Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[rp84]

Pretty sure it's been said a million times by people 'in the know ' that MK ain't going anyway.

I'm happy with that (unless some bimbo team is going to pay him a mill a year and we can get pick 3..)

 

[rp84]

We will need some senior hard bodies added this year.

Look for some more 30yo DFAs to be added to provide some veteran leadership/hard bodies.

 

[DangerousD]

Can't Krueze do a Dangerfield and ask to be traded instead of leaving via free agency? If I remember correctly Danger was a free agent but he was traded to Geelong as he wanted Adelaide properly compensated.
What would we be able to get for him in a trade?

We will get more if he leaves via FA.
If Kruz leaves you would assume to a team who is challenging, meaning their 2nd round pick will be quite high.
In our position band 3 compo ATM is pick 22

 

[Arr0w]

If Kreuzer walks and Gibbs is traded and we don't net a FA, we need all of them to wind up better than average, and 5 of them elite.

Jimmae a couple of points then perhaps we should move on, happy for you to reply if you feel the need

• None of those players will be around when our premiership window opens
• Not sure why you keep stating we should keep Kreuzer, given we have no control if he wants to move on
• Gibbs wanted out of the club last year, so if we can get a deal done that will nett us valuable picks/players, SOS will do the deal
• I am happy to concede that both are in elite form, but why would the break even require 5 of our kids to become elite, just doesn't make sense

Given what we have seen transpire over the last 18 months, I will back the club, no matter the outcome

 

[Andypooh23]

We will get more if he leaves via FA.
If Kruz leaves you would assume to a team who is challenging, meaning their 2nd round pick will be quite high.
In our position band 3 compo ATM is pick 22

Deledio was worth a 1st rounder to GWS.
You would think that Kruezer is worth more than a late 2nd rounder.

 

[katmanblue]

28ish? We are 17th. 22 right now

Figure a priority pick for Brisbane.

Also probably a couple of band 1s
Kelly, Fyfe, Martin or band 2s

Then any academy /father-son selection being matched.

Anyway, i did say ish...

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

After hearing Bolton say we need midfielders i am convinced Gibbs will be staying with us.

My prediction is this:

We select midfielder with our first pick
Let Casboult go as free agent and use that pick for a midfielder
Get either Fyfe or Martin as free agent.

Im sure Barass said we have no interest in either of them.

 

[katmanblue]

Pretty sure it's been said a million times by people 'in the know ' that MK ain't going anyway.

I'm happy with that (unless some bimbo team is going to pay him a mill a year and we can get pick 3..)

With so much cap room opening up for everyone its not outside the realms of possibility.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DangerousD]

Deledio was worth a 1st rounder to GWS.
You would think that Kruezer is worth more than a late 2nd rounder.

Right now if Kruz got us band 3 it would be pick 22, that's an early second rounder.
GWS also were still able to take 2 kids in the first round.
Of course it's possible but imo I don't think anyone would offer a 1st rounder for him as he's a FA, it defeats the purpose.

 

[DangerousD]

Im sure Barass said we have no interest in either of them.

Is Barass 100% right all the time?

 

[DangerousD]

Figure a priority pick for Brisbane.

Also probably a couple of band 1s
Kelly, Fyfe, Martin or band 2s

Then any academy /father-son selection being matched.

Anyway, i did say ish...

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

You're right, it will most likely go out a few. TBH I don't see Brisbane getting another PP, who knows we might get one or a generous pick if one of our FA"s leave.

CAS to the lions, band 3 compo.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

We will need some senior hard bodies added this year.

Look for some more 30yo DFAs to be added to provide some veteran leadership/hard bodies.

How many 30 year old veteran players do we need on the provisio we are holding on to Gibbs, Kruezer, Murphy, Simpson, Thomas, Rowe, Ed Curnow, White, ASOS, Wright etc for experience? . That's almost a quarter of the list as it is before we add in players in their mid 20's. Pretty sure Barass said the age profile we are looking at is 20 - 25 years this trade period.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Is Barass 100% right all the time?

