Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Iamcarlton]

I'd take Whitfield over Hopper.

I don't see what all the fuss is about with Jacob

Clearly the performances of Hopper havent been at the standard of Whitfields yet! . So id imagine people icluding myself are projecting forward and thinking Hopper will still be a decent player of course may be wrong . For mine we need to get help for Cripps on the inside of the contest and for when Cripps is out is injured as well we need another big bodied player . Imo Hopper or a similar player to Hopper will give us more value for our side than Whitfield who is more an outside running player . Jmo .

 

[Pinnell]

From the Bluemour thread.

Vehemently disagree. Touk is a hardnut leader and can play inside - just hasn't had much chop with the Suns' players. Would walk into our starting midfield and add character and leadership to the group. Right age, too.

Now is the time to strike with Miller as he'll start to reach his peak soon and value go up.

If we got Pick 18 for Levi, I wouldn't hesitate in moving that on for Touk. Suns might see that as fair value, too. Perhaps with a later pick our way.

Unfortuantely, when you select players in your supercoach team at the start of each year you end up watching them more closely that anyone else. I'll stick with my assessment. He's soft and one paced.

 

[Matty411]

Unfortuantely, when you select players in your supercoach team at the start of each year you end up watching them more closely that anyone else. I'll stick with my assessment. He's soft and one paced.

Do not play SuperCoach mate, so try again there. Rated him in his draft year and slid. Of course, this discussion is futile as Touk re-signed to stay at the Suns earlier this year until end of 2019 and has stated he's happy at the Suns.

 

[Sector 7G]

I'd take Whitfield over Hopper.

I don't see what all the fuss is about with Jacob

He is an inside mid that doesn't get much of a go in that role. Think how Cripps went to another level when Judd went down and was able to play his natural role.

 

[Pinnell]

Do not play SuperCoach mate, so try again there. Rated him in his draft year and slid. Of course, this discussion is futile as Touk re-signed to stay at the Suns earlier this year until end of 2019 and has stated he's happy at the Suns.

I'm glad its futile then...

 

[Blue__Balls]

Off target? I dont mind vicco, maybe Sydney? I will stand by my call though, I was pro sport for over 2 decades and nothing caused more trouble than overpaid underperformers. No matter how chirpy. The media sledges printed mid week by Nathan Brown went along the lines of $47g a touch. Thats a personal sledge and a sledge on CFC. He gets a shepherd from the crew here but nothing posted has ever made me think CFCs dollars were well spent. I'd put the hovercraft with 'can you smell what we are cooking' stencilled on the thing at CHF before Daisy. If he gets resigned there will be ballistics.

You realise Brown didn't actually get the calculator out on that sledge. Assume Daisy is on $600k, I reckon he's had more than 12 touches for the year...

Yes he's been overpaid on output, but by all reports he's considered a fantastic leader and role model for the younger players. Our leadership has been noticeably "quiet" in years gone by, and getting an extrovert like Daisy into the club has been a big part of the cultural change.

Could we have paid him less? Sure.

Will we pay him less on a new contract? Absolutely. He'll get a contract that reflects his contribution to the club, no more and no less.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

He is an inside mid that doesn't get much of a go in that role. Think how Cripps went to another level when Judd went down and was able to play his natural role.

That's actually a good comparison. If we put a 20 year old Cripps out on a flank then he would be a pretty average player imo

 

[Cutz]

It certainly makes us more balanced for now but giving up a talent like Weitering will only come back to bite us. We need to be patient and play the long game here. Finding Jones is great but he'll be pushing 30 by the time we are truly challenging again. Weitering & Marchbank will be 23/24. Yes we need mids but let's not damage some of the work we've done in other areas of the ground to achieve it.

Great post !!

Carlton are in no position to give away any "talent".

Weitering is a superb athlete with fantastic leadership qualities. I know hes had a tough season in his second , and he is obviously carrying an injury..But he is a dead set gun..Wait till he reaches that 50-80 game mark... Weitering stays..

We all know the players on our list that need to moved on to make space for draftees or players traded in.

Weitering is definitely not one of them.

 

[HBF]

I don't want the spoon.

Not really any difference between pick 1 and 2.

