quality mids around the ball, it may not matter as much.....I'm not sure.

It's a pity that Phiilips has been injured. I feel that many here don't rate him. I'm just not one of them, as I see that he'd have plenty to offer.

My Problem with Kreuzer + Phillips.

Matthew Kreuzer is a standout number one ruckman. Definite AA contention and would be a lock if we were a good team.
Andrew Phillips is a potential number one ruckman. He's not quite there yet, may never be, but has an outside shot to be one.

The lowest TOG% you'd bank on a player having on a team, unless they get hurt, is 70% (look at last night's game for example)

Take away the Geelong game (Kreuzer had 51% TOG because of the concussion) and Kreuzer is averaging 86.53 TOG%. If Phillips gives you a minimum expectancy 70% that combines to 156.53% (would likely be higher).

That means that for over half the game Phillips or Kreuzer have to be at either end of the ground. More than likely this would mean KPF.

The problem with this is that neither gives you enough to be one of your two key forwards for over half the game.

Thus, in conclusion, there is room for only one of Kreuzer and Phillips in the Carlton team. Unfortunately for Phillips Kreuzer is the standout and unless he gets injured (touch wood he doesn't) Phillips opportunities will be sparse.

 

[TooBlue14]

There are way too many numpties on this forum with way too much time on their hands which forces them to come up with ludicrous and illogical ideas that they expect the club will follow through on.


Trade away Marc Murphy ........

Trade away Jacob Weitering .......

Levi Casboult is too valuable to us for him to leave ......


I'm all for some lateral thinking but FFS, can we get dose of realism to go with these ideas please ??

He's more valuable than a pick outside 25 is what I said. I'm sure you e said way more rubbish to go along with your shore statement. Don't have a crack at OPINION and return fire with nothing of use.

 

[Arr0w]

We'd all prefer a better option, but we may have to take some short term pain. Having a stint in the ruck to give Kreuze a rest doesn't need to be a guy who wins a lot of hitouts. A lot of them from Cas get sharked anyway. Rowe I think would do a serviceable job and we take the compo pick to the draft/trade table. But anyway we might be discussing this all for nothing if the Tigers have pulled out of chasing Levi.

One thing I'd like to know is, what good is taking a contested mark if the disposal thereafter is ineffective more often than not?

That is a very valid question, all I would do is point to the current stats/facts. This year he has kicked 29. 18, his best output yet, not bad for a guy who should be viewed a 2nd string KPF/Ruck chop out, in a bottom 2 side, while someone like Harry develops. I understand you and everyone else is frustrated, personally I think he should be played as a high CHF, rather than closer to goal, that may easy the frustration

As you say the Tigers link seems to have had a dose of reality, so I standby my thoughts that we will not get a band 3 compensation

 

[Azul]

for over half the game Phillips or Kreuzer have to be at either end of the ground. More than likely this would mean KPF.

The problem with this is that neither gives you enough to be one of your two key forwards for over half the game.

Thus, in conclusion, there is room for only one of Kreuzer and Phillips in the Carlton team. Unfortunately for Phillips Kreuzer is the standout and unless he gets injured (touch wood he doesn't) Phillips opportunities will be sparse.

Trade Kreuzer.

He's one dimensional and can only play ruck. Worth an early second rounder.

 

[Wickzki]

Trade Kreuzer.

He's one dimensional and can only play ruck. Worth an early second rounder.

 

[tarczonandjane]

I've finally figured out how things work around here.

Let's trade Cripps and Charlie Curnow!

 

[Blue_Fusion]

That is a very valid question, all I would do is point to the current stats/facts. This year he has kicked 29. 18, his best output yet, not bad for a guy who should be viewed a 2nd string KPF/Ruck chop out, in a bottom 2 side, while someone like Harry develops. I understand you and everyone else is frustrated, personally I think he should be played as a high CHF, rather than closer to goal, that may easy the frustration

As you say the Tigers link seems to have had a dose of reality, so I standby my thoughts that we will not get a band 3 compensation

He's not a 2nd string kpf. He's our main target. He is a 2nd string ruck.

High CHF he will struggle because he doesn't have the tank/desire to work hard.

If we don't get a good compo pick then we're better off keeping him.

 

[Arr0w]

He's not a 2nd string kpf. He's our main target. He is a 2nd string ruck.

High CHF he will struggle because he doesn't have the tank/desire to work hard.

If we don't get a good compo pick then we're better off keeping him.

And that is the problem, right there!!

Due of our poor list management in the past, Casboult has been used as a main KPF, when in any other side he would be the 2nd string forward/ruck.

