Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Rarely Rong]

I think we could do a lot worse than offer Cam O'Shea a ASOS type deal also.

Very consistent and realible all year at Northern.

 

[HARKER]

I think we could do a lot worse than offer Cam O'Shea a ASOS type deal also.

Very consistent and realible all year at Northern.

Just one question though; Why?

I'd be concerned about how often he turns the ball over.
Haven't seen him the last few weeks, but his first half of the year wouldn't have had SOS wanting to offer Cam a list spot.

 

[Soapy V]

I think we could do a lot worse than offer Cam O'Shea a ASOS type deal also.

Very consistent and realible all year at Northern.

Do we need another tall defender?

 

[Wickzki]

Liberatore

Do not want.

• Has gone backwards each of the past 3 years
• Came into preseason very much out of shape
• Inconsistent form much of which can be put down to desire (or lack thereof)
• Would cost far more in trade than what he is worth
• A classic case of a player who peaked early in his career
• With what Tony has said about the club I cannot imagine the club being on best terms with his family

 

[Wickzki]

I think we could do a lot worse than offer Cam O'Shea a ASOS type deal also.

• Doesn't satisfy a position of need
• Is outside of the targeted age group
• Would be at least 8th in line to get a game (Marchbank, Weitering, Plowman, Jones, ASOS, Rowe, Macreadie... JGM (?))
• Hasn't proven that he can swing to the other end of the ground

In summary, you're better off developing a younger player who fits one or both of the top two categories (position of need and age). It'd be a wasted list spot on an older player who wouldn't even get enough (any) opportunity to prove that he was worth it.

 

[DangerousD]

The fact that Sydney were prepared to let him go so easily wasn't a good sign either.

Sydney offered him a contractz

 

[DangerousD]

There was a new contract on the table. Xavier threw it away, saying his only motivation for being in NSW was brother Teddy. But no Melbourne team wanted that baggage.

Any idea why he then chose to play in the NEAFL?

 

[PoultryinMotion]

Do not want.

• Has gone backwards each of the past 3 years
• Came into preseason very much out of shape
• Inconsistent form much of which can be put down to desire (or lack thereof)
• Would cost far more in trade than what he is worth
• A classic case of a player who peaked early in his career
• With what Tony has said about the club I cannot imagine the club being on best terms with his family

The cost to risk balance would be my main concern, otherwise I would have thought as an inside ball winning, handball-addict he might have enough upside to take a punt.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

ASOS was great when he came in, but now with the emergence of LJ is he a required player and worth holding a spot on the list for?

 

[bmaurizio]

ASOS was great when he came in, but now with the emergence of LJ is he a required player and worth holding a spot on the list for?

I 'd say yes, they 'll work smoothly and seemly together and add much grunt and effectiveness to our defence, allow all the youngsters a few years to combine and adapt as a working unit. I think that model will be a spring board going forward especipply if we upgrade our midfield th S upcoming draft trade period.
2018 we rectify our KPF once and for all.
Go Baggers

 

[Soapy V]

ASOS was great when he came in, but now with the emergence of LJ is he a required player and worth holding a spot on the list for?

Definitely. Can stay as a rookie, doesn't cost much and there a lot more to go before him. Hard nut that makes a difference. Gives us options like Weitering or Jones going forward if Casboult leaves.

 

[Wickzki]

ASOS was great when he came in, but now with the emergence of LJ is he a required player and worth holding a spot on the list for?

Yes and doubly so if Rowe decides to hang them up. You need a veteran KPD.

ASOS himself can swing forward. Not a noted goal kicker but has proven to be smart when he has gone forward in the past.

 

[Gingerbread man]

We have fewer wins in the last 3 seasons than brisbane did when they were given theres last season.

Are you sure this is correct.
Lions
2014 - 7
2015 - 4
2016 - 3
= 14
Blues
2015 - 4
2016 - 7
2017 - 5
= 16

 

[I AM CARLTON]

ASOS was great when he came in, but now with the emergence of LJ is he a required player and worth holding a spot on the list for?

Yeah not sure we need both Rowe and ASOS on the list when we have Jones, Weitering, Macreadie and Marchbank.

 

[Cutz]

Definitely. Can stay as a rookie, doesn't cost much and there a lot more to go before him. Hard nut that makes a difference. Gives us options like Weitering or Jones going forward if Casboult leaves.

Uh ?

Last time Jones went forward it came within a bee's d**k of it costing him his career !

If Jones is ever played forward again..we are going backwards !

 

[rampar]

Do not want.

