Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[cookie monster]

So with Jones apparently being groomed by Bolton to be a CHB, is this to free up someone like Marchbank into the forward line, or Williamson to move onto the wing/centre? Obviously this hasn't been tried out at AFL level, so we don't know how this will turn out, but if true, this would be a short term thing to give our other defenders the flexibility of learning other positions? I can't really say...

I don't see why he couldn't assume the position that Simon White occupies, or even Sam Rowe

 

[Cliffords Blues]

Thoughts on Patty MaCartin?
Not sure on his contract status
Cannot get a sniff at a recall at present, or just out of favor.
Surely if he doesn't crack a recall or a good run back in the 1's, he might be worth a look?
Doubt we woulds have to give up a 1st round pick for a guy not getting a regular run.

 

[Funk]

Reid would be a much better fit for us, than Schache.
Reid is only 25, giving him anything up to 7 years left in the game and being a FA just makes it all the more appealing.

This one makes sense to me, unless we have something special in sights, next year or the year after.
We do though have to start spending our bankings, now though.

Agree Reid would be ideal for us.

However we don't want FA's in/out in the same year or we don't get compo for those leaving.

 

[Moody Blue]

Did someone actually suggest that we keep Jaksch and/or Jones? We need top 20 picks, as many as we can get. We have an aging midfield that needs to be overhauled in the next few years, and Cripps needs some help. It is pointless having a Rolls Royce forward line if you cannot get the ball into them.

It has taken Casboult 7 years to learn how to kick a football and everyone is euphoric. He is trade bait and should be considered as such. He won't be part of the next successful team.

 

[Moody Blue]

Found an interesting article. Fairly good summation of the past 7 years. Quite depressing really.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-02-25/top-blues-recruiter-quits

Head of football Andrew McKay said (Shane) Rogers had been a "tremendous asset" to the club's recruiting team and would be missed.

"He has been diligent and thorough in examining up-and-coming talent, securing the likes of Rising Star nominee Troy Menzel, first-round pick Patrick Cripps and Irishmen Ciaran Byrne and Ciaran Sheehan," McKay said.

2009 National Draft

No. 12 Kane Lucas Delisted
No. 43 Marcus Davies Delisted
No. 59 Rohan Kerr Delisted
No. 72 RE Sam Jacobs Traded
No. 83 RE Aaron Joseph Delisted
Trade Lachie Henderson TICK
Trade Brock McLean Delisted TICK

TRADING Brendan Fevola for Lachie Henderson was the right move, but they paid a big price for taking Kane Lucas ahead of Daniel Talia.
Trading Jacobs the following year for No. 33 (Patrick McCarthy) and No. 67 (Andrew McInnes) was a mistake.

Nick Duigan is one of many Carlton recruits that have been moved on.
2010 National Draft

No. 18 Matthew Watson Delisted
No. 34 Patrick McCarthy Delisted
No. 42 Luke Mitchell Delisted
No. 67 Andrew McInnes Delisted
No. 70 Nick Duigan Delisted
No. 85 (RE) Jeff Garlett Traded for two picks not used
No. 99 (RE) David Ellard Delisted
No. 108 Simon White
Trade Andrew Collins Delisted
Trade Jeremy Laidler Delisted

A second-straight wipe-out at the draft. Watson may be lucky to stay beyond this season and Garlett was moved on after losing focus and confidence last season. Still hurts to see him kicking goals at Demonland.

2011 National Draft

No. 22 Josh Bootsma Delisted
No. 44 Sam Rowe
No. 62 (FS) Dylan Buckley

ANOTHER first-round pick went down the drain when the Blues punted Bootsma for sending inappropriate text messages, continuing a string of off-field issues. Shane Rogers found a gem in Rowe and Buckley is in the VFL. (He can never be forgiven for Bootsma)

2012 National Draft

No. 11 Troy Menzel Delisted
No. 35 Tom Temay Delisted
No. 54 Nick Graham
No. 89 (RE) Levi Casboult
No. 102 (RE) Zach Tuohy Traded

MENZEL was one of the best picks of the draft, but clubs who have successfully rebuilt have hit gold in the middle rounds and Temay was unsighted at AFL level. Graham has had knee trouble, holding him back.

