Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Pafloyul]

Yep talk gibbs into staying long term and I'd be more than happy giving up this yrs and next yrs 1st for kelly and hopper. How good would our midfield be

5 + 10 is a premium for Kelly.
15 for Hopper is about right.
If we're throwing in 37 I'd want their 2018 second rounder coming back.

Other than that it seems equitable. Turns Gibbs, Casboult and Pick 5 in Kelly, Hopper and a future late second.

Gord! Today's game should show people that we still have a fair way to go, stop this crap about trading ourselves out of the draft!

 

[reubsblues]

Gord! Today's game should show people that we still have a fair way to go, stop this crap about trading ourselves out of the draft!

Disagree kelly is 22 and hopper is 20 your getting to genuine superstar kelly and i hugely talented hopper both ten yr players both ready to go your not guaranteed that with draft picks

 

[Carl]

Out of all this FA chasing talk we've been doing, this is the one we really have to go after imo.

In a couple of years, our younger players will obviously be more established and we will need to add that extra elite player to make our push towards a flag.

Considering our recent climb up the ladder, our 1st pick this year has dropped out of the top 3. If it's a top 3 pick end of season, we keep it, if not, we put it towards getting Kelly and Hopper along with whatever we get for Gibbs.

So let's say we end up with pick #5.

We get pick #10 + #15 from the Crows for Gibbs. (They'll get #10 from WCE for McGovern I reckon)

Cas band 4 FA gives us pick #37

#5 + #10 + #15 + #37 > GWS
Kelly + Hopper > Carlton

That we we keep our first for next year's draft. Spend it on the best mid available, then end of 2019 season we get Shiel.

Our midfield in 2020:

Cripps + Kelly + SPS + Shiel + Cuningham + Hopper + 2018 1st pick

Pick 10 and 15 for Gibbs? Lets be realistic. If he still wants to go home it will be a 1st rounder and loose change. Maybe our 3rd and 4th rounder for their 2nd and 3rd rounder depending on ladder position. Problem is he's too old to be worth 2 1st rounders. If he was worth 2 1st rounders, Adelaide would have paid it last year when he was a year younger.

 

[jackn]

Pick 10 and 15 for Gibbs? Lets be realistic. If he still wants to go home it will be a 1st rounder and loose change. Maybe our 3rd and 4th rounder for their 2nd and 3rd rounder depending on ladder position. Problem is he's too old to be worth 2 1st rounders. If he was worth 2 1st rounders, Adelaide would have paid it last year when he was a year younger.

If he keeps up his form and Adelaide miss out on a flag, they'd be stupid not to pay 2 first rounders. He's not going anywhere for 1 until the year prior to his contract expiring. If they want success before their current stars are done, they'll need to cough up.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Pick 10 and 15 for Gibbs? Lets be realistic. If he still wants to go home it will be a 1st rounder and loose change. Maybe our 3rd and 4th rounder for their 2nd and 3rd rounder depending on ladder position. Problem is he's too old to be worth 2 1st rounders. If he was worth 2 1st rounders, Adelaide would have paid it last year when he was a year younger.

There's already talk that they're regretting not doing that last year. They're close to a flag and its clear Gibbs would go a long way to helping them get there. 2 first rounders isn't too much to pay for a flag, especially this year the draft is said to be very thin.

 

[No1Suspect]

Disagree kelly is 22 and hopper is 20 your getting to genuine superstar kelly and i hugely talented hopper both ten yr players both ready to go your not guaranteed that with draft picks

Exactly, we arent trading for 27 year old players. Theres 10 years left in both. No waiting for output either. We need mature mids these guys are seasoned.

Put those 2 in this years draft and theyre both top 5 absolute minimum.

 

[BluesRule]

Exactly, we arent trading for 27 year old players. Theres 10 years left in both. No waiting for output either. We need mature mids these guys are seasoned.

Put those 2 in this years draft and theyre both top 5 absolute minimum.

Think it is very unlikely we get both,

But if we lose Gibbs and get in Hopper at least the damage is minimised.

So we help GWS keep Kelly by taking Hooper and his large salary demands off their hands is win/win

 

[BluesRule]

There's already talk that they're regretting not doing that last year. They're close to a flag and its clear Gibbs would go a long way to helping them get there. 2 first rounders isn't too much to pay for a flag, especially this year the draft is said to be very thin.

Agree they are regretting it, but our midfield would be even more over-run without Gibbs.

We will need him next year without a doubt, but if we are fairly compensated we would compassionately let him go home (and let him get more $$$).

No way we should let Gibbs go unless we are fairly compensated which is at least one high end draft pick (#3-7) or two low end draft picks #16+. Up to Adelaide to find the pick(s) or players we want.

 

[thylacine60]

or the crows gagf

 

[found object]

or the crows gagf

This!

 

[gab213]

or the crows gagf

That would be the preferred option for me.