• Has gone backwards each of the past 3 years
• Came into preseason very much out of shape
• Inconsistent form much of which can be put down to desire (or lack thereof)
• Would cost far more in trade than what he is worth
• A classic case of a player who peaked early in his career
• With what Tony has said about the club I cannot imagine the club being on best terms with his family

Plus his old man is a dibber dobber . Pretty sure anything starting with Lib* is a perma ban

 

[Azul]

Any idea why he then chose to play in the NEAFL?

Well this is the tragic thing, according to a Sydney fan I know.

After declaring he was homesick and wanting to reconnect with family and friends in Melbourne he arrived jobless and out of luck. I dunno if any VFL clubs approached him but he was offered a lifeline back in the Sydney comp.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Definitely. Can stay as a rookie, doesn't cost much and there a lot more to go before him. Hard nut that makes a difference. Gives us options like Weitering or Jones going forward if Casboult leaves.

This. He is only Rookie listed so happy to keep him.
Just on O'Shea from the few times I've seen him play I would say he would easily be in our best AFL side ATM. Do we need him though? No. I really hope he gets picked up by someone this year though because he has earned it

 

[FoeverBlues]

Plus his old man is a dibber dobber . Pretty sure anything starting with Lib* is a perma ban

The son should not bear the punishment of his father's sin

 

[blue healer]

Kelly is going to cost 1.2M? Pick 1? What does that do to the fabric of the club? What happens when Cripps/Curnow etc want 1.2M a year because Kelly gets it?

Look at the successful clubs over the last 20 years, they all build a core from the draft, all players buy into the dream, they become a destination club and fill holes by selling said premiership dream not money. I say keep pick 1, keep money for free agents for when we are ready with a well balanced list with all parties paid fairly and let Kelly ruin the culture at the kangaroos.

This post strikes a chord with me.

1.2 mill is a lot of bickies and could conceivably create future problems when our younger players come out of contract and quite a few of those could be in the same year. This doesn't even take into consideration the cost to us in compensation. GWS say he's worth 2 first round picks and many here are prepared to consider variations of this ( add in Hopper or another, picks back as a sweetener a maybe a salary dump for someone like Griffin) but how much of the farm are we prepared to sell?

In my experience on this board there are 2 things that make a good player great or even elite. One is if they are out of contract at another club and show some interest in us and the other is if they are on our list and are out injured.

As an example of the latter take a look at Ed Curnow who is seen by many here as our current missing link. At the beginning of this year people were calling for him to be dropped as he was struggling, he turned it around somewhat then got injured and in came Kerridge who (in the opinion of many was a destroyer of the ball and some say still is) but has become a much more than adequate replacement.

I've watched Kelly in the last few, one live against Freo and,yes he's a good player but not as good as I had hoped. When Treloar was out of contract I felt that he was playing better football than Kelly is now. Yes I'd like to pick him up but that contract and the trade cost has me worried, I'm just not that keen on putting all our eggs in one basket.

We did that with Daisy, we were more than happy to let Eddie go without a wimper to open our purse strings for a player who is not the shadow of an older Eddie Betts and many here are happy to trade Gibbs to create the picks to offer GWS. I reckon this could be just a rewrite of our recent history.

And BTW I'm also getting a little tired of always taking contracted players who are surplus to GWS needs only for us to be the team that ultimately delists them.

I'm leaning towards hoping Kelly re-signs so that we can concentrate on lesser rated, cheaper players to fill our gaps and hitting the draft hard. That plan has worked of late, hope we don't lose that blueprint.

Sorry for the length of this post but I did include paragraphs.

 

[Azul]

I think we could do a lot worse than offer Cam O'Shea a ASOS type deal also.

Very consistent and realible all year at Northern.

I think the idea overall is sound, even if we don't need an umpteenth tall defender. I'd favour overhauling our approach to the rookie list.

Strip the list back to 38 and take 6 players in the rookie draft. Where is the talent you say? Take 5 high output 21yos from the WAFL and SANFL. Offer the last place to the best performed Northern Blues kid from the previous year like a DeClase, Corboy or Stavrou.

The idea being take a handful of ready-made mature bodied players with the explicit goal of providing support to the 18 year old draftees. If one of them consistently outshines their senior listed teammates, we give them reward in fulfilling their AFL dream. The goal here is to develop a better VFL team but with a higher chance of unearthing a rough diamond than giving lifelines to Smedts or Palmer or keeping White or Sheehan on for another year.

 

[bmaurizio]

There's no harm to the fabric or culture of our club, as
professional sportsmen are aware elite talent will attracted huge money in any sport world wide.
You are either suited have the passion and very gifted or simply not.
We need to attract elite talent as we move along. Either the vey best or as close as we can get.
Go Baggers

 

[therubbernub]

Who could take charlies place in the forward line if he goes full time Midfield? We have a surplus of defenders that are key position height. Its a nice position to be in for once , but we need to be realistic about what our list balance needs. We need mids and forwards. Charlie is the wildcard tall that can play mid or KPF , but he is the only one that seems to be able to go into the midfield. If he is pushed into the midfield then we are robbing peter to pay paul, but at least it shores up one of our weaknesses.
So is there a valid argument to re-purpose one of our defenders into the forward line?

