Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[HARKER]

How us this list management?

Us is list management, say Bonk.

 

[HARKER]

So, do we still de-list Boekhorst?

We'd be silly to de-list him, wouldn't we?

 

[katmanblue]

So, do we still de-list Boekhorst?

We'd be silly to de-list him, wouldn't we?

Yes

 

[HARKER]

 

[blue healer]

Murph needs to step down as captain. We need someone who isn't an introvert, someone who actually models what we want our players to do and be - confidence, assertiveness, competitive both ways... There's just something about Murphy that doesn't do it for me as captain. I'm fed up with the shyness and awkwardness in the media, the fact he doesn't compete in the air, the quiet nature on field.

We can do better.

Murph has had 5 years as captain and the only captain to have more at our club in the last 60 years (at least) is Kernahan with only Judd equalling Murphs tenure.

The fact that many believe he should be replaced is testimony that he has failed to grow into the job.

I think it's time he stood down and I also believe his footy is very likely to be improved by that decision. There have been numerous instances, in all sports, of performance improvement by those who've relinquished the job, indeed many on our list of former skippers have gone on to play in premierships.

Out of left field and because many still think it's too early for Cripps I would suggest that we could do a lot worse than make Gibbs captain if he stays. Just strikes me as the kind who would thrive on the extra official responsibility and would give Cripps, who I agree is a definite captain in waiting, to grow into the job.

Don't expect many to agree with this but that's how I roll.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

So, do we still de-list Boekhorst?

We'd be silly to de-list him, wouldn't we?

Want to keep him

 

[Soapy V]

So, do we still de-list Boekhorst?

We'd be silly to de-list him, wouldn't we?

If what I was told last week is true he has been told no decision will be made until during or after draft week. There is also a rumour he wants to go back to WA so SOS may try and facilitate a trade. If not traded I think he is in a group that may be offered one year deals dependent upon what SOS can pull off during trade period heading into draft.

He has improved but there are still some things in his game that would worry me if I was a List Manager. Poise and decision making under pressure being the key ones. Also, in a rebuild having a 25 year old that still isn't establsihed makes the decision harder.

 

[Mr_Plow]

I feel like Hopper is being poorly utilised at GWS.

You've got Ward who is terrific at hunting the football in contested situations dominating that facet of the game. Shiel is also tremendous at playing the inside midfield role.

Mr. Hopper is sitting on the outside of packs waiting for the handpass. Whether this is a coaching directive or not, this isn't his natural game. He also hasn't been helped by consistent injury.

Bring Jacob across, start him in the middle and whisper in his ear, "Hunt."

Good things will happen.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Hopper and Cripps would make a tough midfield. Add Kelly or no. 3 plus SPS and it starts to look dangerous.

Running through our squad we really are short on midfielders, especially goal kicking midfielders under 25.

Boek simply must stay.

 

[HARKER]

If what I was told last week is true he has been told no decision will be made until during or after draft week. There is also a rumour he wants to go back to WA so SOS may try and facilitate a trade. If not traded I think he is in a group that may be offered one year deals dependent upon what SOS can pull off during trade period heading into draft.

He has improved but there are still some things in his game that would worry me if I was a List Manager. Poise and decision making under pressure being the key ones. Also, in a rebuild having a 25 year old that still isn't establsihed makes the decision harder.

Yes, there are several things about his game that would worry Bolton also and if he is to be moved on, at least we'll likely get something for him.
That's a good thing, but to have him in the first round of de-listeds would be.........Odd?

Just surprises me that when some dig their heels in about a player, they just can't let go.

 

[KnobHead]

So, do we still de-list Boekhorst?

We'd be silly to de-list him, wouldn't we?

Deserves another year.

In murphy's Age article, he mentioned that the clubs had figured out the defensive structure we used early in the year, so we've tried to add a bit more speed / faster ball movement over the last month.

think BB has his deficiencies (most players do), but his game style suits quick ball movement and that's what he brings to the team. will help as we move to a quicker ball moving team

as to the move to a less defensive structure, worth watching the second tigers' game - they really pushed deep into their forward line which stifled our ball movement from defense. seemed to form a blueprint for teams we played the following weeks.