Generally on the money. No reason to think what he says isn't right.

 

[BigFrizz36]

If Kreuzer walks and Gibbs is traded and we don't net a FA, we need all of them to wind up better than average, and 5 of them elite.


They'd want to be a hell of a lot better than what Phillips has done so far.


It's not voodoo. There's a clear logic to it, and he ultimately overplayed his hand with Tuohy. In fact, the biggest 'wins' we've had so far in what SOS has done have been on-trading GWS future 2nd for those later picks (which was roughly equal on DVI points) and Yarran for pick 19 (Cuningham at what became pick 23).

By the end of next year, the net result of the Menzel trade might be Menzel for Plowman and Sumner. I still call that a win, but I can also recall being a bit miffed about what we would do with pick 28 to improve a list barren for elite skills. What us plebs were missing was the contract estimates of the GWS players and our relative cap position to the rest of the league after we'd sent 4 high-earning players out the door.

For years I'd been scratching my head at some of the trade valuations we'd seen for players in the AFL, and suddenly trades had started to make economic sense. Go back through my posts in this thread if you want an idea of what I think we'll do, and take note that we don't need to jettison anyone via free agency to accomplish it.

i think that in due course we will be saying that the best trading was taking the pick 21 we got for bell and adding it to our 2nd (20) and trading them both to the bullies for the pick that got us charlie curnow. dogs got dunkley and collins but that genuinely looks like long term great trading.

 

[Jimmae]

Jimmae a couple of points then perhaps we should move on, happy for you to reply if you feel the need

• None of those players will be around when our premiership window opens
• Not sure why you keep stating we should keep Kreuzer, given we have no control if he wants to move on
• Gibbs wanted out of the club last year, so if we can get a deal done that will nett us valuable picks/players, SOS will do the deal
• I am happy to concede that both are in elite form, but why would the break even require 5 of our kids to become elite, just doesn't make sense

Given what we have seen transpire over the last 18 months, I will back the club, no matter the outcome

1. So you're saying that we won't be contesting for a premiership before 2021, or that they have an expiration date at 30?

2. Take that to mean I think we should be offering him a contract worthy of band 2 compensation.

3. Then that trade period needs to generate something that can be immediately injected into our midfield and be ready to smash it from 2019 onwards. A bonafide elite senior midfielder.

4. Who else have we got then? Murphy and Cripps? Weitering and SPS aren't there yet, but they're both good chances. We need a core group that strikes fear into teams. Hawthorn had Buddy, Roughead, Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell that they built around. Geelong had Selwood, Ablett, Scarlett, Bartel and Taylor. Without Gibbs and Kreuzer, who will our five be?

I mean look, it doesn't have to be 5 if there's a good spread of quality, but we cannot just chuck Gibbs out the door for nothing, and Kreuzer is of even more structural importance considering our current stocks.

 

[Andypooh23]

Figure a priority pick for Brisbane.

Also probably a couple of band 1s
Kelly, Fyfe, Martin or band 2s

Then any academy /father-son selection being matched.

Anyway, i did say ish...

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

Kelly is not a free agent so no Band 1 compensation for him.

 

[katmanblue]

Kelly is not a free agent so no Band 1 compensation for him.

Ahh..

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ferrisb]

I think that St.Kilda & Hawthorn may have had an understanding and willingness to help one another in the way we had with GWS.

All good things come to an end though.

AFTER we raid Hopper, Whitfield, Kennedy and a salary dump this year, pls....

 

[BigFrizz36]

1. So you're saying that we won't be contesting for a premiership before 2021, or that they have an expiration date at 30?

2. Take that to mean I think we should be offering him a contract worthy of band 2 compensation.

3. Then that trade period needs to generate something that can be immediately injected into our midfield and be ready to smash it from 2019 onwards. A bonafide elite senior midfielder.