Develop the likes of a Harry and Casboult will be a valuable assistant short term

 

[F_therest]

You may well be right. I'm just not so sure that's going to be the way to go, going forwards.
I guess if we had more quality mids around the ball, it may not matter as much.....I'm not sure.

It's a pity that Phiilips has been injured. I feel that many here don't rate him. I'm just not one of them, as I see that he'd have plenty to offer.

I rate Phillips but more as a no.1 ruck who can push forward rather than the other way around.

Not sure the balance of Phillips ans Kreuzer worked that we'll last year...Phillips a little bit too much of a lumbering ruckman to play 70% of games up forward imo but he could improve. Showed he can certainly take a grab and kick goals from 50m when uninjured and in form.

 

[HARKER]

I've finally figured out how things work around here.

Let's trade Cripps and Charlie Curnow!

That would be crazy as they're part of the future.
It's the past we should be looking at trading. Clean slate. New start. Full steam ahead.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

I think Daisy might be a positive bloke...but his contract, the relationship with Malthouse, did he ever win us a game? I would say his contract and lack of game impact divided the playing group and is an effective cheerleader at best. Experiment over. He is in the papers wanting another contract. Carlton would get more value by hiring another coach on a tenth of a wage. Nothing divides a group quicker than an underperforming pet. No slight on the man, great attitude but he is the highest paid trainer in the AFL. Player/captain of the NB's on $30 grand would be what I would consider value. I dont want my opinion to diminish the obvious respect some of you have though, I would concede my insight is limited to match day coverage.

I'm glad your not in charge of aiming the missiles at North Korea because I suspect Melbourne would be in danger of being hit.

 

[Zlatan]

What we need is more goal kicking midfielders and small forwards - put Buddy up forward in this team and how much more of a difference does it make?

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I like your backline ... accentuates how important Plowman is

Looking at some of the distance covered stats throughout the year Plowman may end up further up the ground, he's got a fair tank on him

 

[Abyss]

I'm glad your not in charge of aiming the missiles at North Korea because I suspect Melbourne would be in danger of being hit.

Off target? I dont mind vicco, maybe Sydney? I will stand by my call though, I was pro sport for over 2 decades and nothing caused more trouble than overpaid underperformers. No matter how chirpy. The media sledges printed mid week by Nathan Brown went along the lines of $47g a touch. Thats a personal sledge and a sledge on CFC. He gets a shepherd from the crew here but nothing posted has ever made me think CFCs dollars were well spent. I'd put the hovercraft with 'can you smell what we are cooking' stencilled on the thing at CHF before Daisy. If he gets resigned there will be ballistics.

 

[Soapy V]

I'm glad we are at a point in our rebuild where 19 year old key position players who can play at both ends of the ground are tradeable

As long it's only on here and not part of the clubs consideration it's all okay

 

[Soapy V]

Yes people have come up with options, all of which have dramatically varied to what you should surely concede is not unanimous

Let's look at your option

Wright - Rowe - JSOS
Charlie - Harry - Another Small Forward (Insert Name)

• Rowe - Agree with you, will give his all, I would be really concerned putting this guy in the ruck after a knee injury, not a great contested mark either
• Redpath - As you say, rumoured to be looked at and with a 2nd rounder (seems like we give up Casboult for him, doesn't seem to be a win win), Also has had a similar output to Casboult this year. Plus will get smashed in the ruck being only 194cm and has done 3 knees
• Harry - To fragile as yet to be risked in the ruck, especially with his injury past
• Phillips - More than serviceable ruck option, poor as a forward, currently injured, again
• Orange - Enough said
• Korcheck - Gone at the end of this year
• KJ - Seems like his papers are stamped

Have stated many times that I am not advocating that Casboult stays or goes, but if he does leave, I would prefer a better option than what is stated above, short term at least

Just sayin

Fair points. The only difference I have is why can't McKay relieve Kruezer in the ruck in 2018?

He is big and strong enough and will be better in 2018 in his third year. I believe it helps with development having a different role and being involved one the play more.

If a kid like him starts to feel it you rest him for a week but you don't hide them in a game. 15 or more games next year as a forward/ruck next year will do him wonders

I believe he will become a fantastic key forward part time ruck much like Daniher and as good if not better

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

I've finally figured out how things work around here.

Let's trade Cripps and Charlie Curnow!

Do you have any reasons?
Like most of us have reasons ..

I know you're being sarcastic but you're not adding to a realistic debate without reasons.

Which means you're using pointless sarcasm