Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[DangerousD]

Free Agency:
Casboult

Retired:
Armfield

Delisted:
Buckley
Gorringe
Jaksch
Sumner
White
Graham

Delisted Rookies:
Sheehan
Korcheck
Lebois
Gallucci

Promoted Rookie:
Alex Silvagni

Well if Blaine goes next he will be replaced by a pick in the 150s

 

[gandaal]

can you double check the rookie de-listings, g-man - just to be sure to be sure

I keep calling him Sheeran so you made me nervous for a second.

Sorry to say that Ciaran is probably done.

 

[BuxbaumBixby]

I can't believe people are contemplating giving Boekhorst another year, based on 3 run-of-the-mill games. I would rather free up a spot and select a kid that could grow into a better footballer, or take the likes of a 19 year old Bailey Banfield, who was strangely not selected last year and has been playing some very good football in WA

Boekhorst is not up to AFL standard, despite showing some glimpses. He is and will always be a nervous footballer, it's time to move forward

He needs to build a tank.

That comes down to attitude. I think it comes down to whether he's convinced our guys that he's grown up and is going to put in a massive pre-season (not the last 3 games).

I had Sumner - like many others - waaaay in front of Boek at the start of the year. Really wonder if something else is going on with him as he's had such a disappointing year.

Reckon there's space on the list for either Boek or Sumner (fast creative outside unpredictable)- and at this stage it looks like Boek might be the one to pick.

 

[thylacine60]

speed issues? can't get enough of the sheeran? injuries? come on, give......

 

[DangerousD]

That last pass he did to Gibbs was an absolute bullet.....sublime
However, pressure was off, game was over.
He absolutely shit himself earlier on in the game when he had a chance to get the ball fwd to someone in space (can't remember who it was) and completely shanked the kick.
That sums him up to me....no good in the heat of the battle.
Move him on.

Do he shit himself does that undo all his good work?

 

[gandaal]

Well if Blaine goes next he will be replaced by a pick in the 150s

Yep, although Graham probably has an argument to say that he should be retained ahead of Blaine.

There's a fair chance that both will be kept on the list.

 

[thylacine60]

He needs to build a tank.

That comes down to attitude. I think it comes down to whether he's convinced our guys that he's grown up and is going to put in a massive pre-season (not the last 3 games).

I had Sumner - like many others - waaaay in front of Boek at the start of the year. Really wonder if something else is going on with him as he's had such a disappointing year.

Reckon there's space on the list for either Boek or Sumner (fast creative outside unpredictable)- and at this stage it looks like Boek might be the one to pick.

can he ****ing learn to run instead of jog/shuffling everywhere around the ground, kane lucas style - run like you want to get there, blaine!

 

[gandaal]

speed issues? can't get enough of the sheeran? injuries? come on, give......

His constant injuries have just stalled his development haven't they?

Maybe they'll give him another year due to the sheer number of players that'll need to be delisted, but I'll be surprised. SOS is not a patient man.

 

[Arr0w]

Then you must find it hard to contemplate why he is being given games in our senior team.
Why not Buckley, Palmer, Sumner, Gallucci etc?

Let's not worry about what people contemplate as we were saying the same thing last year and...........presto........a one year contract.

You and I both know that if Cripps, Ed, Cuningham were all fully fit, Boekhorst would struggle to get a game

It just surprises me, that people are happy to give a 24 year old that has shown very little over the last 3 years, a one year contract to be a depth player

Anyway, let's move on

 

[BluesRule]

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...d2=9&type=A&pid1=4050&pid2=4197&fid1=C&fid2=C

Thanks for the comparison. Good insight.

Looks like Boek more outside - higher meters gained/less contested, etc. Balic more inside, younger and probably has a higher ceiling.

Both a little underwhelming so far. Would a swap work? as Freo need speed depth, and we need inside mid depth.

 

[Arr0w]

How many players are you delisting this year?
I have a list of 8 and Boek is better than all of them. Better as he hasn't peaked yet and has continually improved where the others have stagnated.

In a supposedly shallow draft where we will already have 5+ picks, what chances do you think we will pick up a player who's better in the 100s?

Hasn't peaked? How much more improvement do you think he has?

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Do he shit himself does that undo all his good work?

From what I've seen, he shits himself regularly, so yes

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Utter garbage, Graham having his best VFL season ever, Graham has been a class above VFL the last few seasons. What evidence do you have to support this HUGE correlation between contract renewal years and form? Has Liam Jones just been fooling everyone has he? Do you still think Gibbs only played well in his contract year too?

Marc Murphy completely outside? You obviously don't take notice of any stats, how is a player who is totally outside 2nd at our club in contested possessions?

What VFL games of Boek are you talking about? Overtime he has been dropped to the VFL this year he has gone back and done his job, playing really good solid games. He is in his third year of AFL and has shown in the past couple of weeks that he can make it.

Your comments on Murphy border on ridiculous

Keep calm and make sense. On Murphy, second at our club this year for contested possessions. Um, who is he competing with? What are you saying? Does he come second to Gibbs? Cause everyone else this year has not played enough or been injured for a fair comparison (Cripps/Curnow). Murphy's tackles are down against his competition peers; and clearances. As you say, he is better than some of our junior/VFL midfielders who don't even get the same midfield time...and wouldnt get a game at most other AFL clubs. So really, taking out our VFL rated players and the junior first year players, Murphy is last at our club for midfield contested possessions.

