Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[Cutz]

I'd prefer a mid and a forward taken in the draft, and keep Jones or Jaksch on for an extra season on $250k tops. Is that an option?

Jones or Jaksch for $250K

More like Jones AND Jaksch for $250K total.

Carlton Football Club Centrelink days are over

 

[Iamcarlton]

Where do we get the required players from, then? We can't give up too many high draft picks because that leaves too many holes in the side and leaves the side too weighted towards players playing for themselves and the money. We can't give up players that other teams might rate because that leaves us susceptible in the short term. We can't simply rely on our own own draft picks because not all drafts are deep and we are slowly rising up the ladder (and are already missing a second round selection) which means the selections aren't going to be that high.

I give up!

I see gibbs as our best opportunity to gain some extra picks .The go home factor is always a risk when recruiting interstate players . He flagged his intentions last year but for us at the time it wasnt the right time to let him go . If he has the same intentions thats our opportunity . Now with Fisher SPS with a year under their belts at seasons end .C Curnow looking like hes capable of spending time in the middle i think we are better placed to use that to our advantage in landing a readymade younger replacement for Gibbs and maybe another 2nd or 3rd rounder as well . Definately dont think its a great idea to let Casboult or Kruezer go . Just my thoughts

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Did someone actually suggest that we keep Jaksch and/or Jones? We need top 20 picks, as many as we can get. We have an aging midfield that needs to be overhauled in the next few years, and Cripps needs some help. It is pointless having a Rolls Royce forward line if you cannot get the ball into them.

It has taken Casboult 7 years to learn how to kick a football and everyone is euphoric. He is trade bait and should be considered as such. He won't be part of the next successful team.

You say we need top 20 picks, but Jones and Jaksch will not get us a pick anywhere near that.

There's a simple strategy we should undertake imo.

Trade Gibbs to Crows for #11-16 + #35ish
Trade 2018 1st pick for a 2017 top 10 pick
Keep our top 10 pick from where we finish

That's 3 top 15 picks, 2 of them top 10 and a pick in the mid 30's. Would be perfect for this year's draft.

I'm pretty confident in the kids we've picked up in the last 2 drafts. 1 more draft where we nail our picks and we'll be set. That's why this year it is absolutely critical we hit the draft hard.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

I see gibbs as our best opportunity to gain some extra picks .The go home factor is always a risk when recruiting interstate players . He flagged his intentions last year but for us at the time it wasnt the right time to let him go . If he has the same intentions thats our opportunity . Now with Fisher SPS with a year under their belts at seasons end .C Curnow looking like hes capable of spending time in the middle i think we are better placed to use that to our advantage in landing a readymade younger replacement for Gibbs and maybe another 2nd or 3rd rounder as well . Definately dont think its a great idea to let Casboult or Kruezer go . Just my thoughts

the problem with gibbs is that it's only adelaide who are a realistic destination and their first round pick is 17 (or thereabouts). to be honest i'd rather keep gibbs than have pick 17 (probably 20 by the time you factor in academy picks etc). gibbs could realistically feature in our next contending team, even if he plays behind the ball which he's certainly more naturally capable of doing well than a kelly, montagna or boyd.

Levi is untouchable given our structure and how our young forwards are developing and what we'd get in return for him.

But if kreuzer leaves via free agency to trigger 1st round compensation, then the pick we'd get for him would be something like pick 6. if that's the case then i think that's a worthy deal to make.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I see gibbs as our best opportunity to gain some extra picks .The go home factor is always a risk when recruiting interstate players . He flagged his intentions last year but for us at the time it wasnt the right time to let him go . If he has the same intentions thats our opportunity . Now with Fisher SPS with a year under their belts at seasons end .C Curnow looking like hes capable of spending time in the middle i think we are better placed to use that to our advantage in landing a readymade younger replacement for Gibbs and maybe another 2nd or 3rd rounder as well . Definately dont think its a great idea to let Casboult or Kruezer go . Just my thoughts

I would have been in favour of getting rid of Levi during last year's trade period but he has worked hard to improve his kicking and has gradually worked his way into form this season after a less than exciting start.

We'll see if he can keep consistent as the season wears on. If he can, we keep him. He'll be more value to us than what we'll get for him.