Agreed.
Especially if we end up trading 1/2 anyway.

 

[HBF]

Good to see Boekhorst get the opportunity and make good of it.
The better the midfield, the more Boekhorst will make sense.
Clearly has quality traits, but it's about getting the mindset right and the same goes for Jaksch.
I don't like clearing players with clear ability, but understand that sometimes you can't make the horse drink.

If either player is cut, it will be unfortunate as there are others that will remain simply by default.

In a shallow draft we may see players retained that in any other year may be forced out.
Army has retired, Gorringe, KJ & Buckley likely to be delisted. Casboult will find another home.
Can see a number of 1 year contracts handed out at years end.

 

[Abyss]

You realise Brown didn't actually get the calculator out on that sledge. Assume Daisy is on $600k, I reckon he's had more than 12 touches for the year...

Yes he's been overpaid on output, but by all reports he's considered a fantastic leader and role model for the younger players. Our leadership has been noticeably "quiet" in years gone by, and getting an extrovert like Daisy into the club has been a big part of the cultural change.

Could we have paid him less? Sure.

Will we pay him less on a new contract? Absolutely. He'll get a contract that reflects his contribution to the club, no more and no less.

No doubt bluey hes an extrovert and Im on board with that line of thinking, that as a club we seem to be a bit shy. I think as a club we can spare a bit of cash too, so the dollars arent so much of an issue with me. My point is, I dont think he can affect a game physically or with skill. Weve got Cas that is wobbly in front of goals but is a behemoth that can ruck, take a mark and is incredibly consistent getting on the field. Which, when compared to all his contemporaries (patton, dixon et al) is solid. So we cant squib about paying Cas up near what those guys are on, particularly when he has to sit in a forward line that gets about 10 good opportunities a match. I also look at the veterans recently traded cheaply, and, even though I cant stand blokes like Lewis or Mitchell, the behind the scenes work Daisy must be doing must be incredible. He must be driving the schoolbus for all the coaching and playing staffs kids. Im happy on the reasons you give for someone to take that role, but for someone that rarely gets on the park let alone win his position, plus the Malthouse baggage, id like to see the Thomas experiment finish this season. Also, and though they arent popular names around here, weve traded out anyone with a bit of mongrel about them (fev, robinson, waite). Were not talking about setting up a church choir here, get a minder in for these types. We lack extroverts but we also lack bulldog. I dont know about you, Im happy to pay to see a game with those types, Thomas is nice to read about in the papers but even that puts me to sleep. Simmo is in the same basket I would think now, we cant afford two of these types especially with threadbare depth.

 

[Sector 7G]

In a shallow draft we may see players retained that in any other year may be forced out.
Army has retired, Gorringe, KJ & Buckley likely to be delisted. Casboult will find another home.
Can see a number of 1 year contracts handed out at years end.

I think that it will depend on who gets delisted by other clubs. Most clubs will probably not cut hard this year, which might mean that NG and BB get another year.

 

[Jimmae]

I think his attitude will be key. If he is willing to put the work in then his endurance level atm won't be an issue. Cripps tested pretty badly from memory, his desire to get the best out of himself has overcome these challenges. I really hope Rayner is a clear number 1 pick, we need something good to come out of another wooden spoon (apart from the huge growth in our young guys this year).

Cripps was coming off a growth spurt and a broken leg.

 

[HARKER]

https://audioboom.com/posts/6201228-the-carlton-show-episode-26-2017?playlist_direction=forward&t=0

The Boekhorst discussion may just be very close to what may come about.
Go to the 40 minute mark.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Cripps was coming off a growth spurt and a broken leg.

Yeah, I know that. The point of my post was more about his mentality. Any player who has some talent and Cripps' attitude has a very good chance of becoming a quality player.