Patrick Cripps is one player who might finally provide a win for Carlton’s recruiters.
2013 National Draft

No. 13 Patrick Cripps
No. 39 Cameron Giles Delisted
No. 51 Nick Holman?
No. 89 (RE) Ed Curnow
No. 94 (RE) Tom Bell Traded
RFA Dale Thomas
Trade Sam Docherty TICK

Trade Andrejs Everitt Delisted

CRIPPS will be a star and the Blues were clear winners from the Docherty and Everitt trades. Hard-nuts Bell and Curnow add midfield depth but Thomas didn’t meet his own expectations in first season in navy Blue.

2014 National Draft

No. 19 Blaine Boekhorst
No. 28 Dillon Vojo Rainbow Delisted
No. 60 Clem Smith Delisted
No. 63 Jayden Foster Delisted
DFA Matthew Dick Delisted
Trade Kristian Jaksch
Trade Liam Jones
Trade Mark Whiley Delisted

WAS a big call to take mature-age WAFL wingman Boekhorst at No. 19. Has started the season in VFL but can become next Isaac Smith, according to one talent expert. Sacrificed pick No. 7 to bring in Whiley and Jaksch from GWS and Boekhorst.
By the close of 2017 all of the 2014 draft would have been been delisted. Has to go down as one of the worst selections ever.

 

[bluemahogany]

So with Jones apparently being groomed by Bolton to be a CHB, is this to free up someone like Marchbank into the forward line, or Williamson to move onto the wing/centre? Obviously this hasn't been tried out at AFL level, so we don't know how this will turn out, but if true, this would be a short term thing to give our other defenders the flexibility of learning other positions? I can't really say...

Groomed is a pretty strong term, he's just playing their out of necessity because we use most of our key backs in the ones, and I think the club would rather have Mckay and Jaksch play forward in the VFL.

 

[Red Bull]

Your comparing a dime a dozen midfielder with an anus attitude, to a 200cm KPF taken at No. 2 18 months ago, who performed exceedingly well in his first year given the lack of older experience around him.

Brisbane are under no obligation to deal with us exclusively regardless of a nomination. I full expect them to dig their heels in on him leaving

Wrong .
I'm in no way comparing the players ... just the situation .
If Schache decides to leave and nominates Carlton , Brisbane are indeed obliged to deal with us or alternatively , lose him to the draft for nothing .
Mathews dug his heels in re Aish , and in the end copped the best deal he could ... as he had too .

 

[Funk]

I've never been a huge fan of Reid, and I'd rather we steered well clear of him.

He certainly has talent but at 26 he's still yet to develop any consistency to his game & he's obviously had his fair share of injuries throughout his career.

For the money we'd likely have to offer to bring him across, he's simply not worth it. Not even close IMO. More than happy to let Collingwood pay big bucks for him so that he can play with his brother.

If we're throwing big money at a key forward I'd much rather it be Schache, even though we'd obviously have to trade for him.

JS will cost 2 highish picks.

Would you prefer JS or Reid and 2 MID's taken high in the draft?

 

[Blue__Balls]

Alright Blue Balls, you reckon Brisbane are just going to roll over and accept what we tell them is fair? Richmond will likely offer something more than us because their list management is anus, and Brisbane will again try to make a stand that they won't accept their young players leaving the club after 2 years to Clubs that are obviously courting them throughout their tenure.

Leigh Matthews is on the record as saying they weren't happy with Docherty leaving, and therefore there probably isn't much if any goodwill in a trading relationship. Only way we get him cheap is with a strong position in the PSD, and that doesn't look likely either.

I think they'd start negotiations at a top 5 pick and at least a second rounder, and if they can't stop Schache leaving they'll accept something fairly close to that.

Making a stand works well when the player is contracted (see: Gibbs, Ablett, McCarthy) but not so much when there's no existing contract to honour.

Goodwill is a luxury, anything we lost in obtaining Docherty (and we did underpay) has been balanced out by the fact that they rolled us for Robinson after we tried to shop him around before delisting him, and Bell who we let go for a song because he needed to get back to Qld for family reasons. I don't think Brisbane will have any issue dealing with us if we comer to the negotiating table with a reasonable offer.