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[Jimmae]

If they are being delisted straight up not being considered as trade bait, rip the band aid off and do it immediately.

It is not the time to stuff around with it. If one or two are being held onto dependant on trades okay but if the papers are stamped out they go Monday.

That's exactly what we do: Wood, Foster and Dick were the names on an official statement on August 30th last year.

Wait until Mad Monday is over and you'll get exactly the answer you're looking for.

Kind of goes against conventional wisdom and the accompanying thoughts of all hobby phantom drafters so far this year

All well and good to have an opinion, but if you can't back it up it's mostly left to optimism.

Looks like a good year to find value in the open market and through trading. Miles/Hopper/Wigg/Balic's value is perfect for what we're looking for rather than chase speculative picks later in the draft.

Sounds like a bit of wishful thinking/contrarianism

Basically:
1. The Top 20 are OK, but almost all have obvious weaknesses
2. Overall quality is poor
3. Stark drop-off after 30-40
4. Lots of overragers being considered as comfortable draft choices; in previous years they'd be more than likely to be rookied

Anyway, bit of semantics, but overall it's not a draft to get excited about after the first 15-20 selections

I think you need to sit down and figure out the age bracket of the vast majority of these hobbyists. I still scoff a bit at some of Knightmare's analysis as he wouldn't be much older than 20, but he has put in the hard yards with attendance, networking and video tape.

It's hard to find a balance between the FIFA fans and the rusted-on network-savvy types who perhaps haven't quite modernised their templates for footballers.

We'll start to really see where this draft pool is at over the next 7 weeks, with the combine and information starting to seep out about where the quality is in the junior comps across the country. Happens every year, bar a couple, like clockwork.

RE: state level, Tim Kelly and Dom Barry have really stepped up, which is why they are so heavily in the conversation. I'm sure there'll be a close eye on the Geelong area as well because the Cats seemed to have developed a talent farm out that way on the down low.

No phantom extended beyond the 2nd round is worth paying attention to right now, and you can expect 10+ names to jump into that as their contacts reveal a wider pool of info than they have access to earlier in the year.

Have you thought about how some people actually enjoy getting punched in the face?

That's why so many people do combat sports. To hit and get hit.

That's why we've always had warrior classes in society over thousands of years.

No one enjoys getting properly punched in the face (hello fetishists). The only thing they enjoy is what they believe to be social permission to start hitting someone until they can't move, and we're not talking about particularly rational people at this point.

I cannot believe this even came up.

 

[Soapy V]

Yes, there are several things about his game that would worry Bolton also and if he is to be moved on, at least we'll likely get something for him.
That's a good thing, but to have him in the first round of de-listeds would be.........Odd?

Just surprises me that when some dig their heels in about a player, they just can't let go.

Maybe but also people get tied to a player in hope. The worst thing we can do is hang on to player we "hope" may make it. The game is to tough and with small lists you need to make the most of each spot. SOS will cut players if he doubts them. The fact that Boekhurst hasn't been offered a deal says a lot to me plus he still can't establish himself in our best 22 even with a poor list and injuries. Next year our list will be even better.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Murph has had 5 years as captain and the only captain to have more at our club in the last 60 years (at least) is Kernahan with only Judd equalling Murphs tenure.

The fact that many believe he should be replaced is testimony that he has failed to grow into the job.

I think it's time he stood down and I also believe his footy is very likely to be improved by that decision. There have been numerous instances, in all sports, of performance improvement by those who've relinquished the job, indeed many on our list of former skippers have gone on to play in premierships.

Out of left field and because many still think it's too early for Cripps I would suggest that we could do a lot worse than make Gibbs captain if he stays. Just strikes me as the kind who would thrive on the extra official responsibility and would give Cripps, who I agree is a definite captain in waiting, to grow into the job.

Don't expect many to agree with this but that's how I roll.

