Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Soapy V]

We only have one first, one third and one 4th. That is three draft picks before we are into round 5 in what is described as a shallow draft. How do we find 10+ players this year?

Haven't we been through this?

Trading Future picks
Trading One pick for multiple picks
FA
DFA
Trading a pick for multiple players
Rookie Upgrades
Rookie Picks
SOS hiding players for later picks
Having to bring in a Palmer type (pick 135) to secure a deal for a good player

It can be done and importantly has been done

 

[HARKER]

and that's the issue. Lets get past this attitude of he is okay or has slightly improved or he is better than this player. Gets us nowhere. How about we try and build a list that will win flags? A player is either good enough or not based on their ability and performance. Fortunately I believe SOS knows this and will have no issue cutting players that are just "okay"

Don't you think that's what SOS is trying to do?
Was he then negligent in not moving Graham, Boekhorst & Buckley off last year?

Like it or not, every club will always have players that are relatively 'just ok' compared to the better end players.
Do you think Bolton is in the mood to have 8 or so 18 year olds to bring-up from scratch again?

Players will be moved on but maybe just not as quick as some may want them to be.

 

[Soapy V]

Don't you think that's what SOS is trying to do?
Was he then negligent in not moving Graham, Boekhorst & Buckley off last year?

NO, because as I said he can only move on so many at a time. That's why it's a 66 game rebuild and names like those you mentioned got offered one year deals.

 

[katmanblue]

Has improved but 2 major issues for me. Poise under real pressure and can he develop a tank? Still having less game time than others. If he was a kid then maybe but at 24 I would expect better. Prefer to play the kids who in most cases are a lot better

He's not going to develop a tank overnight. Needs a full uninterrupted preseason.

 

[HARKER]

Just to finish off on Boekhorst;

I seem to recall having similar debates about Liam Jones only 3 months ago and then even last year when some were calling for him to be cut, even though he had a year of his contract left. Can you believe that?

Not for one minute am I going to suggest that Boekhorst will net a similar result and the one thing I don't is what I care about most; What is Blaine about?
His last 8 weeks have been very good and that started off with 2 * 30+ possession games at VFL level. They were games where he suddenly found voice, where he seemed fully invested in the game and when his skills come out to play.

If there has been some sort of dramatic change in attitude from Blaine, he should stay.
If he's just pulling out a bluff, only to go back to his old ways?............we'll know soon enough.

 

[Soapy V]

He's not going to develop a tank overnight. Needs a full uninterrupted preseason.

? He's 24 and had a couple of injury free pre seasons

 

[Soapy V]

Just to finish off on Boekhorst;

I seem to recall having similar debates about Liam Jones only 3 months ago and then even last year when some were calling for him to be cut, even though he had a year of his contract left. Can you believe that?

Not for one minute am I going to suggest that Boekhorst will net a similar result and the one thing I don't is what I care about most; What is Blaine about?
His last 8 weeks have been very good and that started off with 2 * 30+ possession games at VFL level. They were games where he suddenly found voice, where he seemed fully invested in the game and when his skills come out to play.

If there has been some sort of dramatic change in attitude from Blaine, he should stay.
If he's just pulling out a bluff, only to go back to his old ways?............we'll know soon enough.

The Jones example is an extreme rarity. For every Jones we could name 100 that didn't make it. As for his last 8 weeks being "very good" lets just say we disagree entirely. The fact that he still hasn't been offered a deal says it all for me as it's not our opinion that matters but the clubs

 

[katmanblue]

? He's 24 and had a couple of injury free pre seasons

I dont think his head was in the game.

I have a feeling that one of the coaches really got to him and the penny dropped as to how hard he needs to work. Even something like getting a haircut shows a more no nonsense attitudes.

But then again this might be wishful thinking on my part. We'll see what Sos thinks soon enough.

 

[slashin_velvet]

I think given his age and that his good games recently havent been elite, but just competent, suggest he's not a lock for next year. I think he'll be floated as bait in the balic trade (which will in part depend on his personal issues and the severity of these) - problem is that Freo dont really need a skinny outside type like him.

If not traded I think he'll get an offer for a average wage 1 year deal.

 

[LanceRomance]

I think Boekhorst would be worth more to us than balic.

 

[DangerousD]

Hasn't peaked? How much more improvement do you think he has?

This season in the VFL he has taken his game to a new level where he is continually getting over 25 touches, this wasn't the case in his last 2 and wasn't the case in the WAFL. In his past few games in the seniors he has shown a lot of improvement and makes stuff happen (IMO).

TBH im not sure how much he has left but as long as he is still improving then i have him ahead of a lot of others.We have seen with Jones this year that as long as you have a few weapons you can make it work. Blaine has the weapons to become a good player, 1 more year isn't going to hurt. If he doesn't keep improving he gets cut in a season with a supposed strong draft.

 

[HARKER]

The Jones example is an extreme rarity. For every Jones we could name 100 that didn't make it. As for his last 8 weeks being "very good" lets just say we disagree entirely. The fact that he still hasn't been offered a deal says it all for me as it's not our opinion that matters but the clubs

You see, I'm not talking about Gorringe, Buckley, Palmer, Korchek, Armfield, White, Graham, Smedts, Gallucci etc here.
The fact is also that Jones didn't have a contract either, until 6 or so weeks ago.
His last few weeks have been more than serviceable, starting off with 2 * 30+ possession games in the VFL. Not fair to say otherwise.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; Boekhorst may not remain on the list but I'm just not as enthusiastic to move him on as some here seem to be.
As if he's the problem. At least he's playing at the premium level, unlike several that simple aren't........and for good reason.

 

[HARKER]

I think Boekhorst would be worth more to us than balic.

