Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[Mr_Plow]

3 million dollarydoos!?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I'd absolutely agree that, to a certain extent, every premiership side is lucky, but as for being 'as convincing as nearly any team since essendon 2000' I'm far less convinced.

I could list specific examples - the flags from Geelong in 2007 and Hawthorn in 2008, for example - for better deserved flags. I could argue that the amount of injuries to the Bulldogs last season allowed them to unearth talent on their list that otherwise might have stayed in the reserves; Stevens, for example. I could go into the clear strategic advantage that the dogs got with regards to rule interpretations.

But, ultimately, the fact that with the amount of injuries they got, had last year been as every year prior to last year - and the finals started the week after the last round - they would have lost the first final. They'd still be short three-five key players, and it wouldn't have been enough to beat West Coast over there.

Then, they come against sides that haven't played a match for a week, after that bye which enabled them to rest their players. GWS had played 1 match in 3 weeks.

Finally, you have the fact that last season you could have thrown a blanket over the top six/seven sides. On their day, any of those teams could/should have won the grand final. The bulldogs were simply the best on the day, for four weeks straight.

This takes nothing away from them. They were one of the mentally toughest footy teams of recent history, and all that with the majority of the squad being incredibly young.

However, what it does do is make them outliers. I get that sides hoping to climb the ladder seek to replicate the best teams, but last year was an abberation, which went against history in terms of a wide variety of areas.

I'm reading 'the bulldogs proved that' entirely too often, and usually by those who are urging the rushing of our rebuild. Get Fyfe, get Martin, get Lynch; make a play in the interests of jumpstarting our rise up the ladder.

We've never done a rebuild properly. Let's get it right this time.

I agree with everything you say but just Essendon was the only side in the last 20 years at least who were clearly the best side and didn't need abit of luck to win it.
I was thinking Geelong 2007 but they got lucky in the prelim and only won by less then a goal.
Every team needs abit of luck to win a grand final

 

[Pafloyul]

I'd absolutely agree that, to a certain extent, every premiership side is lucky, but as for being 'as convincing as nearly any team since essendon 2000' I'm far less convinced.

I could list specific examples - the flags from Geelong in 2007 and Hawthorn in 2008, for example - for better deserved flags. I could argue that the amount of injuries to the Bulldogs last season allowed them to unearth talent on their list that otherwise might have stayed in the reserves; Stevens, for example. I could go into the clear strategic advantage that the dogs got with regards to rule interpretations.

But, ultimately, the fact that with the amount of injuries they got, had last year been as every year prior to last year - and the finals started the week after the last round - they would have lost the first final. They'd still be short three-five key players, and it wouldn't have been enough to beat West Coast over there.

Then, they come against sides that haven't played a match for a week, after that bye which enabled them to rest their players. GWS had played 1 match in 3 weeks.

Finally, you have the fact that last season you could have thrown a blanket over the top six/seven sides. On their day, any of those teams could/should have won the grand final. The bulldogs were simply the best on the day, for four weeks straight.

This takes nothing away from them. They were one of the mentally toughest footy teams of recent history, and all that with the majority of the squad being incredibly young.

However, what it does do is make them outliers. I get that sides hoping to climb the ladder seek to replicate the best teams, but last year was an abberation, which went against history in terms of a wide variety of areas.

I'm reading 'the bulldogs proved that' entirely too often, and usually by those who are urging the rushing of our rebuild. Get Fyfe, get Martin, get Lynch; make a play in the interests of jumpstarting our rise up the ladder.

We've never done a rebuild properly. Let's get it right this time.

Agreed, if it happens quicker than expected, all well and good but let's not take half measures. We are only a little past halfway but it's fun seeing the building blocks gradually being put into place.

More concerned with the cost in picks rather than salary that it'll take to use up that cap space.

We need to be hitting the top end of the draft for midfielders.

Yep, considering our first will likely be a very low number. Darcy Fogarty on the wish list for this year just as Weitering was for his year.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Agreed, if it happens quicker than expected, all well and good but let's not take half measures. We are only a little past halfway but it's fun seeing the building blocks gradually being put into place.


Yep, considering our first will likely be a very low number. Darcy Fogarty on the wish list for this year just as Weitering was for his year.

Low as in low like lower end of first ... or low as in high?

 

[katmanblue]

We're interested in players 20-25 age bracket but still tuned going to be good times ahead going to have over 3mil salary cap space at end of the year

Can you trade away cap space (temporarily)? Not sure how it would work, but it would interesting if we could turn 1 mil into a couple of draft picks.

I think there is something along those lines in the nba. I could be wrong though.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Can you trade away cap space (temporarily)? Not sure how it would work, but it would interesting if we could turn 1 mil into a couple of draft picks.

I think there is something along those lines in the nba. I could be wrong though.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

Closest thing I can think of is the NFL where a team recently sent an overpaid player and high draft picks to another team with heaps of cap space to get him off their books. So this team got an overpaid player but they had heaps of cap room and now a couple extra high picks.

