Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[HARKER]

The players vote for the captain

What do you mean?
Watch Malthouses presser when Murphy was announced captain.
I have my read on it but of course I may be wrong. What did you pick up?

 

[Soapy V]

Sorry I meant Boek will be at Carlton. I like the kid.

Kid?

 

[Juddernaut08]

There's a significant difference between Boekhurst & Murphy,
As an aside, Kelly isn't exactly fearless & Gibbs avoids contact but is lauded for his durability, whereas Marc who has put his body on the line and suffered significant injuries as a result gets knocked for the moments of self preservation.
The better sides also have blokes who don't always embrace the physical side of the game, they just do a better job of freeing these players up from having to do a lot of the heavy lifting in contests.
All that said, I'm hoping that Boekhurst can become our Isaac Smith. [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

One of isaac smiths key strengths is his endurance. It is much better than most AFL players which gives him a very important edge.

Boekhorst cant even run out a full game mate. I feel like he can be a good player but he'll never be that run all day link up winger like Smith was and is.

 

[My name geoff]

What do you mean?
Watch Malthouses presser when Murphy was announced captain.
I have my read on it but of course I may be wrong. What did you pick up?

I'm not sure about how Malthouse appointed the captain, but I know since Bolton has been in charge it's been a player vote. I don't necessarily agree that murph is the absolute best option to captain the club, but I can't argue with the method of his appointment post reset.

 

[HARKER]

I can't believe people are contemplating giving Boekhorst another year, based on 3 run-of-the-mill games. I would rather free up a spot and select a kid that could grow into a better footballer, or take the likes of a 19 year old Bailey Banfield, who was strangely not selected last year and has been playing some very good football in WA

Boekhorst is not up to AFL standard, despite showing some glimpses. He is and will always be a nervous footballer, it's time to move forward

Then you must find it hard to contemplate why he is being given games in our senior team.
Why not Buckley, Palmer, Sumner, Gallucci etc?

Let's not worry about what people contemplate as we were saying the same thing last year and...........presto........a one year contract.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

You're looking at it from the wrong way. you need to rank your players from worst to best (taking into account potential). and then delist the bottom the very most 10 in a very good draft because you won't get AFL quality talent that late.

Why delist boekhorst, when based off of what he's shown he's already got more upside to him than Buckley, Jacksh, Sumner, Palmer, Graham, Gorringe, White, Galluci, Korchek & Smedts.

Whoever we pick up with our last rookie pick (regardless of whether boekhorst plays on or not) is less likely to be in our team going forward than boekhorst.

I have considered that. Boekhurst plays a role that is very easy to cover. Sumner even though I'm not a fan play a fwd role as well where we have hardly any proven depth. Graham i dislike a lot also... but we are short of inside midfield types. I want rid of all three in reality but Boek goes early. As Arrow said, Boek for mine is a proven nervous footballer at AFL level. Yes, he didnt look like it in two games but he is at def con 5 for his football life. Backed into a corner, anyone shows fight.

 

[ferrisb]

Didnt ask for your trade Gibbs spiel have seen it more than enough . Was simply stating the facts Gibbs has a 5 year contract with 2 to run so the clubs thinking is clearly at odds to yours....

Gibbs signed his 5 year contract back in 2014? The club was a different place back then.

Just because he's half way through a long-term contract doesn't mean the club wouldn't view him as a possible piece of value for the rebuild...

 

[Kramer1]

I'm delisting 8 from the primary list alone before I'm looking at Boekhorst. He's shown enough to speculate for another year.

 

[ferrisb]

Boekhorst's future is in some hack country town where the annual competition is to hurl the skinny guy over a boundary fence instead of a discus.

Do you see romance in thylacine60's future?

 

[katmanblue]

Kid?

G.O.A.T. obviously.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[thylacine60]

anybody? anybody at all?

 

[DangerousD]

I think what you miss is that there is a HUGE correlation between 1) contract renewal years and form, and 2) best form displayed prior to delistings. Graham is also displaying his best form in the VFL ever. Why do you think that is? Its our list manager's responsibility to see through these short term form spikes! Boekhurst has had his chance in not just AFL games but VFL games. He has been poor many a time in the VFL which is a huge drop. Guy is mugging you off for a new 300-400 payday before he reverts to who he is. That is a player out of his weight division...and I don't mean weight literally.

Murph (completely outside now and no other position suits), Williamson, SPS, Fisher can all spend time out on the wing next year.

I know we have a lot to delist. Only saving grace of your insight.

The new Carlton needs to see through these guys that turn up at death's door and show a little form. Even Bolton has said show consistency over the journey. Boek has not even been close over his time at Carlton. It's not even about possessions...aside from 2-3 games, he has shown no 'INTENT'.

Utter garbage, Graham having his best VFL season ever, Graham has been a class above VFL the last few seasons. What evidence do you have to support this HUGE correlation between contract renewal years and form? Has Liam Jones just been fooling everyone has he? Do you still think Gibbs only played well in his contract year too?

Marc Murphy completely outside? You obviously don't take notice of any stats, how is a player who is totally outside 2nd at our club in contested possessions?

What VFL games of Boek are you talking about? Overtime he has been dropped to the VFL this year he has gone back and done his job, playing really good solid games. He is in his third year of AFL and has shown in the past couple of weeks that he can make it.

