Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[DangerousD]

Then you do it as a 3 way trade. This is Big Footy which has absolutely no place for technicalities.


You absolutely positively put-your-balls-on-a-guillotine sure about that, because I'm not. http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/out_of_contract_players.

• Did anyone seriously think Chris Mayne is worth 4 years @ $500k??? We are talking about the Pies here.
• Fact: Liam Jones is the No.1 intercept player per possession in the AFL. Embrace the beast.
• There are plenty here who think Casboult is worth a 2nd Round Pick including me and there's absolutely no way I'd be prepared to part with Jones unless it was absolutely worth our while. Pick 6 for a combo of Casboult & Jones is a scenario that I'd entertain. Is it highly unlikely??? Yes....but I did state that.

I'll put my nuts on Cas being unrestricted.

Mayne and Wells got good deals because they were free agents.
Cas imo is worth a 2nd round pick but not in the top 25.

Your trade scenario for jones and Cas for pick 6 makes absolute no sense. If the pies wanted both, they get Cas as a FA then trade for Jones with a late 2nd. No team gives up high picks like that.

 

[BluesRule]

And what has any of that got to do with a PP?

PP #1 in 2001 was used by the Hawks to get Luke Hodge. Deal with it...

 

[DangerousD]

Bullocks. Heres a few early PPs they had...

2001 Pick 1 Luke Hodge Hawthorn, pick traded from Fremantle
2004 Pick 2 Jarryd Roughead Hawthorn
2005 Pick 3 Xavier Ellis Hawthorn

Tell me those players did not help them rebuild.

Only Roughead is a PP

Hodge was a trade and Ellis was a draft pick.

 

[Neadsy83]

As I said a week or two ago, and got howled down for. We should definitely apply for a PP.

The worst that can happen is the AFL say no.

Think we have some grounds for one though. Potentially about to finish last again this year. With no more than 5 wins.

Arguablly our best midfielder (Gibbs) could be leaving. Yes we will get some thing back in the door for him, but it could just be young talent, meaning we probably go slightly backwards next year again.

Also our main target up forward could be leaving.

We have to ask for one. Look we might get one at the pointy end of the draft, might get a 2nd round pick (which we currently don't have)... Or we might get nothing.

We are negligent if we don't ask the question.

Totally agree, we most definitely should apply. By seasons end we may have only won 3-4 more games than Brisbane from the previous 4 seasons. We are currently looking at 23 wins from 88 games (26% win ratio) says it all. Brisbane received a pick and I like our chances.. At the very least the AFL could then do us a favour and award a 2nd round compo pick for Casboult even if the money equates to a 3rd round pick. Either way we get back into the 2nd round or best case scenario is a Pick 18 & Pick 21!

 

[Jimmae]

Pick 5, pick 38 (crows) > Gibbs, 2018 2nd round

No

Pick 1 > Kelly

Maybe, but would try for some of their depth too

Pick 5 > Redpath, pick 12

No

Pick 12, Byrne > Hopper, Smith

No

Pick 54 > Balic

OK

Pick 38 > Dureya

No

Pick 20 > Castagna

No

 

[Wily trout]

I still think the AFL owe us for the over-reaction to our salary cap breaches. Our penalty was designed to destroy the club at a time the AFL were seeking to decrease the number of teams in Melbourne. There has never been a comparable penalty delivered by the AFL. That we survived is amazing,

and I know we have F*****d up since (whoever thought removing Ratten was a good idea ... etc.) but even Essendon got a #1 draft pick, were allowed to trade players, were given top up players, etc. when they orchestrated 34 players taking Performancing Drugs. Hardly an even AFL competition so if we can get a PP I am all for it.

And keep some of those 'top up' players. Can't remember specific on how they were allowed to though.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

PP #1 in 2001 was used by the Hawks to get Luke Hodge. Deal with it...

What the hell you on about. They traded for pick 1

 

[ShanDog]

Did the ladder predictor and I think there's a good chance North, Brisbane and us will all be on 5 wins at the end of the season before North and Brisbane play each other in the last round at the Gabba.