Kreuzer needs to stay. Miles ahead of any other ruckman we have. Philips and Gorringe are not up to it at AFL level.

 

[Iamcarlton]

the problem with gibbs is that it's only adelaide who are a realistic destination and their first round pick is 17 (or thereabouts). to be honest i'd rather keep gibbs than have pick 17 (probably 20 by the time you factor in academy picks etc). gibbs could realistically feature in our next contending team, even if he plays behind the ball which he's certainly more naturally capable of doing well than a kelly, montagna or boyd.

Levi is untouchable given our structure and how our young forwards are developing and what we'd get in return for him.

But if kreuzer leaves via free agency to trigger 1st round compensation, then the pick we'd get for him would be something like pick 6. if that's the case then i think that's a worthy deal to make.

Yes Gibbs could still be around but if he wants to go he wants to go and thats our opportunity . Yes pick isnt that high but remember where Williamson went in the draft ? And we would most likely get another later pick as well . Again trusting in sos to do something there . Isnt a 2 for 1 better ?
I have confidence that sos would land us a decent mid with the early pick or use it to land a readymade younger mid such as Hopper . Highly doubt Kruezer will land a pick that high but thats jmo . With the salary cap going up considerably the AFL will most likely move the goalposts once again re the compensation for FA and it would take a massive offer to Kruezer to get us into that category imo .

 

[Iamcarlton]

I would have been in favour of getting rid of Levi during last year's trade period but he has worked hard to improve his kicking and has gradually worked his way into form this season after a less than exciting start.

We'll see if he can keep consistent as the season wears on. If he can, we keep him. He'll be more value to us than what we'll get for him.

Kreuzer needs to stay. Miles ahead of any other ruckman we have. Philips and Gorringe are not up to it at AFL level.

Agree on all of that Phillips however did show some good promise last year but he's a long way back fitness wise this year . I think Kruez has reminded us all how important he is when up and firing .

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Sam Reid would be the wrong move IMO. Too old. Too expensive, and not good enough. We need elite talent, not top-ups just because they're "free".

Disagree on all counts. He is at the top end of the age bracket we are focusing on, his cost isn't that much of a problem considering the amount of money we have available as stated previously on this page. I do think he is good enough, especially for where we are at right at the moment. He isn't elite sure, but there really aren't many elite KPF's running around to be fair. I certainly think he'd be in that 40 - 50 goals a season bracket if Longmire would stop sending him backwards to defence all the time. Id actually be quite pleased to see him arrive as a FA.

 

[Soapy V]

I am with you on this. Imagine our team without Kreuzer and Casboult.
We would be non competitive and another bottom 4 finish is almost a certainty. Why would players want to stay and why would players want to come to our club if we continue to stay near the bottom of the ladder?
Both of these players may or may not be part of our next premiership but we cannot simply bring in a bunch of kids and not surround them with good senior players.

Yeh because we are such a great side with them in it [emoji849] sometimes you need to make sacrifices to move forward. The senior argument is naive. We have heaps and if we need more SOS will bring in another Alex or Wright. Another bottom 4 year wouldn't be the worst thing if the young talent was developing. Players will want to come to us because they see the future and we offer the money. SOS and Bolton will have it sorted. Club is moving forward and tough decisions will be made again at the end of the year. Whatever happens it will be to the benefit of the club as a whole. People need to chill out

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

You say we need top 20 picks, but Jones and Jaksch will not get us a pick anywhere near that.

There's a simple strategy we should undertake imo.

Trade Gibbs to Crows for #11-16 + #35ish
Trade 2018 1st pick for a 2017 top 10 pick
Keep our top 10 pick from where we finish

That's 3 top 15 picks, 2 of them top 10 and a pick in the mid 30's. Would be perfect for this year's draft.

I'm pretty confident in the kids we've picked up in the last 2 drafts. 1 more draft where we nail our picks and we'll be set. That's why this year it is absolutely critical we hit the draft hard.

Two things, I still don't see Adelaide stumping up a first and second for Gibbs and secondly, which one's of these top 15 picks will SOS be using to get Hopper and Kennedy?

 

[Soapy V]

So with Jones apparently being groomed by Bolton to be a CHB

???