In terms of competition, sure we could be outbid by Collingwood or Richmond. Schache still has to be happy to go to one of those clubs though (and maybe he will be). If one of them is willing to offer up two first rounders (theoretically Richmond with their first + Geelong's) then more power to them. I still think you're overvaluing Schache though. Established game-winning players with plenty of runs on the board *might* get their club two first rounders. Plenty of them don't though, and I don't think Schache has done anywhere near enough to command that sort of deal.

Tom Boyd is probably the closests recent comparison you'll find - he went for Pick 6 and Griffen (who'd be worth something around Pick 12-18), and Boyd was contracted. Uncontracted, Pick 6 and a sweetener would absolutely have got the deal done.

 

[Blue__Balls]

JS will cost 2 highish picks.

Would you prefer JS or Reid and 2 MID's taken high in the draft?

I'd prefer a mid and a forward taken in the draft, and keep Jones or Jaksch on for an extra season on $250k tops. Is that an option?

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

2014 National Draft

No. 19 Blaine Boekhorst
No. 28 Dillon Vojo Rainbow Delisted
No. 60 Clem Smith Delisted
No. 63 Jayden Foster Delisted
DFA Matthew Dick Delisted
Trade Kristian Jaksch
Trade Liam Jones
Trade Mark Whiley Delisted

WAS a big call to take mature-age WAFL wingman Boekhorst at No. 19. Has started the season in VFL but can become next Isaac Smith, according to one talent expert. Sacrificed pick No. 7 to bring in Whiley and Jaksch from GWS and Boekhorst.
By the close of 2017 all of the 2014 draft would have been been delisted. Has to go down as one of the worst selections ever.

I agree drafting cost us a shot at being a genuine contender during the judd era.

the one thing i will say about 2014 was that it was a good key position draft but the vast majority of the smalls from that draft have been crap. 2016 draft class of smalls is already better.

 

[Keyza]

Not sure there would be too many quality players wanting to come to our club if we are seen as a club to be using players as bargaining chips when they get a bit older . Thats incredibly shortsighted imo and certainly doesnt lend itself to building a team of players that want to play with passion for the club .

I am with you on this. Imagine our team without Kreuzer and Casboult.
We would be non competitive and another bottom 4 finish is almost a certainty. Why would players want to stay and why would players want to come to our club if we continue to stay near the bottom of the ladder?
Both of these players may or may not be part of our next premiership but we cannot simply bring in a bunch of kids and not surround them with good senior players.

 

[SafeAsMilk]

Sam Reid would be the wrong move IMO. Too old. Too expensive, and not good enough. We need elite talent, not top-ups just because they're "free".

 

[Keyza]

Did someone actually suggest that we keep Jaksch and/or Jones? We need top 20 picks, as many as we can get. We have an aging midfield that needs to be overhauled in the next few years, and Cripps needs some help. It is pointless having a Rolls Royce forward line if you cannot get the ball into them.

It has taken Casboult 7 years to learn how to kick a football and everyone is euphoric. He is trade bait and should be considered as such. He won't be part of the next successful team.

How does anyone know when the next successful era will be?
Who would have thought that the WB would win the premiership last year?
Our turn may come earlier than some of us think but it wont if we keep moving on some our better players simply because they are over a certain age.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I am with you on this. Imagine our team without Kreuzer and Casboult.
We would be non competitive and another bottom 4 finish is almost a certainty. Why would players want to stay and why would players want to come to our club if we continue to stay near the bottom of the ladder?
Both of these players may or may not be part of our next premiership but we cannot simply bring in a bunch of kids and not surround them with good senior players.

Cas better not kick too many goals as his trade value will skyrocket and be a sure thing to be traded as our leading goalkicker

 

[HARKER]

Which mids are FA's next year?

That's where we'll look likely be looking, along with attaining a Hopper and a first round mid this year.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Sam Reid would be the wrong move IMO. Too old. Too expensive, and not good enough. We need elite talent, not top-ups just because they're "free".

Cant like this post enough.

 

[Jeremias]

Which mids are FA's next year?

That's where we'll look likely be looking, along with attaining a Hopper and a first round mid this year.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...nts-updated-list-in-op.1126586/#post-50181949
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...nts-updated-list-in-op.1126586/#post-50181949

A couple of handy footballers in that lot.