If that's the case, a Lions win puts us on the bottom and a North win finished us 17th. Will be really weird feelings watching that game!

 

[Arr0w]

Did the ladder predictor and I think there's a good chance North, Brisbane and us will all be on 5 wins at the end of the season before North and Brisbane play each other in the last round at the Gabba.

If that's the case, a Lions win puts us on the bottom and a North win finished us 17th. Will be really weird feelings watching that game!

I know that getting another wooden spoon, is added to our history forever, but the benefits are endless if all of Kelly, Hopper and Smith nominate us as a destination

If we traded Gibbs for a mid round 1st and 2nd, I could argue a case for getting all those players without giving up that 1st pick

 

[ShanDog]

I know that getting another wooden spoon, is added to our history forever, but the benefits are endless if all of Kelly, Hopper and Smith nominate us as a destination

If we traded Gibbs for a mid round 1st and 2nd, I could argue a case for getting all those players without giving up that 1st pick

I don't give a stuff about spoons. If you don't win the flag, it doesn't matter where you finish. Of course, I completely understand people who get angry or upset coming last. I was the same when a bit younger.

 

[katmanblue]

Personally think we should apply and also be granted one. Why not, we will finish bottom two, yes with plenty of good kids coming through. I can't see it affecting memberships or member's excitement about our direction. Last year we took Palmer and Smedts. People were surprised but no big deal, we knew why. When said PP is running around with thirty games under his belt showing he belongs, who will care how we got him? The point is we would have access to another potentially good young player. Pride plays a role, yes, but I would prefer a little pride sting and a good kid on the list.

Amen brother.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ParapMarkets]

I don't give a stuff about spoons. If you don't win the flag, it doesn't matter where you finish. Of course, I completely understand people who get angry or upset coming last. I was the same when a bit younger.

Finishing 17th (or even 16th) with 5 wins really doesn't give me any comfort compared to finishing last with 5 wins.

 

[katmanblue]

Surely we are not entitled to a priority pick just because we finish second last? Pretty much all agree that the root of our problems have been self inflicted. Why reward incompetence?

It's the afl sop

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katmanblue]

Yeah, this board can be like that at times.
We'll finish with 5 wins for the year, so I don't see why we wouldn't apply for one.
If I was in charge i'd be applying.

Not even considering it because of pride would indicate incompetent management.

If due consideration is given and a decision is made against applying, then that is fine.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Azul]

pride would indicate incompetent management.

We were incompetently managed before Bolton walked in the door.

That's not to say we wouldn't benefit from a helping hand for a team that is on the up but still manages to lose the final 10 matches of the season due to the evolution of its playing list.

Pride? Finishing 13th, 18th, 14th and now 17th is nothing to be proud of.

 

[katmanblue]

Agree Brisbane got a PP last year. No one remembers...

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katmanblue]

We were incompetently managed before Bolton walked in the door.

That's not to say we wouldn't benefit from a helping hand for a team that is on the up but still manages to lose the final 10 matches of the season due to the evolution of its playing list.

Pride? Finishing 13th, 18th, 14th and now 17th is nothing to be proud of.

Thats my point exactly.

People are saying they would rather not ask for a pp and that asking makes us look like a basket case.

Yeah, no (excrement) Sherlock. We have been for almost 2 decades.


Azul - the above wasnt aimed at you. Just people who dont agree with us. [emoji6]

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BluesRule]

Only Roughead is a PP

Hodge was a trade and Ellis was a draft pick.

LOL BF Facts again...
Hodge may have been a trade but it was only possible due to the PP system that the Hawks snagged in a trade.

Have a look at 2004 and 2005...