 

[Metalcrusher]

No difference to us taking salary dumps off GWS to get the trades we wanted I suppose.

 

[DangerousD]

Can you trade away cap space (temporarily)? Not sure how it would work, but it would interesting if we could turn 1 mil into a couple of draft picks.

I think there is something along those lines in the nba. I could be wrong though.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

Let's say Adelaide value Gibbs as a 1st round pick.
We could offer to pay Gibbs salary until the end of his contract, meaning Adelaide can keep lever and Gov.

In exchange we get a 1st and a 2nd or something else. But that is similiar.

 

[AB_Blue]

Let's say Adelaide value Gibbs as a 1st round pick.
We could offer to pay Gibbs salary until the end of his contract, meaning Adelaide can keep lever and Gov.

In exchange we get a 1st and a 2nd or something else. But that is similiar.

I don't mind that

We have enormous cap space and gives us the picks we need

Flexibility to trade or keep the Adelaide 2nd rounder as we don't have one next year

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[Funk]

I don't mind that

We have enormous cap space and gives us the picks we need

Flexibility to trade or keep the Adelaide 2nd rounder as we don't have one next year

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If Crows had not been such dicks last year then it was quite possible to do this deal then.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Can you trade away cap space (temporarily)? Not sure how it would work, but it would interesting if we could turn 1 mil into a couple of draft picks.

I think there is something along those lines in the nba. I could be wrong though.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

Effectively, by taking on a player still on contract you are helping the other side create some salary cap space. Where the player is not that great, it might be called a 'salary dump'.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Low as in low like lower end of first ... or low as in high?

High picks are the lowest number.
Like golf, the lowest score is the winner.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

I don't mind that

We have enormous cap space and gives us the picks we need

Flexibility to trade or keep the Adelaide 2nd rounder as we don't have one next year

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What if we take Lever and that allows us to push out Rowe from the best 22?

 

[therubbernub]

We're interested in players 20-25 age bracket but still tuned going to be good times ahead going to have over 3mil salary cap space at end of the year

 

[DangerousD]

I don't mind that

We have enormous cap space and gives us the picks we need

Flexibility to trade or keep the Adelaide 2nd rounder as we don't have one next year

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Where else or how else could we use this tactic?

 

[AB_Blue]

If Crows had not been such dicks last year then it was quite possible to do this deal then.

Yes but we get another year off Gibbs, protecting the kids before we release him to chace premiership glory


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[AB_Blue]

What if we take Lever and that allows us to push out Rowe from the best 22?

We need mids


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[therubbernub]

We're interested in players 20-25 age bracket but still tuned going to be good times ahead going to have over 3mil salary cap space at end of the year

I hope we are looking at TWO top shelf free agents eg fyfe and martin. We can use the fact that one is coming if the other agrees to come as leverage. That would be game changing. Add our first pick to pick up another midfielder-hopefully a Petracca type.

Midfield

Fyfe
Martin
Cripps
Petracca type
Gibbs
Murphy
SPS
Curnow,/Polson/cuningham/fisher

 

[AB_Blue]

Where else or how else could we use this tactic?

As long as we use the picks to pick up good kids or target a hard body inside/outside mid

Hapoy days


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[therubbernub]

Let's say Adelaide value Gibbs as a 1st round pick.
We could offer to pay Gibbs salary until the end of his contract, meaning Adelaide can keep lever and Gov.

In exchange we get a 1st and a 2nd or something else. But that is similiar.

But the crows look top 4 . I dont thing a pick in the 14+ bracket would be good enough

 

[GapInIkonPark]

We need mids


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Yes, but Adelaide will not give us any that we want.Nor McGovern nor Cameron, both of who we asked for. So if it is Gibbs, a first round pick and something else, then maybe we can work Lever into it and save our draft picks for mids.

 

[Azul]

Gibbs' value diminishes by the year. If we were offended by Adelaide's offer last year then less so this year.

He will be 29 in March, so if he still wants to leave take the top 20 pick and whatever fringe player they chuck at us.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Gibbs' value diminishes by the year. If we were offended by Adelaide's offer last year then less so this year.

He will be 29 in March, so if he still wants to leave take the top 20 pick and whatever fringe player they chuck at us.

Sure, but he still has 2 years to go on his contract.
Adelaide want him because they believe he is the difference between missing a prelim and getting into a GF. They have a clutch of stars towards the end of their careers.
We lack mids.
So we are in a position to drive a hard bargain, and we should do so.

 

[DangerousD]

But the crows look top 4 . I dont thing a pick in the 14+ bracket would be good enough

I was more referring to, what is us paying his salary worth to them. Can we pay his salary to get an extra pick/higher pick.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

I was more referring to, what is us paying his salary worth to them. Can we pay his salary to get an extra pick/higher pick.

It may well be. If Adelaide's cap is tight and we are struggling to achieve the minimum cap spend, then we should absolutely drive for a bargain. We pay half, we want two first rounders one 2017 one 2018 and we will give you a second rounder back.