Very fair suggestion on Gibbs however i think that Docherty is a natural leader so courageous in the way he goes about his play . Just feels right to be the next capt just ahead of Cripps for mine . I like Murph but have just seen too many instances of soft physical efforts this year . Clearly he has been playing with some injuries that is taking away his ability to be more physical and thats fine but not as captain . Murphy is a perfect example of why we need more bigger bodies through the middle so he can transition to a predominently outside role with stints in a FP as you have suggested where i feel he will be better utilised . For me i will be disappointed if Murphy continues as capt next year .

 

[Jimmae]

Murph needs to step down as captain. We need someone who isn't an introvert, someone who actually models what we want our players to do and be - confidence, assertiveness, competitive both ways... There's just something about Murphy that doesn't do it for me as captain. I'm fed up with the shyness and awkwardness in the media, the fact he doesn't compete in the air, the quiet nature on field.

We can do better.

Agreed: Duffman for captain

 

[HARKER]

Surely someone will pick-up Liam Ryan this year.

Another 6 goal effort yesterday.

 

[Robertio]

How do you figure?

The Top 20 looks very patchy and low-quality and there looks to be a drastic drop-off after Pick 30.

Every year there are gems if you're good enough to scout them (like Williamson), but at this stage it looks to be a very middling draft crop.

This is where Paul Brodie will or should earn his pay packet.

 

[HARKER]

Maybe but also people get tied to a player in hope. The worst thing we can do is hang on to player we "hope" may make it. The game is to tough and with small lists you need to make the most of each spot. SOS will cut players if he doubts them. The fact that Boekhurst hasn't been offered a deal says a lot to me plus he still can't establish himself in our best 22 even with a poor list and injuries. Next year our list will be even better.

You don't hang onto a player and 'hope'
You hang onto a player with AFL qualities and back yourself to make him better. That's the coaches' jobs.

If though, someone is ill-disciplined and beyond 'repair', then you have to let them go.

 

[La Dispute]

I think you need to sit down and figure out the age bracket of the vast majority of these hobbyists. I still scoff a bit at some of Knightmare's analysis as he wouldn't be much older than 20, but he has put in the hard yards with attendance, networking and video tape.

It's hard to find a balance between the FIFA fans and the rusted-on network-savvy types who perhaps haven't quite modernised their templates for footballers.

Knightmare's 27/28 IIRC.

No doubt there is a disparity between what recruiters are looking for and what amateur junior football watchers idealise in young footballers.

 

[Soapy V]

If what has been reported is right the following players don't currently have contracts for next year.

Buckley
Simpson
Boekhurst
Jaksch
Sumner
Armfield (ret)
Graham
Gorringe
Thomas

Sheehan
Glass-McCasker
Korcheck
Gallucci

They will have their end of season interviews this week. I assume they will be told if they want to continue they will have to wait until after trade period to see if they are offered a new one year deal on basic money. It will depend upon how many players SOS can bring in.

Smedts & Palmer are lucky they have deals for 2018. If the club aren't prepared to pay them out then I reckon the top 9 are in trouble.

 

[ferrisb]

In terms of most forms of conditioning, you start to lose levels after 3 days of relative inactivity, and you're pretty much back to square one (natural fitness) after 3 weeks off your feet.

What happens after 10 years?

Um.... Asking for a friend....

 

[Jimmae]

Knightmare's 27/28 IIRC.

No doubt there is a disparity between what recruiters are looking for and what amateur junior football watchers idealise in young footballers.

Someone tell him to eat inbetween player reports

What happens after 10 years?

Um.... Asking for a friend....

Good news, you're not much worse than the 3 week types, plus all the body fat.

 

[Soapy V]

You don't hang onto a player and 'hope'
You hang onto a player with AFL qualities and back yourself to make him better. That's the coaches' jobs.

I'm sure some coaches hope they can improve a player. Doesn't work with everyone. I'm sure Bolton thought he could make Sumner a good player. Certainly gave him the opportunity. If you believe you can make him better and that the player has a better chance than others to be better then yes but it's not black & white.

 

[ferrisb]

Good news, you're not much worse than the 3 week types, plus all the body fat.

So.... Nothing like the 3 week types, then.....

 

[Jimmae]

So.... Nothing like the 3 week types, then.....

You'd be surprised