Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[thylacine60]

Stig O'Hara is a woman........

 

[zeeCFC]

Cheers, do you reckon he'll be delisted then? Or still a chance or forging a career?

Make or break year. Needs to get good midfield numbers in the seniors or he'll be very lucky to be on an AFL list in 2018.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Stig O'Hara is a woman........

Man, she punched me like a dude.

 

[Weiterbot23]

I'm more surprised to hear David King talking us up!

I reckon King is pretty fair on us

 

[Magruder]

But more 50ft mutant women .

Can she go through the midfield?

 

[Blue By Blood]

I reckon King is pretty fair on us

Really? Usually all the dribble that comes out of his mouth is anti-Carlton. I don't have much time for David King or his smug opinions.

 

[ShanDog]

Really? Usually all the dribble that comes out of his mouth is anti-Carlton. I don't have much time for David King or his smug opinions.

Rated us higher than just about anyone else before last season kicked off. Was laughed at a bit and turned out to be pretty much spot on. Can't say anything about before then though - haven't paid attention.

 

[Old navy]

I do not agree with your bashing of Rogers, nor conversely, the exclusivity of your praise for SOS.

Recruiting should NEVER be about picking the best player available.

It should be about picking the best player to complement the Coach's game plan given the players currently on the list and their expected future development and fitting the player(s) recruited into the salary cap.

Central to the recruiting task is therefore that there be a "game plan", A game plan is a blueprint for the way in which the coach expects the team to win the ball against opposition clubs when the opposition have the ball and when it is in contest, transition the ball into a scoring opportunity, and kick the goals. The coach needs to know what type of player is most critically missing (or likely to become a critical miss in the future because of age, go home, or injury) for his game plan to work most effectively.

But, as I have said repeatedly, a game plan is ONLY good if it maximises (uses) the skills and talents of each individual player in the team and minimises (hides) the absence of skills and talents of each individual player in the team. Go game plans MUST be 2-way creations. A coach needs to imagine what sort of player he wants for his game plan but, when he has them, he needs to adapt the game plan to the players selected.

The above approach is very clearly that of Clarkson from the get go. He cleared the list of players that he didn't want (like Graham) and was prepared to cop beltings whilst he worked out who on the list he had he could use going forward. Then he added players specific to the needs of his game plan (a heap of left footers). You can see the planned purpose for each player recruited by the Hawks. The decisions to rid themselves of Mitchell and Lewis for Mitchell and JOM shows exactly the sort of strategic planning Clarkson constantly engages in. But he leaves it to the recruiters to get the type of player he orders within the confines of the salary cap.

The problem for Rogers, particularly in 2014, was that there was one and only one purpose in the recruiting we engaged in that off-season - MM hoped for a quick injection of talent to make finals and keep his job. As is now generally recognised MM didn't have any real game plan (or at least not one that caused any difficulties for modern coaches). He kept hoping that with good enough players and his undoubted tactical nous we could win enough games to, whatever.
Now sure, DVR didn't work out and some blame for Rogers there, but after Clem Smith and Foster were picked, ignoring Acadaemy and Father/son picks. 11 players were recruited who have played a total of 17 games in 2 yrs (11 games to Logan Austin) with nothing to get excited about with any other pick. So it is not like there were a heap of obvious choices left. And of course our drafting before DVR was about getting a 3 yr tall to make an immediate impact plus a mature aged BB to also have immediate impact. Not sure these were Rogers call exclusively. I certainly see the hand of MM.

Rogers was woeful, I'd hate to think what our list would look like if he was still at the club.
2014 does have MM fingerprints all over it, but still one player of note from 3 or 4 drafts is a piss poor record.
To think, we were Essendon not using its players as pin cushions away from Cripps potentially not being at the club.
Think SOS has done a amazing job, at the end of 2014 our list was in a shocking state, just two years later and we seem to have so much more young talent and players with genuine potential at the club.
Another year or two of building through the draft and we could have one of the best young list in the league, that would have been unthinkable not long ago.

 

[DangerousD]

If Thomas plays 20 games this season at the standard he played in the first half of last year, how would people feel about signing him for 1-2 years for 350k?

If his output is ok then of course, maybe less money. By all reports he is great around the club, he is a premiership player with lots of experience, he ticks a lot of boxes. Hopefully he plays well.

 

[HARKER]

Thomas is capable if fitness allows.
Easy to forget but he'd still be one of the first 10 picked, should he have been in standard nick.

The only thing I worry about Thomas is whether he may be broken.
Given the expectations vs the output for a proud person........It could get to you.

 

[ferrisb]

Stig O'Hara is a woman........

Nope, that would be Stig's sister, Scarlett

 

[DangerousD]

Remember also that we haven't a second rounder next year, either.
That along with the possibility of a weak draft and some will simply hang on for another year.

Dependent on how we see Ben for '18, we may want to trade our 2018 first for a 2017 first....May make sense to do so.

I like the idea, Gibbs may be traded which would get another first and possibly a 2nd, 3 first rounders would be good.

 

[DangerousD]

Are the out of contract players at GWS more or less likely to leave if they win the flag?

Im in the more camp.

 

[passmark]

Are the out of contract players at GWS more or less likely to leave if they win the flag?

Im in the more camp.

Whatever happens they'll continue to leak quality.

 

[thylacine60]

they are their own draft

 

[Jeremias]

Have just looked at the free agents and players coming out of contract at the end of 2017.