Grass..........greener.

 

[zeeCFC]

Some have invested too much mentally in Boek failing to see him retained

 

[Soapy V]

Grass..........greener.

Nope. I think Balic will be a very good player regardless of what I think of Boekhurst

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Free Agency:
Casboult

Retired:
Armfield

Delisted:
Buckley
Gorringe
Jaksch
Sumner
White
Graham

Delisted Rookies:
Sheehan
Korcheck
Lebois
Gallucci

Promoted Rookie:
Alex Silvagni

Pretty much what I would do but I'd keep Lebois and wouldn't bother promoting Silvagni

 

[Soapy V]

Some have invested too much mentally in Boek failing to see him retained

Nope. I am open to anything happen. JMO of where I see him plus reading between the lines of what the club thinks. If he steps up then the better off we are. The difference the improvement in Jones, Kerridge, Lamb etc has made to the list will help with depth and competition for spots

 

[HARKER]

Nope. I am open to anything happen. JMO of where I see him plus reading between the lines of what the club thinks. If he steps up then the better off we are. The difference the improvement in Jones, Kerridge, Lamb etc has made to the list will help with depth and competition for spots

If Kerridge had Boekhorsts ability, we'd be onto a winner.
Boekhorst may well be his own worst enemy and if that's ultimately his downfall, then he'll have something to think about, later in life.
I feel Boekhorst has never quite 'synced-up' with others at the club, namely SOS, so for him to have even received the extra year last year, is a win of sorts.

Now, have we anyone else to talk about?

 

[DangerousD]

On Murphy, second at our club this year for contested possessions. Um, who is he competing with? What are you saying? Does he come second to Gibbs? Cause everyone else this year has not played enough or been injured for a fair comparison (Cripps/Curnow). Murphy's tackles are down against his competition peers; and clearances. As you say, he is better than some of our junior/VFL midfielders who don't even get the same midfield time...and wouldnt get a game at most other AFL clubs. So really, taking out our VFL rated players and the junior first year players, Murphy is last at our club for midfield contested possessions.

Surely you are joking? Murphy is Five contested possessions behind Gibbs, how do you know how he would fare if both Cripps and Curnow were playing, we don't. The fact is, he is out there, competing against who's there.

Some stats for Marc this season. Avg kicks: 16.3, avg handball: 13.4, Clearances: 4.5, Contested possessions: 10.
Murphy if he was at the Pies would be 3rd for contested possessions, 2nd at the Bombers, 3rd at the Cats, 3rd at the Dockers, 2nd at the Suns, 2nd at the Hawks. I could go through all of them to show you he isn't purely outside but you have clearly made up your mind that he will always be outside no matter what his numbers are.

You want evidence of contract years coinciding with form. Look at the year preceding Gibbs 5 year deal. That was his previous best year and surrounded by indifferent years. There are many examples of this. Even the logic makes sense.

Look at what mate? Your opinion is not evidence. Gibbs has played great footy since that year, his increase in output was not confined to 1 season.

 

[Blue Flame]

I'll be the judge of what the commentators say, when they say it and what they mean.

And will I like it?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Wasn't it you that linked the two?
All the same, no not necessarily, there'd be players at the Pies who are more courageous than Pendles but nobody really knocks him because his overall output outweighs any negative impact this could cause.
As for choice in leaders, it's a different topic but it largely came down to an ageing Carrots or Marc, it's not as though we had great options at the time - thankfully Doc seems to tick all of the boxes going forward.



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Doc is 100% my choice for for next captain and is a tough footballer but he doesn't actually win much football either and he gets more cheap kicks then probably anyone in our side.
I can already see him being named captain then teams putting a defensive forward onto him and his numbers dropping right off and we see him bomb away as he does under pressure. People really don't appreciate what Murphy does enough.

 

[Azul]

Some have invested too much mentally in Boek failing to see him retained

Blaine is in the round 23 team. That alone supports the argument that he's ahead of a number of colleagues facing the ax.

 

[Soapy V]

Blaine is in the round 23 team. That alone supports the argument that he's ahead of a number of colleagues facing the ax.

Not sure that's logical. Armfield is getting a game, we have a few injuries and some players are trying to help reserves qualify for finals. Maybe we are also trying to up value for trade period? Bottom line is we really don't know

 

[DangerousD]

AFL Player rankings on SEN say Murphy is still going OK....

MITCHELL, Tom Haw 164
2. CROUCH, Matt Adel 158
3. KELLY, Joshua GWS 156
4. MURPHY, Marc Carl 153
5. OLIVER, Clayton Melb 153
6. MARTIN, Dustin Rich 152
7. WINES, Ollie Port 150
8. DOCHERTY, Sam Carl 149
9. DANGERFIELD, Patrick Geel 148
10. GIBBS, Bryce Carl 147
11. SHIEL, Dylan GWS 146
12. FYFE, Nathan Frem 145
13. EBERT, Brad Port 145
14. LAIRD, Rory Adel 144
15. MACRAE, Jack WB 144
16. HEPPELL, Dyson Ess 143
17. HURLEY, Michael Ess 143
18. MERRETT, Zach Ess 143
19. DUNCAN, Mitch Geel 143
20. WARD, Callan GWS 143
21. BONTEMPELLI, Marcus WB 143
22. ROSS, Sebastian StK 142
23. PARKER, Luke Syd 141
24. ADAMS, Taylor Coll 140
25. GAFF, Andrew WCE 140

Not bad for just an outside player who can fulfil norther role

 

[Azul]

we have a few injuries and some players are trying to help reserves qualify for finals. Maybe we are also trying to up value for trade period?

Blaine is good cover for injuries and has potential trade value.

So in all likelihood he'll be on an AFL list next year.