 

[Pafloyul]

Disagree kelly is 22 and hopper is 20 your getting to genuine superstar kelly and i hugely talented hopper both ten yr players both ready to go your not guaranteed that with draft picks

We'll be giving up more than a single high pick each for those two and our needs run deeper than just a few top-line mids. We are getting ahead of ourselves and threatening to do the Judd thing all over again. I'm not against trading away one first rounder (providing it's not too high) and a bit extra for Kelly but I don't really want Hopper unless things change. We are not winning the premiership in the next few years so we need to be subtle.

 

[Pafloyul]

Exactly, we arent trading for 27 year old players. Theres 10 years left in both. No waiting for output either. We need mature mids these guys are seasoned.

Put those 2 in this years draft and theyre both top 5 absolute minimum.

I doubt Hopper would go in the top four in this year's draft if he were still a junior. It falls away pretty badly but there will be some real standouts at the very peak come season's end.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Agree they are regretting it, but our midfield would be even more over-run without Gibbs.

We will need him next year without a doubt, but if we are fairly compensated we would compassionately let him go home (and let him get more $$$).

No way we should let Gibbs go unless we are fairly compensated which is at least one high end draft pick (#3-7) or two low end draft picks #16+. Up to Adelaide to find the pick(s) or players we want.

Losing Gibbs shouldn't have a huge impact if we bring in Kelly and Hopper.

It's how we use the picks we get for him that counts. We know we're getting a late 1st rounder. Not like we will get a gun player with that this year especially. So best option is to couple it with another couple of picks to get Kelly and Hopper in.

 

[Jimmae]

I doubt Hopper would go in the top four in this year's draft if he were still a junior. It falls away pretty badly but there will be some real standouts at the very peak come season's end.

And what's more, he's not developed in the two years he's been there. There's mitigating circumstances behind that, as there always is, but he's something of a write-off for them between that and his increasing salary demands.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Yeah he would be coal face for us which is what suits him more
Probably a similar pick or just better to Steele

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Think it is very unlikely we get both,

But if we lose Gibbs and get in Hopper at least the damage is minimised.

So we help GWS keep Kelly by taking Hooper and his large salary demands off their hands is win/win

We actually need Kelly for Murphy and our first then hopper wth a second
I doubt hopper is worth anything in the top fifteen right now

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I posted it in the chicken little thread but is probably better placed here.. Given KPD is our strength and with Jones, Marchbank, Plowman, Mcreadie, Silvagni... Would a trade with GWS Weitering for Kelly & Hopper be a good result for us, and is it something they would consider?

 

[Jimmae]

I posted it in the chicken little thread but is probably better placed here.. Given KPD is our strength and with Jones, Marchbank, Plowman, Mcreadie, Silvagni... Would a trade with GWS Weitering for Kelly & Hopper be a good result for us, and is it something they would consider?

No and yes.

 

[gab213]

I posted it in the chicken little thread but is probably better placed here.. Given KPD is our strength and with Jones, Marchbank, Plowman, Mcreadie, Silvagni... Would a trade with GWS Weitering for Kelly & Hopper be a good result for us, and is it something they would consider?

I'm sure that GWS would consider it but I can't see us doing it.

Silvagni definitely won't be playing at the time Weitering is at his peak and there's every chance Jones wouldn't be either.

I also think he's a class above everyone else you have mentioned.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I'm sure that GWS would consider it but I can't see us doing it.

Silvagni definitely won't be playing at the time Weitering is at his peak and there's every chance Jones wouldn't be either.

I also think he's a class above everyone else you have mentioned.

I agree and i rate him extremely highly, however i also rate Josh Kelly extremely highly.. Weitering has the potential to be the best defender in the game and Kelly has the potential to be the best midfielder in the game.. So for me its like having a choice between Rance & Dangerfield and working out which player would best help deliver us to a premiership.

 

[omdd]

I agree and i rate him extremely highly, however i also rate Josh Kelly extremely highly.. Weitering has the potential to be the best defender in the game and Kelly has the potential to be the best midfielder in the game.. So for me its like having a choice between Rance & Dangerfield and working out which player would best help deliver us to a premiership.

Midfielders tend to chase the money more it'll be much easier to get kelly as a free agent than weitering in however many years time, just like your example i cant see rance leaving richmond but danger was much easier to buy.

 

[Cripps17]

SOS hasn't targeted KPPs in our rebuild first so that we could trade them for mids later.

 

[BluesRule]

SOS hasn't targeted KPPs in our rebuild first so that we could trade them for mids later.

Are you sure. KPD's value will be increasing as we are cornering the market. Following the Gibbs for Lever swap CFC will have a monopoly to exploit...

 

[ShanDog]

SOS hasn't targeted KPPs in our rebuild first so that we could trade them for mids later.

Actually I'd argue he's done just that. IF our talls all come on and show they belong at AFL level, there's no way we keep them all.

GWS are going to have a long run of having quality players not in their 22 because of over-the-top concessions when they started. As long as they keep getting draft picks right, they will continue to trade out fringe players for decent picks and continue the cycle. If we can get on board a system like that, it improves the chances of sustained access to early draft picks and long term success.