Boek was a mature age recruit. He is a vanilla footballer at VFL and weak at AFL level.

Yes, this year is his best year, I admit that. I am of the opinion it is his best year because it is his delisting year year and that he will revert to a softer type player on renewal. I'm ok with you feeling he has turned the corner and is now a bonafide AFL class player in the making. I'm just hoping SoS is of my persuasion. We will see.

You want evidence of contract years coinciding with form. Look at the year preceding Gibbs 5 year deal. That was his previous best year and surrounded by indifferent years. There are many examples of this. Even the logic makes sense.

On Murphy, I have a feeling 2018 will see him replaced as captain. That will say heaps. We have much better options now.

I'm not sure if you do what I do. I put Murphy/Boekhurst up against their peers from 'other teams' and try to analyse if they are better than half of them in more than half the games. If they are, i'm happy. If they arent, I hope Carlton can find better or change. The comparison is based on role, age, position, game time minutes, tackles, kicking, contested anything, hitting targets and decision making to mention a few.

I ignore AFL form spikes of said player was great for 2 games. Armfield is one of those type. Kills it 3 games a year. Is average 10 games a year and is poor the rest. A net loss vs his peers. Don't want him in the team or on our list.

 

[Arr0w]

He needs to build a tank.

That comes down to attitude. I think it comes down to whether he's convinced our guys that he's grown up and is going to put in a massive pre-season (not the last 3 games).

I had Sumner - like many others - waaaay in front of Boek at the start of the year. Really wonder if something else is going on with him as he's had such a disappointing year.

Reckon there's space on the list for either Boek or Sumner (fast creative outside unpredictable)- and at this stage it looks like Boek might be the one to pick.

Think people just have concerns with change.

I would rather take a kid, than persevere, with a guy that is only going to be a depth player at best

 

[gandaal]

You and I both know that if Cripps, Ed, Cuningham were all fully fit, Boekhorst would struggle to get a game

It just surprises me, that people are happy to give a 24 year old that has shown very little over the last 3 years, a one year contract to be a depth player

Anyway, let's move on

Have you seen our list? We've still got the worst list in the competition. He'll get a contract because he's not completely useless. If you are "not completely useless" you earn a contract at Carlton these days.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Boek must be retained for what he could become.

 

[BluesRule]

I have never disputed that he is talented, unfortunately his body of work should not be viewed as just 3 games, he is been on the list for 3 years. We didn't draft him as an 18 year old, he is 24.

Luke Ryan was a 4th rounder and there are others just like him in the lower leagues

Williamson is a 4th rounder, who would you rather have?

We only have one first, one third and one 4th. That is three draft picks before we are into round 5 in what is described as a shallow draft. How do we find 10+ players this year?

 

[Arr0w]

Have you seen our list? We've still got the worst list in the competition. He'll get a contract because he's not completely useless. If you are "not completely useless" you earn a contract at Carlton these days.

SO now we retain players because they are slightly better than the other bad bunch? How about we just add another to the delisted list, makes no difference if we cut 9 rather than 8.

Let's set our sites a little higher

 

[katmanblue]

Round 4-5? I have 8 below Boek so if he's gone then it's round 7-8 which is garbage

That was my point.

 

[Arr0w]

We only have one first, one third and one 4th. That is three draft picks before we are into round 5 in what is described as a shallow draft. How do we find 10+ players this year?

Firstly, I am confident that SOS will trade aggressively, as he has done in previous years. Secondly, let me put your mind at ease, this is not a thin draft, nor is it that shallow.

 

[gandaal]

SO now we retain players because they are slightly better than the other bad bunch? How about we just add another to the delisted list, makes no difference if we cut 9 rather than 8.

Let's set our sites a little higher

So how do we replace these 9 players?

 

[My name geoff]

That last pass he did to Gibbs was an absolute bullet.....sublime
However, pressure was off, game was over.
He absolutely shit himself earlier on in the game when he had a chance to get the ball fwd to someone in space (can't remember who it was) and completely shanked the kick.
That sums him up to me....no good in the heat of the battle.
Move him on.

Spot on. Just too skinny for AFL.

Comparing him to Isaac Smith is pretty far from the mark unfortunately. Although Smith is also a skinny outside player, he has a strong wiry body and has power in his running.

Boekhorst is unable to break tackles. Every time someone gets a hand on him the tackle sticks. He relies 100% on his speed and evasiveness, but in today's game that's not enough.

 

[Arr0w]

So how do we replace these 9 players?

Who are the other 8 players on the senior list that you believe will retire/delisted?

 

[OldCarltonKnows]

Hasn't peaked? How much more improvement do you think he has?

Thought you said you were moving on from this debate? Comments since haven't advocated your argument...

 

[Benaly28]

Have you seen our list? We've still got the worst list in the competition. He'll get a contract because he's not completely useless. If you are "not completely useless" you earn a contract at Carlton these days.

We don't have the 'worst' list in the afl,we have a developing list I'd like to call it.Id also add that both north and suns have an inferior list.