 

[HARKER]

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...nts-updated-list-in-op.1126586/#post-50181949

A couple of handy footballers in that lot.

Thanks Jeremias

Tom Lynch stands out like a sore thumb.
The Geelong pair of Guthrie & Duncan are solid without being exceptional midfielders.
Dogs F/S's aren't likely to be looking for a new home either.

Can't help wondering how much work SOS may have put into Lynch?
If ever you want a KPF, he'd be the one and would make for the icing on the cake after we've nailed our midfield.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

How does anyone know when the next successful era will be?
Who would have thought that the WB would win the premiership last year?
Our turn may come earlier than some of us think but it wont if we keep moving on some our better players simply because they are over a certain age.

The problem is we only have one pick inside 40 this season. So there's every chance if we don't trade we might only bring in one player that actually "makes" it. They along with Gibbs are about the only older tradable players in our side. If we stuff up a couple of top end draft picks over the next couple of years then we will at best stagnate the rebuild and do what we have done in the past and just hang around the middle of the pack.
The way I see it our only way to get a slight edge over our opposition at the draft is to trade away players we may not want to lose.

 

[The Dominator7]

Thanks Jeremias

Tom Lynch stands out like a sore thumb.
The Geelong pair of Guthrie & Duncan are solid without being exceptional midfielders.
Dogs F/S's aren't likely to be looking for a new home either.

Can't help wondering how much work SOS may have put into Lynch?
If ever you want a KPF, he'd be the one and would make for the icing on the cake after we've nailed our midfield.

C'mon Harks, you missed the best one, and he's unrestricted....Nice big juicey offer for Sloane just to say thanks to the Crows!!

 

[Blue__Balls]

Thanks Jeremias

Tom Lynch stands out like a sore thumb.
The Geelong pair of Guthrie & Duncan are solid without being exceptional midfielders.
Dogs F/S's aren't likely to be looking for a new home either.

Can't help wondering how much work SOS may have put into Lynch?
If ever you want a KPF, he'd be the one and would make for the icing on the cake after we've nailed our midfield.

Cam Guthrie, Isaac Smith, Jeremy McGovern, Luke Dahlhaus, Tom Lynch.

I've be approaching those 5 in particular. McGovern and Lynch would be very difficult gets but not impossible, I reckon, Guthrie dependent on how Geelong go this year and next. Dahlhaus might be squeezed by the Dog's big spending, and doesn't have family ties to the club.

Smith the most gettable of that lot with Hawthorn's epic fall from grace - he's also a very good example of a "cherry" type player that you could add once the bulk of the list is going well.

 

[Robertio]

Ruckmen do not usually come good until late in there 20's and Kruezer is just starting to blossom.

He ******* Stays!!!

Loves the club and the supporters love him!

Yep Yep & Yep.

 

[Pafloyul]

I am with you on this. Imagine our team without Kreuzer and Casboult.
We would be non competitive and another bottom 4 finish is almost a certainty. Why would players want to stay and why would players want to come to our club if we continue to stay near the bottom of the ladder?
Both of these players may or may not be part of our next premiership but we cannot simply bring in a bunch of kids and not surround them with good senior players.

Where do we get the required players from, then? We can't give up too many high draft picks because that leaves too many holes in the side and leaves the side too weighted towards players playing for themselves and the money. We can't give up players that other teams might rate because that leaves us susceptible in the short term. We can't simply rely on our own own draft picks because not all drafts are deep and we are slowly rising up the ladder (and are already missing a second round selection) which means the selections aren't going to be that high.

I give up!

 

[SE_Blue]

Think we absolutely must keep Casboult (barring an offer for some ridiculous figure like 1m for 4 years that he wants us to match). Only forward who looks like taking a mark with Weitering struggling with injury. McKay will be good I reckon but no certainty as of yet.

Wasn't sure either way on Reid but after reading the last few pages it we can get him relatively cheap then yes, otherwise no.

Has Schache not come on at the Lions? Imagine he would be hard to get anyway if he wanted to go & we wanted him. #2 pick wasn't he? Doubt we'd have much to offer the Lions as they'd surely want a bit.