 

[Soapy V]

Sam Reid would be the wrong move IMO. Too old. Too expensive, and not good enough. We need elite talent, not top-ups just because they're "free".

 

[Shambolic]

Disagree on all counts. He is at the top end of the age bracket we are focusing on, his cost isn't that much of a problem considering the amount of money we have available as stated previously on this page. I do think he is good enough, especially for where we are at right at the moment. He isn't elite sure, but there really aren't many elite KPF's running around to be fair. I certainly think he'd be in that 40 - 50 goals a season bracket if Longmire would stop sending him backwards to defence all the time. Id actually be quite pleased to see him arrive as a FA.

Problem is he isn't that good

 

[Doro]

Found an interesting article. Fairly good summation of the past 7 years. Quite depressing really.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-02-25/top-blues-recruiter-quits




2009 National Draft

No. 12 Kane Lucas Delisted
No. 43 Marcus Davies Delisted
No. 59 Rohan Kerr Delisted
No. 72 RE Sam Jacobs Traded
No. 83 RE Aaron Joseph Delisted
Trade Lachie Henderson TICK
Trade Brock McLean Delisted TICK

TRADING Brendan Fevola for Lachie Henderson was the right move, but they paid a big price for taking Kane Lucas ahead of Daniel Talia.
Trading Jacobs the following year for No. 33 (Patrick McCarthy) and No. 67 (Andrew McInnes) was a mistake.

Nick Duigan is one of many Carlton recruits that have been moved on.
2010 National Draft

No. 18 Matthew Watson Delisted
No. 34 Patrick McCarthy Delisted
No. 42 Luke Mitchell Delisted
No. 67 Andrew McInnes Delisted
No. 70 Nick Duigan Delisted
No. 85 (RE) Jeff Garlett Traded for two picks not used
No. 99 (RE) David Ellard Delisted
No. 108 Simon White
Trade Andrew Collins Delisted
Trade Jeremy Laidler Delisted

A second-straight wipe-out at the draft. Watson may be lucky to stay beyond this season and Garlett was moved on after losing focus and confidence last season. Still hurts to see him kicking goals at Demonland.

2011 National Draft

No. 22 Josh Bootsma Delisted
No. 44 Sam Rowe
No. 62 (FS) Dylan Buckley

ANOTHER first-round pick went down the drain when the Blues punted Bootsma for sending inappropriate text messages, continuing a string of off-field issues. Shane Rogers found a gem in Rowe and Buckley is in the VFL. (He can never be forgiven for Bootsma)

2012 National Draft

No. 11 Troy Menzel Delisted
No. 35 Tom Temay Delisted
No. 54 Nick Graham
No. 89 (RE) Levi Casboult
No. 102 (RE) Zach Tuohy Traded

MENZEL was one of the best picks of the draft, but clubs who have successfully rebuilt have hit gold in the middle rounds and Temay was unsighted at AFL level. Graham has had knee trouble, holding him back.

Patrick Cripps is one player who might finally provide a win for Carlton’s recruiters.
2013 National Draft

No. 13 Patrick Cripps
No. 39 Cameron Giles Delisted
No. 51 Nick Holman?
No. 89 (RE) Ed Curnow
No. 94 (RE) Tom Bell Traded
RFA Dale Thomas
Trade Sam Docherty TICK

Trade Andrejs Everitt Delisted

CRIPPS will be a star and the Blues were clear winners from the Docherty and Everitt trades. Hard-nuts Bell and Curnow add midfield depth but Thomas didn’t meet his own expectations in first season in navy Blue.

2014 National Draft

No. 19 Blaine Boekhorst
No. 28 Dillon Vojo Rainbow Delisted
No. 60 Clem Smith Delisted
No. 63 Jayden Foster Delisted
DFA Matthew Dick Delisted
Trade Kristian Jaksch
Trade Liam Jones
Trade Mark Whiley Delisted

WAS a big call to take mature-age WAFL wingman Boekhorst at No. 19. Has started the season in VFL but can become next Isaac Smith, according to one talent expert. Sacrificed pick No. 7 to bring in Whiley and Jaksch from GWS and Boekhorst.
By the close of 2017 all of the 2014 draft would have been been delisted. Has to go down as one of the worst selections ever.

