Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[GapInIkonPark]

Already in the media thread

Like your work Jimmae.

Have not made it to the media thread Jimmae.

List Management and Bluemour discussion are the threads which have furiously discussed whether Gibbs will seek a trade to Adelaide after this season like last year, what Adelaide offered and should offer if he does, and how much Adelaide will regret not coughing up last year.

TBH, I find the List Management, Pre match, match day, Autopsy, Bluemour, VFL match day and the occasional other thread such as the D Word, Three newbies most excited and Whipping Boys, Draft ... and also Should Jaksch get a game ... is plenty to keep up with as it is.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...r/news-story/3c06ea303e58f0e39b16176829e5da0a

How could the Cats possibly get him? No first round picks so they'd need to give up a quality player which seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

So we've been linked to Kelly and Hopper now in the media. Unreal if we can get both and keep one of OUR first round picks over the next 2 years.

 

[choo]

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/afl...the-price-on-bryce-gibbs-20170623-gwxoiq.html

Sent it to Kane Cornes. apparently i wasn't the only one!! I'm sure he'd like more links to the article. @kanecornes

 

[HARKER]

How could the Cats possibly get him? No first round picks so they'd need to give up a quality player which seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

So we've been linked to Kelly and Hopper now in the media. Unreal if we can get both and keep one of OUR first round picks over the next 2 years.

The AFL have allowed them to trade a future this year.
They'll be looking at clearing some off their list also and I feel; Motlop Horlin-Smith...Guthrie maybe? There's really not much else.

 

[HARKER]

Loved reading that.

2015
It's important because there was a perception that we buckled when taking #19 for Yarran.
Every chance we would have taken the same player even if we did gain that #12 from Richmond.
Whichever way, we knew we had the win and that has been justified.

2016
We showed others that we won't buckle, even when the 'interested party' set the play by playing music to the media of Gibbs' wishes.
We didn't accept the flimsy deal offered to us and backed ourselves with Gibbs for 2017 and we won out again.

2 years, 2 different showings of how we're going to do things............our way.

 

[reubsblues]

How could the Cats possibly get him? No first round picks so they'd need to give up a quality player which seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

So we've been linked to Kelly and Hopper now in the media. Unreal if we can get both and keep one of OUR first round picks over the next 2 years.

Yep talk gibbs into staying long term and I'd be more than happy giving up this yrs and next yrs 1st for kelly and hopper. How good would our midfield be

 

[thylacine60]

Vic Metro coach Martin Allison says clubs will be 'salivating' over 2017 draft

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Yep talk gibbs into staying long term and I'd be more than happy giving up this yrs and next yrs 1st for kelly and hopper. How good would our midfield be

How long would it be good for?
Three years?

 

[F_therest]

Vic Metro coach Martin Allison says clubs will be 'salivating' over 2017 draft

Huge wraps on this years draft prospects.

Don't take notice of what the media thinks in terms of next year's draft apparently being much better than this years...that gets thrown around a lot and it usually doesn't eventuate.

SOS would have a good idea...eg thinking last years was 'deep' and trading well accordingly, but people exaggerate the whole 'this years draft is shallow and not that good, next year is a superdraft' type talk.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Huge wraps on this years draft prospects.

Don't take notice of what the media thinks in terms of next year's draft apparently being much better than this years...that gets thrown around a lot and it usually doesn't eventuate.

SOS would have a good idea...eg thinking last years was 'deep' and trading well accordingly, but people exaggerate the whole 'this years draft is shallow and not that good, next year is a superdraft' type talk.

Majority of the best in the WA team have been their u17's so far - the super draft may be media sensationalism but it is based on some evidence.

 

[F_therest]

Majority of the best in the WA team have been their u17's so far - the super draft may be media sensationalism but it is based on some evidence.

Yeah i do get that the talk is based on some evidence, but then the media really run with it and then you see posters on here basically talking as if it's going to be the best draft in history while the one in the current year is going to be crap. It just gets over-exaggerated.

 

[katmanblue]

How long would it be good for?
Three years?

Twelve Parsecs

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[Donstuie]

Twelve Parsecs

is a unit of distance, not time

 

[reubsblues]

How long would it be good for?
Three years?

Your not making a point

 

[Jimmae]

Majority of the best in the WA team have been their u17's so far - the super draft may be media sensationalism but it is based on some evidence.

WA's only had one good group in the last few years, so that's not really evidence of much.

 

[Old navy]

Huge wraps on this years draft prospects.

Don't take notice of what the media thinks in terms of next year's draft apparently being much better than this years...that gets thrown around a lot and it usually doesn't eventuate.

SOS would have a good idea...eg thinking last years was 'deep' and trading well accordingly, but people exaggerate the whole 'this years draft is shallow and not that good, next year is a superdraft' type talk.

The two standout prospects in this years draft, LDU Rayner looks like absolute rippers, with potenially Cerra Forgarty and Worpel also around top 5-10 range, if we did have pick 1 or 2 would love to add LDU or Rayner to our list, we most likely won't have a pick that low this year, so getting someone like Josh Kelly may be a much better options for us, would also like for SOS to add some extra particularly 1st round picks for next years draft, but also just extra picks for next years draft in general.