There may be some serious talent available...and we'll have plenty of cash to throw around if we choose to do so.

 

[Jabba73]

Trouble is they can demand high picks for surplus players, then keep replacing them with high end talent.

The churn will be quality for a few more years yet.

 

[RoyalParade]

He's at a similar level to Sumner. It's interesting we asked for him specifically, so we must like some aspect of his play.

He has pace and X-factor, so I reckon he'll get a bigger look in than many of us suspect. Also a bigger size than some of our smaller forwards and to date has better form. Not certain he's got a massive future but he'll fill a need.

It's probably a shootout between lamb and smedts I'd say

 

[GapInIkonPark]

I do not agree with your bashing of Rogers, nor conversely, the exclusivity of your praise for SOS.

Recruiting should NEVER be about picking the best player available.

It should be about picking the best player to complement the Coach's game plan given the players currently on the list and their expected future development and fitting the player(s) recruited into the salary cap.

Central to the recruiting task is therefore that there be a "game plan", A game plan is a blueprint for the way in which the coach expects the team to win the ball against opposition clubs when the opposition have the ball and when it is in contest, transition the ball into a scoring opportunity, and kick the goals. The coach needs to know what type of player is most critically missing (or likely to become a critical miss in the future because of age, go home, or injury) for his game plan to work most effectively.

But, as I have said repeatedly, a game plan is ONLY good if it maximises (uses) the skills and talents of each individual player in the team and minimises (hides) the absence of skills and talents of each individual player in the team. Go game plans MUST be 2-way creations. A coach needs to imagine what sort of player he wants for his game plan but, when he has them, he needs to adapt the game plan to the players selected.

The above approach is very clearly that of Clarkson from the get go. He cleared the list of players that he didn't want (like Graham) and was prepared to cop beltings whilst he worked out who on the list he had he could use going forward. Then he added players specific to the needs of his game plan (a heap of left footers). You can see the planned purpose for each player recruited by the Hawks. The decisions to rid themselves of Mitchell and Lewis for Mitchell and JOM shows exactly the sort of strategic planning Clarkson constantly engages in. But he leaves it to the recruiters to get the type of player he orders within the confines of the salary cap.

The problem for Rogers, particularly in 2014, was that there was one and only one purpose in the recruiting we engaged in that off-season - MM hoped for a quick injection of talent to make finals and keep his job. As is now generally recognised MM didn't have any real game plan (or at least not one that caused any difficulties for modern coaches). He kept hoping that with good enough players and his undoubted tactical nous we could win enough games to, whatever.
Now sure, DVR didn't work out and some blame for Rogers there, but after Clem Smith and Foster were picked, ignoring Acadaemy and Father/son picks. 11 players were recruited who have played a total of 17 games in 2 yrs (11 games to Logan Austin) with nothing to get excited about with any other pick. So it is not like there were a heap of obvious choices left. And of course our drafting before DVR was about getting a 3 yr tall to make an immediate impact plus a mature aged BB to also have immediate impact. Not sure these were Rogers call exclusively. I certainly see the hand of MM.

Disagree. We recruited badly. Malthouse included.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

I can't find it anywhere, but does Graham's contract run out end of 2017?

My understanding is both Graham and Buckley have 1 year contracts to the end of Season 2017, as does Armfield, Wright and Casboult.

 

[La Dispute]

It's probably a shootout between lamb and smedts I'd say

I think we'd prefer Smedts in the team. We saw plenty of Lamb last year for little output. Lamb actually looks like he's bulked up a bit, but it could have just been the shots.

Lamb looked really good as a junior and showed class in small glimpses at Sydney but is really let down by his body shape and relative lack of pace for a small forward. He moves really well, but he can make deceptively bad decisions; ie he'll decide to take a player on instead of moving the ball inside or shimmy into a bad spot. He has obvious skill and poise but he isn't the most natural footballer.

Smedts has rare, freakish talent but it's been fleeting. It's unlikely the three will be on the list in two years but it'll be small victory if one remains.

 

[RoyalParade]

Have just looked at the free agents and players coming out of contract at the end of 2017.

There may be some serious talent available...and we'll have plenty of cash to throw around if we choose to do so.

Are you able to post a list? Cheers

 

[RoyalParade]

I think we'd prefer Smedts in the team. We saw plenty of Lamb last year for little output. Lamb actually looks like he's bulked up a bit, but it could have just been the shots.

Lamb looked really good as a junior and showed class in small glimpses at Sydney but is really let down by his body shape and relative lack of pace for a small forward. He moves really well, but he can make deceptively bad decisions; ie he'll decide to take a player on instead of moving the ball inside or shimmy into a bad spot. He has obvious skill and poise but he isn't the most natural footballer.

Smedts has rare, freakish talent but it's been fleeting. It's unlikely the three will be on the list in two years but it'll be small victory if one remains.

Yeah in think lamb is one of those players who you think should be much better than they actually are.

 

[Jeremias]

Are you able to post a list? Cheers

Of the players out of contract, or those I have some interest in?

I don't have the former, unfortunately. Just going off the contract threads on each team board on BF which are kept up to date.

 

[RoyalParade]

Of the players out of contract, or those I have some interest in?

I don't have the former, unfortunately. Just going off the contract threads on each team board on BF which are kept up to date.

No problems. What about the latter?