Jones has been tried and failed. Most would say that he belongs in the backline now. But he wouldnt be the first player that needed to change position in order to learn and then return to their original position. He will have gained enormous confidence and belief in himself this season. He will have learnt a lot playing on the oppositions best forwards. He may be an option.
Weitering has been acting as a swing man this year. He is certainly running enormous GPS Km's so he could certainly play the mobile forward role, and as we know he is smart and reads the play really well.
Rowe Is capable of playing forward and since his last foray in the forward line, he has had a lot of experience playing on the good forwards. he is a great kick. Not sure about his mobility, or his ability to take a contested mark.
Marchbank Like Weitering, he is a good reader of the play and an intercept marker. Could be worth playing forward.
Macreadie We havent seen enough of this guy to really know but could be a possibility
Plowman A bit smaller for a KPF role

Thoughts?

 

[F_therest]

Who could take charlies place in the forward line if he goes full time Midfield? We have a surplus of defenders that are key position height. Its a nice position to be in for once , but we need to be realistic about what our list balance needs. We need mids and forwards. Charlie is the wildcard tall that can play mid or KPF , but he is the only one that seems to be able to go into the midfield. If he is pushed into the midfield then we are robbing peter to pay paul, but at least it shores up one of our weaknesses.
So is there a valid argument to re-purpose one of our defenders into the forward line?

Jones has been tried and failed. Most would say that he belongs in the backline now. But he wouldnt be the first player that needed to change position in order to learn and then return to their original position. He will have gained enormous confidence and belief in himself this season. He will have learnt a lot playing on the oppositions best forwards. He may be an option.
Weitering has been acting as a swing man this year. He is certainly running enormous GPS Km's so he could certainly play the mobile forward role, and as we know he is smart and reads the play really well.
Rowe Is capable of playing forward and since his last foray in the forward line, he has had a lot of experience playing on the good forwards. he is a great kick. Not sure about his mobility, or his ability to take a contested mark.
Marchbank Like Weitering, he is a good reader of the play and an intercept marker. Could be worth playing forward.
Macreadie We havent seen enough of this guy to really know but could be a possibility
Plowman A bit smaller for a KPF role

Thoughts?

I see McKay replacing casboult and Rowe being used as the filler whenever McKay can't play due to injury or whatever...unfortunately he's coming off a big injury and will miss half the season if he's even still with us.

For mine it's Weitering...showed some good signs this year out marking rance and getting on the move higher up the ground against Sydney. He went cold but mostly due to injury and lack of supply...I think he'd do well now we are moving the ball faster. Showed to be a good mark, good kick at goal, endurance and has footy smarts.

Marchbank and Jones are intercepting well so won't lose much there.

 

[Funk]

Who could take charlies place in the forward line if he goes full time Midfield? We have a surplus of defenders that are key position height. Its a nice position to be in for once , but we need to be realistic about what our list balance needs. We need mids and forwards. Charlie is the wildcard tall that can play mid or KPF , but he is the only one that seems to be able to go into the midfield. If he is pushed into the midfield then we are robbing peter to pay paul, but at least it shores up one of our weaknesses.
So is there a valid argument to re-purpose one of our defenders into the forward line?

Jones has been tried and failed. Most would say that he belongs in the backline now. But he wouldnt be the first player that needed to change position in order to learn and then return to their original position. He will have gained enormous confidence and belief in himself this season. He will have learnt a lot playing on the oppositions best forwards. He may be an option.
Weitering has been acting as a swing man this year. He is certainly running enormous GPS Km's so he could certainly play the mobile forward role, and as we know he is smart and reads the play really well.
Rowe Is capable of playing forward and since his last foray in the forward line, he has had a lot of experience playing on the good forwards. he is a great kick. Not sure about his mobility, or his ability to take a contested mark.
Marchbank Like Weitering, he is a good reader of the play and an intercept marker. Could be worth playing forward.
Macreadie We havent seen enough of this guy to really know but could be a possibility
Plowman A bit smaller for a KPF role

Thoughts?

My thought is many "experts" are raving about how Chris Scott/Harry Taylor out coached Rance at the weekend by kicking 4 goals and holding Rance to 15 possessions.

Anyone remember R1 this year?

Rance 9 possessions, Weitering 3 goals.

More "experts" should have been paying attention.

Weits can definitely go forward.