The thing that jumps out at me with that article is the one way daggers in the back for McKay. Certainly didn't throw Rogers under the bus after his "unlucky" drafting.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Yeh because we are such a great side with them in it [emoji849] sometimes you need to make sacrifices to move forward. The senior argument is naive. We have heaps and if we need more SOS will bring in another Alex or Wright. Another bottom 4 year wouldn't be the worst thing if the young talent was developing. Players will want to come to us because they see the future and we offer the money. SOS and Bolton will have it sorted. Club is moving forward and tough decisions will be made again at the end of the year. Whatever happens it will be to the benefit of the club as a whole. People need to chill out

Yet another bottom 4 finish soapy ? We made sacrifices with the Tuohy lowballing last year continue to do those kinds of things to your players is risky business imo . Guess youve blanked the port game from your memory ?

 

[Soapy V]

Yet another bottom 4 finish soapy ? We made sacrifices with the Tuohy lowballing last year continue to do those kinds of things to your players is risky business imo . Guess youve blanked the port game from your memory ?

It's a rebuild and it's nowhere near finished. For all the great efforts overs the past few weeks we are still a bottom 4-6 side. This year we will bring in another 8 or so kids and a couple of recruits. It was the plan from the start and nothing has changed. Port was a game that will happen every so often. The important thing was we bounced back. Impressive for such a young list.

What Bolton and SOS are doing is impressive but there is still a long way to go and I am sure they know it. The talk of Reid etc is silly. They will go after an elite talent like a Hopper and maybe one or two talented younger players and they will be good kicking mids. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nothing has changed and the direction hasn't changed. If an offer comes for a Casboult or Kruezer that betters the side we will take it. If it doesn't they will stay. I'm not fussed either way and will sit back and enjoy the ride. We will go back before going forward

What I am confident in is SOS will bring in more great talent. People are excited by our kids after 7 rounds and they haven't even shown anywhere near their potential yet. Wait until LeBois Kerr McKay Byrne Pickett Cuningham Macreadie etc step back in and improve. The best is yet to come

 

[Metalcrusher]

It's a rebuild and it's nowhere near finished. For all the great efforts overs the past few weeks we are still a bottom 4-6 side. This year we will bring in another 8 or so kids and a couple of recruits. It was the plan from the start and nothing has changed. Port was a game that will happen every so often. The important thing was we bounced back. Impressive for such a young list.

What Bolton and SOS are doing is impressive but there is still a long way to go and I am sure they know it. The talk of Reid etc is silly. They will go after an elite talent like a Hopper and maybe one or two talented younger players and they will be good kicking mids. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nothing has changed and the direction hasn't changed. If an offer comes for a Casboult or Kruezer that betters the side we will take it. If it doesn't they will stay. I'm not fussed either way and will sit back and enjoy the ride. We will go back before going forward

What I am confident in is SOS will bring in more great talent. People are excited by our kids after 7 rounds and they haven't even shown anywhere near their potential yet. Wait until LeBois Kerr McKay Byrne Pickett Cuningham Macreadie etc step back in and improve. The best is yet to come

Not Bolts or the club have ever stated anything other than that one critical point soap

 

[Iamcarlton]

It's a rebuild and it's nowhere near finished. For all the great efforts overs the past few weeks we are still a bottom 4-6 side. This year we will bring in another 8 or so kids and a couple of recruits. It was the plan from the start and nothing has changed. Port was a game that will happen every so often. The important thing was we bounced back. Impressive for such a young list.

What Bolton and SOS are doing is impressive but there is still a long way to go and I am sure they know it. The talk of Reid etc is silly. They will go after an elite talent like a Hopper and maybe one or two talented younger players and they will be good kicking mids. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nothing has changed and the direction hasn't changed. If an offer comes for a Casboult or Kruezer that betters the side we will take it. If it doesn't they will stay. I'm not fussed either way and will sit back and enjoy the ride. We will go back before going forward

What I am confident in is SOS will bring in more great talent. People are excited by our kids after 7 rounds and they haven't even shown anywhere near their potential yet. Wait until LeBois Kerr McKay Byrne Pickett Cuningham Macreadie etc step back in and improve. The best is yet to come

Great summary soapy yes exciting times only thing is we had a completely different side age profile wise from the port game to last week with a good balance of older with a few younger players . Letting go too many good older players will see more port games and will actually stall the rebuild not enhance it .And you risk becoming the next Melbourne who i see of recent years have gone out and got themselves the likes of Vince Lewis and Hibberd to rectify that imbalance jmo

 

[Cliffords Blues]

Preuss amassed 72 hit-outs while playing for Werribee in the VFL last weekend.

