Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Soapy V]

What's everyone's thoughts on Doc? Specifically so we think he ends up a mid FT? He's moved in there lately but that might be more because we are short of numbers right now?

Personally I see him as a mid but we'd have to unearth some excellent HBs to replace he and Simmo.

I think he is a good midfielder versus a very good defender. Creates so much from defence so leave him there. Get Kelly or Hopper maybe Balic plus a few more good draft picks, improvement in Cuningham Polson Fisher Charlie along with a fit Cripps & Curnow and our midfield starts to look okay

 

[Jimmae]

It won't come to this, but I'd be thrilled should Gibbs & Murphy net us Kelly & Hopper.
Some more would have to go out, but it may not amount to this years first pick.

Would something like be a start point;
Gibbs (what we get from Adelaide) , Murphy and Carltons next years first and a salary dump for Kelly, Hopper and GWS's next years first?

That sounds absolutely disasterous.

You have been pushing this barrow all year, and your scenarios offer no numerical improvement within a 4-year window, if at all. Please stop, and please stop calling the Tuohy scenario a clear win/win.

We cannot afford to shift Gibbs and Murphy and wind up with so little to show for it.

 

[Red Bull]

lol, now we are talking about trading Murphy on top of Gibbs and we already have the worst midfield in the AFL?

Lol , gotta win the next game we play ... its paramount to win that game ... its all that matters ... win that next game at all costs !!

The only way Gibbs and Murphy fit into Silvagni's master plan for the future is how can they help facilitate it ...

 

[ferrisb]

Whats the go with Jaksch ?? He seems to always be in the best for Northerns but cant get a run, wouldnt he be worth a crack for the last few games to see how he goes ??

I think if he hasn't been played by now, he ain't getting played ever.

 

[Soapy V]

Blues on hunt for mids

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2017-08-03/blues-on-hunt-for-mids


Welcome to Carlton Josh Kelly

Great to always here Trigg and Co sticking to the plan and going to the draft. Once again it sounds like some more big cuts and a number of draft picks with mids being the target. Great stuff

 

[HalAlaric]

All good prospects but will come down to how SOS see's them in helping our cause and the trade cost. Do not want VFL players.

Really want to keep early picks as their is supposedly not much after the top 30 in the AFL draft, so we could trade in a few talented youngsters using later picks/$$$.

What about Hugh Greenwood (adelaide) = Big bodied 190+cm 25 year old midfield rookie, who is a bit player for Adelaide. I think he has a lot of upside and we know Adelaide are tight for cash. Would want to trade him in cheaply, maybe as steak knifes in Gibbs deal. Tasmanian boy. Imagine a bit more size in the middle.

or Bailey Dale (Dogs) is out of contract. Showed good signs in our game with Dogs but is not a lock for midfield games at the Dogs. Is developing and may have upside. Would cost our third round pick and $50K-$100K pa more than Dogs are offering. Would upgrade our midfield depth and would get games in 2018.

Both interesting prospects. Haven't seen enough of either player to really give an opinion on whether they would be valuable to our list but have heard plenty of fans and other BF posters rave about the two.
Greenwood is a ex basketballer, yes? If so isn't he a CAT B Rookie and if so, what do we need to do in order to trade?

 

[Soapy V]

I think if he hasn't been played by now, he ain't getting played ever.

Hasn't even been an emergency all year and even after 4 goals last week comments from coach weren't that encouraging

 

[HARKER]

That sounds absolutely disasterous.
You have been pushing this barrow all year, and your scenarios offer no numerical improvement within a 4-year window, if at all. Please stop, and please stop calling the Tuohy scenario a clear win/win.
We cannot afford to shift Gibbs and Murphy and wind up with so little to show for it.

Re. Tuohy: Who is it a loss for? Carlton got what they wanted, Geelong got what they wanted and Tuohy is getting a lot more money. Where's the loss?