 

[Blue__Balls]

No doubt bluey hes an extrovert and Im on board with that line of thinking, that as a club we seem to be a bit shy. I think as a club we can spare a bit of cash too, so the dollars arent so much of an issue with me. My point is, I dont think he can affect a game physically or with skill. Weve got Cas that is wobbly in front of goals but is a behemoth that can ruck, take a mark and is incredibly consistent getting on the field. Which, when compared to all his contemporaries (patton, dixon et al) is solid. So we cant squib about paying Cas up near what those guys are on, particularly when he has to sit in a forward line that gets about 10 good opportunities a match. I also look at the veterans recently traded cheaply, and, even though I cant stand blokes like Lewis or Mitchell, the behind the scenes work Daisy must be doing must be incredible. He must be driving the schoolbus for all the coaching and playing staffs kids. Im happy on the reasons you give for someone to take that role, but for someone that rarely gets on the park let alone win his position, plus the Malthouse baggage, id like to see the Thomas experiment finish this season. Also, and though they arent popular names around here, weve traded out anyone with a bit of mongrel about them (fev, robinson, waite). Were not talking about setting up a church choir here, get a minder in for these types. We lack extroverts but we also lack bulldog. I dont know about you, Im happy to pay to see a game with those types, Thomas is nice to read about in the papers but even that puts me to sleep. Simmo is in the same basket I would think now, we cant afford two of these types especially with threadbare depth.

Disagree wholeheartedly, we have room and salary to accommodate a senior player who is highly respected by our young players for another year should we want to.

Rarely gets on the park? Assuming he plays the remaining two rounds he'll have notched up 18 games a year for two straight seasons.

I'd much rather see another year for Daisy than I would the same for Sumner or Buckley at this stage. Those two guys are younger, sure, but their off-field contributions (or lack thereof) don't offset their poor on-field returns. Daisy at least can be a reliable leader of the club, can play predominantly at VFL level, but if someone like Matty Wright went down injured I'd be confident that Daisy could come in, get his 15-20 touches and craft a goal or two for himself or his teammates. He's playing an extremely selfless brand of football for Carlton - most of his work is in running and providing options up-field for players to kick to. He's running himself into the ground to do so, and if he wasn't doing it we'd be looking even slower in transition than we are. His skills have let him down at times (as have those of Simpson, Murphy, Kerridge, Graham etc.), and he's certainly not gonna be roosting goals from 45m out anymore, but he's got the work ethic and the intangibles to be a valuable contributor for at least one more season.

The biggest issue with Daisy is that many people are unable to look at him objectively based on current and future output. It always comes down to how much he's been paid over the last few seasons, or how much better he was at Collingwood and how he'll never be that player again. Forget all that. Daisy for 2018 on $300-400k is perfectly acceptable given where we're at as a club.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Can somebody please tell me who is going to chop out Kruezer in the ruck if we let Casboult leave?

And don't say Phillips.

 

[Lace_Out]

If we can trade Kelly for pick 2 we do it all day long...a bird in the hand etc.
If it ends up pick one we ask for a 2nd good player and work out the small change.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[skadoosh]

I don't want him either, but if we did go after him there's no way I would trade from him. Richmond will probably delist him at the end of the year.

Genuinely curious as to the success rate of picking up players who have been delisted. Not just our club, but other clubs too.

 

[Arr0w]

There is no chance we get Touk Miller he is a part of the leadership group and really happy. The player we were a high chance to get was Victoiran Brayden Fioroni. I heard and posted this early this season when he wasn't getting a game and after being dropped after good games. He was not happy with Eade. With the coaching set to change not too sure how this changes things but would love to see him in Navy blue next year despite being in contract until end of 2018.

I know the family well, I would love Brayden to be at the CFC. I think that if he wants out of GC, he would nominate the Pies

 

[Jorge]

Can somebody please tell me who is going to chop out Kruezer in the ruck if we let Casboult leave?

And don't say Phillips.

You would have to assume Casboult will be in some way replaced. Redpath, Trengove both seem to be targets.

 

[HARKER]

Can somebody please tell me who is going to chop out Kruezer in the ruck if we let Casboult leave?

And don't say Phillips.

Why not Phillips?

 

[ferrisb]

Why not Phillips?

Despite what the little mexican girl says.....this is one case you can't (shouldn't) have both...

 

[HBF]

Boekhorst showed a bit. He's miles ahead of Lose My Feet Sumner.

Have completely forgotten about Sumner.
He's going to really struggle to stay on the list after the end of the year.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Can somebody please tell me who is going to chop out Kruezer in the ruck if we let Casboult leave?

And don't say Phillips.

Phillips.