 

[Benaly28]

Thoughts on Patty MaCartin?
Not sure on his contract status
Cannot get a sniff at a recall at present, or just out of favor.
Surely if he doesn't crack a recall or a good run back in the 1's, he might be worth a look?
Doubt we woulds have to give up a 1st round pick for a guy not getting a regular run.

Not sure, health is an issue and doesn't seem to have the right body shape although that might come with a few preseasons but I think there are better options.

 

[Soapy V]

Great summary soapy yes exciting times only thing is we had a completely different side age profile wise from the port game to last week with a good balance of older with a few younger players.

We had a few injuries to senior players and Bolton threw the kids in. What was good is he balanced it up the next week and we bounced back. One thrashing can be handled and learned from. 2, 3 or 4 in a row becomes a problem. As the current kids (Weitering Marchbank SPS Fisher SOS Charlie etc) get more experienced then more kids will come in and names like Docherty Rowe Kruezer Curnow Murphy Gibbs Wright will be our leaders and examples. It's a fine line and a balance. Bolton has been great in this area. I expect a very very different side this time next year

IMO elite ball use and run our still our biggest weaknesses. Defence and Forward line are potentially elite. Polson LeBois Cunningham Pickett Sumner Byrne Sheehan will help in that area and step up next to SPS Fisher & Cripps. Hopper and maybe Balic would be great gets. Then add another 6-8 picks like the last few years and watch out. No need to chase "average" players and pay big money to do it. Surely we are past that now? I believe we are.

 

[Jeremias]

Preuss amassed 72 hit-outs while playing for Werribee in the VFL last weekend.

Will not be traded.

 

[Jimmae]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-03/us-prospect-drew-martin-shines-at-combine

I reckon SOS might go hard on the Cat B signings at the end of this year, whether they be International, Multicultural or F/S. JGM, Sheehan, Korcheck and Gallucci will all be on notice (invariably some might wind up on the Cat A list, assuming rookie lists aren't immediately phased out).

 

[Soapy V]

Best "Rebuild" 22 for 2018 BEFORE this year's trade & draft period

Docherty Macreadie Plowman
Byrne Marchbank Williamson

Kruezer Charlie Murphy
SPS Cripps Gibbs

Polson Weitering Pickett
LeBois McKay Silvagni

Int from: Fisher Cuningham Rowe Simpson Curnow Sumner Kerr Sheehan (that's 26)

Then add Hopper, Balic and another 6 draft picks. Amazing potential (that's 38 players)

Kerridge Casboult Phillips Wright Smedts White Graham A.Silvagni are then mature back ups. (that's 45 players ) Not bad if that happens

Possible Outs: Thomas Buckley Gorringe Jaksch Jones Boekhurst Palmer Armfield Lamb

 

[Metalcrusher]

Best "Rebuild" 22 for 2018 BEFORE this year's trade & draft period

Docherty Macreadie Plowman
Byrne Marchbank Williamson

Kruezer Charlie Murphy
SPS Cripps Gibbs

Polson Weitering Pickett
LeBois McKay Silvagni

Int from: Fisher Cuningham Rowe Simpson Curnow Sumner Kerr Sheehan (that's 26)

Then add Hopper, Balic and another 6 draft picks. Amazing potential (that's 38 players)

Kerridge Casboult Phillips Wright Smedts White Graham A.Silvagni are then mature back ups. (that's 45 players ) Not bad if that happens

Possible Outs: Thomas Buckley Gorringe Jaksch Jones Boekhurst Palmer Armfield Lamb

Bookmark that soap will be bloody interesting see the 22 mid next year ....

I am truly excited by CFC this year and what has been achieved in 2 off seasons so far. It is nothing short of monumental what the Club/Bolts/SOS has achieved in such a short time.