Here's some bad news for you then. Murphy is 30 and won't be around for any Premiership tilt.
Gibbs wanted to go last year and may be allowed to leave this year........so where's the harm?

Not sure how anyone can lose themselves when bringing these facts up. Seem to be fair play to me.

 

[BluesRule]

Hasn't even been an emergency all year and even after 4 goals last week comments from coach weren't that encouraging

Would we swap him with Lennon from Tigers?
Both first round picks who are not getting played?

 

[1981]

The talk from Trigg of adding experience to midfield suggests trading Gibbs AND Murphy is not on the cards

I made such a point not long ago. It's one thing to improve by way of trading an old for a new (and even then is Gibbs really that old, I mean he's been very durable) but it's another to actually get a net gain in quality mids and I think given our depth issues this is what the plan ought to be

How to get a +1 or +2 or even +3 in midfield

That's why Kelly for Gibbs alone doesn't appeal so much for me as its not a net gain

Keep Gibbs and trade 2 for Kelly and use Levi's 19 on the best available mid

There's a +1 min and maybe a +2 if SOS picks well, notwithstanding we are minus an experienced big fwd

Reality though is Gibbs is likely to leave, I think

I'd like to think we'd get a good mid at 10 if there's a three way trade

So trade 2 for Kelly and take a mid at 10 and also at 19 and we might be +2 if SOS picks well

 

[BluesRule]

Both interesting prospects. Haven't seen enough of either player to really give an opinion on whether they would be valuable to our list but have heard plenty of fans and other BF posters rave about the two.
Greenwood is a ex basketballer, yes? If so isn't he a CAT B Rookie and if so, what do we need to do in order to trade?

As long as we offer a list spot (not a rookie spot) I understand there is no problem

 

[Soapy V]

Would we swap him with Lennon from Tigers?
Both first round picks who are not getting played?

I don't rate either so a waste of time IMO. Not sure Richmond would do that deal

Jaksch just lacks the intensity/desire/work ethic to be an AFL player.

 

[HARKER]

I don't rate either so a waste of time IMO. Not sure Richmond would do that deal
Jaksch just lacks the intensity/desire/work ethic to be an AFL player.

I don't know and if that has been the case the last few weeks then so be it, but that wasn't the case in all the games I watched earlier this year.

 

[Azul]

Re. Tuohy: Who is it a loss for? Carlton got what they wanted, Geelong got what they wanted and Tuohy is getting a lot more money. Where's the loss?

By giving Tuohy away for nothing, we strengthen Geelong's dynasty. They get a best 22 player for a mere 2-4 pick downgrade. One may say it doesn't matter to Carlton in the scheme of things but it's how Geelong challenge for their 4th or 5th flag without rebuilding.

 

[Soapy V]

I don't know and if that has been the case the last few weeks then so be it, but that wasn't the case in all the games I watched earlier this year.

I think it's fair to say we have a completely different opinion of him. IMO he isn't even close to AFL standard and not just for the reasons I mentioned

 

[BluesRule]

The talk from Trigg of adding experience to midfield suggests trading Gibbs AND Murphy is not on the cards

I made such a point not long ago. It's one thing to improve by way of trading an old for a new (and even then is Gibbs really that old, I mean he's been very durable) but it's another to actually get a net gain in quality mids and I think given our depth issues this is what the plan ought to be

How to get a +1 or +2 or even +3 in midfield

That's why Kelly for Gibbs alone doesn't appeal so much for me as its not a net gain

Keep Gibbs and trade 2 for Kelly and use Levi's 19 on the best available mid

There's a +1 min and maybe a +2 if SOS picks well, notwithstanding we are minus an experienced big fwd

Reality though is Gibbs is likely to leave, I think

I'd like to think we'd get a good mid at 10 if there's a three way trade

So trade 2 for Kelly and take a mid at 10 and also at 19 and we might be +2 if SOS picks well

I think Kelly is a net gain on Gibbs, as Gibbs has 3-4 more years of AFL and Kelly has 7-8+ (Double)

I Really want to keep pick #2, so if trading Gibbs for say #10 + Greenwood and then on trading #10 and Murphy for Kelly works we would end up with 2 midfielders with 7-8 years, and #2 with 10+ years future. Next year we may drop off without Murphy and Gibbs but think 3-5 years forward as we are rebuilding.