 

[gab213]

I took the view that given our existing cattle and their collective experience to date, whether or not it was possible to play better than we have to date which I have asserted that it is. I gave the example of the 1st q against GCS as what I think we are capable of - we just need to do it for 4Q's. If we play like that for 4Q's we will be playing better than we did against GCS.
Now if you are going to bolt Lynch, Hopper and Kelly into that team, then sure it is also possible to play even better. But my point still stands- we have plenty of improvement available in this current group

I don't think Thy was actually questioning whether we could get better than what we currently are or not.

This was the point being discussed;

Bolton's coaching is making us look better than what we actually are.

This seems to suggest that the team is actually performing at a level above what it is capable of thanks to Bolton.

That really isn't possible, what he is doing is getting the maximum performance out of the team for where its capabilities stand at the moment.

You can't perform above a level of what you are capable of, once you have performed at a certain level the challenge is to then do it on a more consistent basis.

I very much doubt that anyone is questioning that we are capable of further improvement with continued improvement and development of the list.

 

[thylacine60]

why couldn't I put it that way?

 

[TeeJay Blue]

This is what I'm thinking. Correct me if I have got any facts wrong about compos or contracts.

Best case scenario would be to talk Gibbs and his family into sticking around with us. Then like reubsblues, I would be happy to give up both of this year's and next year's first round pick if it were to help us obtain Kelly and Hopper.

Otherwise, if Gibbs still chooses to request the trade then we again play hardball. Ask for first round picks or established players. Of course it won't be for Gibbs by himself as no trade ever turns out like that. We would honestly give up a third or fourth round pick as extra (or perhaps throw Gorringe in as steak knives and leave Adelaide to deal with him).

With the deal apparently thrown at Casboult from Richmond (which if true, will most likely see him walk out). It should at least see us with a third or fourth round compensation pick given the terms of the deal offered to him. This most likely will happen first, which would allow us to freely give up whatever adjacent pick if we needed to.

The disadvantage would only be the loss of a few talls. If we can find at least another experienced KPF to help out the younger crop and/or draft a potential KPF/ruckman, then we are certainly getting somewhere.

As for delistings then I'm afraid to say that Buckley is most likely heading out the door (hate to know what his dad thinks of that). Armfield will either be pushed to reitre in a graceful manner or be delisted with the hope of being picked up as a DFA elsewhere. White probably in the same boat given how quickly our backline depth has built up (either that or a 1 year deal on low money).
Wasn't Korcheck on a 3-year program? If so, I wouldn't go delisting him straight away if Gorringe happens to be used during the trade period. Also depends on what tall key position players we could find.

 

[katmanblue]

is a unit of distance, not time

Yeah mate, i know.
Han didn't.

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[ParapMarkets]

I watched the GWS game today. Dylan Shiel is a gun! I would much prefer taking our draft picks and then pick up this guy as a fa than spend big on Kelly. He is an inside/outside tough midfielder and would be a massive inclusion in 2 years time. I hope those posters who have suggested he wants to finish his career at Carlton are correct.

A few posters have mentioned that Hopper is sure to go to Geelong, I hope we can get him as he would be perfect for us.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

The AFL have allowed them to trade a future this year.
They'll be looking at clearing some off their list also and I feel; Motlop Horlin-Smith...Guthrie maybe? There's really not much else.

Don't they have to trade into the 1st round this year though? I find it hard to believe that they can trade their first round pick so many years in a row. I'm pretty sure the rules say you need to have at least 2 every 4 years or something along those lines.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I watched the GWS game today. Dylan Shiel is a gun! I would much prefer taking our draft picks and then pick up this guy as a fa than spend big on Kelly. He is an inside/outside tough midfielder and would be a massive inclusion in 2 years time. I hope those posters who have suggested he wants to finish his career at Carlton are correct.

A few posters have mentioned that Hopper is sure to go to Geelong, I hope we can get him as he would be perfect for us.

Don't worry, we can get both. Kelly + Hopper this year and then in 2 years time we target Shiel. We'll pretty much have GWSs midfield while at their peak lol.

 

[therubbernub]

SOS obviously didn't rate him.[/Q

I don't think Thy was actually questioning whether we could get better than what we currently are or not.

This was the point being discussed;



This seems to suggest that the team is actually performing at a level above what it is capable of thanks to Bolton.

That really isn't possible, what he is doing is getting the maximum performance out of the team for where its capabilities stand at the moment.

You can't perform above a level of what you are capable of, once you have performed at a certain level the challenge is to then do it on a more consistent basis.

I very much doubt that anyone is questioning that we are capable of further improvement with continued improvement and development of the list.

Thanks for making me re-read. I agree that its not possible to perform at a level above what we are capable of. I actually think what we are seeing unfold is BB's "no ceiling" policy. The guy has totally deprogrammed out any thoughts of preconceptions/limitations from our whole list. they are nearly all performing at levels that would have thought unlikely last year. Run through the list...
Bryce- last game say no more
Jones- ridiculous
4 rising stars !
charlie about to launch
zac
jack
The Back Line

 

[Malifice]

I watched the GWS game today. Dylan Shiel is a gun! I would much prefer taking our draft picks and then pick up this guy as a fa than spend big on Kelly. He is an inside/outside tough midfielder and would be a massive inclusion in 2 years time. I hope those posters who have suggested he wants to finish his career at Carlton are correct.

A few posters have mentioned that Hopper is sure to go to Geelong, I hope we can get him as he would be perfect for us.

He's dominant both inside and outside, and racks up huge metres gained. I'm a massive fan. I would love to see him next to Cripps extracting the ball.

I would be shocked if we didnt throw a crap load of money at him when he becomes a free agent in two years.