2 Priority Jarryd Roughead Hawthorn 249
National 1 5 Lance Franklin Sydney 182
National 1 7 Jordan Lewis Melbourne 264
National 2 21 Thomas Murphy 95
National 2 26 Matthew Little 1
National 4 53 Simon Taylor 85
Rookie 1 2 Ruory Kirkby 0
Rookie 2 18 Clinton Young 116
Rookie 3 34 Thomas Willday 0
Rookie 4 48 Kristan Height 0

3 Priority Xavier Ellis 86
National 1 6 Beau Dowler 16
National 1 14 Grant Birchall Hawthorn 245
National 1 18 Max Bailey 43
National 2 22 Beau Muston 13
National 3 38 Father/Son Travis Tuck 20
Pre-Season 1 3 Brent Guerra 159
Rookie 1 3 Luke McEntee 0
Rookie 2 19 Lukas Markovic 0
Rookie 3 34 Stephen Gilham 98
Rookie 4 46 Ben Kane 9
Rookie 5 55 Ben McGlynn 44

If the Hawks bottom out do you think they will hesitate to ask for a PP again?

 

[Jimthegreat]

I'll put my nuts on Cas being unrestricted.

Mayne and Wells got good deals because they were free agents.
Cas imo is worth a 2nd round pick but not in the top 25.

Your trade scenario for jones and Cas for pick 6 makes absolute no sense. If the pies wanted both, they get Cas as a FA then trade for Jones with a late 2nd. No team gives up high picks like that.

Casboult is an unrestricted free agent.

 

[DangerousD]

LOL BF Facts again...
Hodge may have been a trade but it was only possible due to the PP system that the Hawks snagged in a trade.

Have a look at 2004 and 2005...

2 Priority Jarryd Roughead Hawthorn 249
National 1 5 Lance Franklin Sydney 182
National 1 7 Jordan Lewis Melbourne 264
National 2 21 Thomas Murphy 95
National 2 26 Matthew Little 1
National 4 53 Simon Taylor 85
Rookie 1 2 Ruory Kirkby 0
Rookie 2 18 Clinton Young 116
Rookie 3 34 Thomas Willday 0
Rookie 4 48 Kristan Height 0

3 Priority Xavier Ellis 86
National 1 6 Beau Dowler 16
National 1 14 Grant Birchall Hawthorn 245
National 1 18 Max Bailey 43
National 2 22 Beau Muston 13
National 3 38 Father/Son Travis Tuck 20
Pre-Season 1 3 Brent Guerra 159
Rookie 1 3 Luke McEntee 0
Rookie 2 19 Lukas Markovic 0
Rookie 3 34 Stephen Gilham 98
Rookie 4 46 Ben Kane 9
Rookie 5 55 Ben McGlynn 44

If the Hawks bottom out do you think they will hesitate to ask for a PP again?

My mistake, Roughy and Elliss were both PP handed to the Hawks. Of course they would, i have no question, I'm not disputing that.

 

[Wickzki]

They didn't happen to mention any interest in Redpath?

No. I get the impression they're happy to have development from the trio of young forwards we already have.

PP #1 in 2001 was used by the Hawks to get Luke Hodge. Deal with it...

The point is they weren't gifted a PP. They traded what another team were valuable assets for it.

It'd be like saying that if Brisbane got a PP ahead of their own first round pick this year and we traded Murphy for it that we were given a PP.

 

[reubsblues]

Just a hypothetical if we are happy to give up gibbs and Casboult we may as well give up Murphy i recon he would be perfect at the saints and they have 2 first round picks this yr

 

[My name geoff]

No


Maybe, but would try for some of their depth too

No

No

OK

No

No

Is that no as in they would never go for it or no as in we would never offer it?

 

[Shambolic]

I

I don't give a stuff about spoons. If you don't win the flag, it doesn't matter where you finish. Of course, I completely understand people who get angry or upset coming last. I was the same when a bit younger.

I hate getting spoons as I'm the one who has to update the Blueseum wooden spoons page.

 

[reubsblues]

* Gibbs -Ade
* Ade - lever/Mcgovern pick + 2nd - Carl
* Carl - lever/Mcgovern pick + 2018
1st to Giants for Kelly
* Carl - Murphy to Saints for 1st + ?
* Casboult compo to suns for Saad
* Redpath for 4th rounder
* Balic for later pick
* go to the draft with pick 1-3 Rayner
Saints first 6-7 Higgins
Net loss Gibbs,Murphy,Casboult 2018 1st
Net gain Kelly, Saad,Rayner, Higgins, Redpath,Balic