 

[HARKER]

By giving Tuohy away for nothing, we strengthen Geelong's dynasty. They get a best 22 player for a mere 2-4 pick downgrade. One may say it doesn't matter to Carlton in the scheme of things but it's how Geelong challenge for their 4th or 5th flag without rebuilding.

We didn't give him away for nothing.
We gave him away for what we needed to acquire Marchbank & Pickett. Big difference.

 

[HARKER]

I think it's fair to say we have a completely different opinion of him. IMO he isn't even close to AFL standard and not just for the reasons I mentioned

If whether he stays or is de-listed determines who's right or wrong, I feel you'll win.

I'd keep him and continue playing him forward and not play ping-pong with his position.

48. Kristian Jaksch
Stats: 10 disposals, 4 goals
From the coach: Pleasingly, I thought his aerial contest was much better and he applied pressure at ground level on his way to finishing with four goals, which was a good reward for him. We need that as a base-line game for him.

What the coach said this week.
He may get that as a base game should be plant him in the one base.

 

[Azul]

We didn't give him away for nothing.

A minor pick downgrade plus Smedts is nothing for them.

It worked out for us but don't kid yourself Geelong weren't laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[BluesRule]

I don't rate either so a waste of time IMO. Not sure Richmond would do that deal

Jaksch just lacks the intensity/desire/work ethic to be an AFL player.

Fair enough. Lennon does not have too many fans but he seems to be playing well in the VFL and cannot get a crack at the AFL due to the tigers mosquito fleet. Clearly surplus to their needs and they are crying out for tall KP's. KJ is young enough to improve.

 

[HARKER]

A minor pick downgrade plus Smedts is nothing for them.

It worked out for us but don't kid yourself Geelong weren't laughing all the way to the bank.

But who cares whether Geelong were laughing?
We're in no position to cut our nose to spite our face.

Everyone won. That's a good thing for future trading. Would you take Henderson back and give away Mckay? I'll answer that for you; NO

 

[Soapy V]

If whether he stays or is de-listed determines who's right or wrong, I feel you'll win.

I'd keep him and continue playing him forward and not play ping-pong with his position.

If he can stand up and become a key forward that would be great. We need them. More than happy to be proven wrong like with Jones. Just can't see it in him. Long long way from AFL level at the moment.

 

[HARKER]

If he can stand up and become a key forward that would be great. We need them. More than happy to be proven wrong like with Jones. Just can't see it in him. Long long way from AFL level at the moment.

Jones has always had AFL traits and now uses them in a position where he is making best use of them, but he is playing in an organised back-line

Jaksch is a forward that can take the ball at the highest point and kick straight from 50 out, regularly.
He's one of the best kicks at the club and that wouldn't change at the higher level, but he may likely be playing in an unorganised forward line.

Whichever way, Jaksch may not be a long term answer and certainly not playing back.
Just would have been nice had have we played him in a position and allowed him to breathe.

 

[thylacine60]

Yeah, this board can be like that at times.
We'll finish with 5 wins for the year, so I don't see why we wouldn't apply for one.
If I was in charge i'd be applying.

Doesn't even realise he is in charge.

 

[katmanblue]

A minor pick downgrade plus Smedts is nothing for them.

It worked out for us but don't kid yourself Geelong weren't laughing all the way to the bank.

Thats the way the best trades work. We got Marchy without giving up Sps pick. Geelong got 2e for a pick downgrade.

Everyone is happy. Means future trading is easier too.

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