Your comments on Murphy border on ridiculous

 

[DangerousD]

Still don't think he will be far off. My guess is around 10-12. In the Gun

Graham Boekhurst Gorringe Smedts Thomas Jaksch Armfield Sumner Palmer plus Casboult & Maybe Gibbs off the main list

Korcheck Gallucci Sheehan & G-Mac off the Rookie List

As I have said it will depend a lot on what happens during Trade Week and whether we want to pay off some small contracts.


PS Just on Pure Footy, Daisy Thomas has been rated "poor" by Champion Data. Apparently lowest you can have based on Stats and effectiveness

Big difference having 10-12 in the gun and actually delisting 10-12.

 

[thylacine60]

So this being the last round how soon are the first DCMs likely to occur?

I said...

 

[DangerousD]

I can't believe people are contemplating giving Boekhorst another year, based on 3 run-of-the-mill games. I would rather free up a spot and select a kid that could grow into a better footballer, or take the likes of a 19 year old Bailey Banfield, who was strangely not selected last year and has been playing some very good football in WA

Boekhorst is not up to AFL standard, despite showing some glimpses. He is and will always be a nervous footballer, it's time to move forward

How many players are you delisting this year?
I have a list of 8 and Boek is better than all of them. Better as he hasn't peaked yet and has continually improved where the others have stagnated.

In a supposedly shallow draft where we will already have 5+ picks, what chances do you think we will pick up a player who's better in the 100s?

 

[DangerousD]

Opportunity cost is great. Economics much.

The thing you don't counter-realise is that we cant delist anyone based on your theory. Graham has played 3 good AFL games..so too has D Buckley, so too has Kerridge, Palmer (not for us), Armfield, and White. In the past, we have had sooo many that can put together 2-4 games of form but cant sustain it. Remember Duigan, he put three good games together. Boek is in the same division as K Lucas but yes, has him covered just.

We can still trade for mature players that offer more than him. I dont even want Mcveigh at all, but if you said Mcveigh or Boek; I'd take Mveigh for one more year which is all we would offer Boek anyway. In another year it is Murphy, Williamson and SPS on the wings plus a new kid/trade. Boek will be surplus again.

Some here have fallen for his ruse of a couple of good games in desperation of being unemployed.

What's your list of delisting for the year?

 

[LanceRomance]

anybody? anybody at all?

 

[DangerousD]

With which pick?

I understand wanting to delist him, but there are players well ahead of Boek to be delisted. So it comes down to the probability of getting anyone with more upside in round 4 or 5. It may not be ideal, but I'd rather have him on the list than someone like KJ.

Round 4-5? I have 8 below Boek so if he's gone then it's round 7-8 which is garbage

 

[F_therest]

I'm delisting 8 from the primary list alone before I'm looking at Boekhorst. He's shown enough to speculate for another year.

Also it helps that he is a midfielder.

We're not going to solve our lack of midfield depth all in this off season which would help his chances of staying on...in addition to the fact he's actually been looking quite good recently. Maybe things have finally 'clicked' for him and he understands now what it takes and how to execute his role better.

 

[DangerousD]

I have never disputed that he is talented, unfortunately his body of work should not be viewed as just 3 games, he is been on the list for 3 years. We didn't draft him as an 18 year old, he is 24.

Luke Ryan was a 4th rounder and there are others just like him in the lower leagues

Williamson is a 4th rounder, who would you rather have?

If Boek is the 6th person cut on your list (10th on mine) then he is replaced by our 6th pick.
I'll stick with the kid who's still improving and has just started to realise he belongs

 

[DangerousD]

Not discounting anything at all and some drive and direction would obviously have had to come from our coaches.
The days of 'every man for himself' are gone.

If you invest in a player, you have to lend all of the clubs resources to him.
I can't qualify this, but I understand that Boekhorst has been left unloved at times.
I've said it here many times before, but we won't get the best of this group until SOS and Bolton own them.

Unloved by Bolts and co or are you talking MM year?

 

[gandaal]

What's your list of delisting for the year?

Free Agency:
Casboult

Retired:
Armfield

Delisted:
Buckley
Gorringe
Jaksch
Sumner
White
Graham

Delisted Rookies:
Sheehan
Korcheck
Lebois
Gallucci

Promoted Rookie:
Alex Silvagni

 

[thylacine60]

can you double check the rookie de-listings, g-man - just to be sure to be sure

 

[Funk]

Waite this season has average 2.2 goals per game and 4.9 marks. Thats hardly the stats of someone who is finished. Waite would be free. Gold would not.

Keep that lazy arse away from our club.

Been in the AFL system for 15 years and still doesn't have an "AFL" body - just look at his body shape/skinfolds to work that out.

Has been too lazy to ever get himself properly fit - and that is why he is constantly injured.

Would be a poison to the young players.

DO NOT WANT!!!!!

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Everything goes well for Boekhorst on the field until something goes wrong

That last pass he did to Gibbs was an absolute bullet.....sublime
However, pressure was off, game was over.
He absolutely shit himself earlier on in the game when he had a chance to get the ball fwd to someone in space (can't remember who it was) and completely shanked the kick.
That sums him up to me....no good in the heat of the battle.
Move him on.