4. Who else have we got then? Murphy and Cripps? Weitering and SPS aren't there yet, but they're both good chances. We need a core group that strikes fear into teams. Hawthorn had Buddy, Roughead, Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell that they built around. Geelong had Selwood, Ablett, Scarlett, Bartel and Taylor. Without Gibbs and Kreuzer, who will our five be?

I mean look, it doesn't have to be 5 if there's a good spread of quality, but we cannot just chuck Gibbs out the door for nothing, and Kreuzer is of even more structural importance considering our current stocks.

just be thankful that the "we must trade everything of value to get precious draft picks" people have no say in it. has never worked as a single strategy and never will. same people would gave traded out boyd murphy and morris from the doggies when they were down because "they wont be around when our next premiership window opens". strategy should be simple. 1) Keep key personnel who are professional and lead by example. 2) hit drafts hard by trading out players who dont qualify under 1) and 3) monitor situation and add key components as required by whatever means are available (trades and free agency).
so far so good.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Pretty sure it's been said a million times by people 'in the know ' that MK ain't going anyway.

I'm happy with that (unless some bimbo team is going to pay him a mill a year and we can get pick 3..)

if the bulldogs could afford that i think kruezer is worth a billion a year to them. honestly he'd make them one formidable outfit.

 

[Jimmae]

i think that in due course we will be saying that the best trading was taking the pick 21 we got for bell and adding it to our 2nd (20) and trading them both to the bullies for the pick that got us charlie curnow. dogs got dunkley and collins but that genuinely looks like long term great trading.

That was a calculated risk that resulted in what turned out to be an equitable trade, though I'll admit to being confounded at the time as to the exact nature of what was exchanged and commented that we had blinked.

In the end we jumped up to where we thought the first band of talent was about to drop, and the Dogs got to fill in gaps. They went way too early on Collins, and Dunkley's lack of pace doesn't hurt their overall midfield setup. That in no way mitigates the possibilities of what we could have done with those picks, including other trades to create more opportunities (though this would have more than likely been trading down, rather than up).

We're lucky that Charlie slipped and Gold Coast liked Ah Chee so much, though I suspect we knew the latter going in, so Weideman, Francis or Milera would have been happily taken.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

1. So you're saying that we won't be contesting for a premiership before 2021, or that they have an expiration date at 30?

2. Take that to mean I think we should be offering him a contract worthy of band 2 compensation.

3. Then that trade period needs to generate something that can be immediately injected into our midfield and be ready to smash it from 2019 onwards. A bonafide elite senior midfielder.

4. Who else have we got then? Murphy and Cripps? Weitering and SPS aren't there yet, but they're both good chances. We need a core group that strikes fear into teams. Hawthorn had Buddy, Roughead, Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell that they built around. Geelong had Selwood, Ablett, Scarlett, Bartel and Taylor. Without Gibbs and Kreuzer, who will our five be?

I mean look, it doesn't have to be 5 if there's a good spread of quality, but we cannot just chuck Gibbs out the door for nothing, and Kreuzer is of even more structural importance considering our current stocks.

I think if you want to build around 5 elite or key players for an open premiership window then that five shouldn't be including either Gibbs or Kruezer. I would think you would be wanting to build around Weitering, Cripps, SPS, Charlie, Docherty, Williamson etc as the keys.

 

[Blue and Silver]

For the most part I think the priority needs to be a goal-kicking forward.

Not a marking forward, not a mid who can play forward, not a pressure forward or a skillful high half-forward.

Someone who puts the scoreboard pressure on, however they get it.

It's probably more important then a mid right now, what with Curnow, Cuningham, Fisher, Petrevski-Seton all showing something

 

[Jimmae]

I think if you want to build around 5 elite or key players for an open premiership window then that five shouldn't be including either Gibbs or Kruezer. I would think you would be wanting to build around Weitering, Cripps, SPS, Charlie, Docherty, Williamson etc as the keys.

Look at the five names I've given you, and you'll notice that they are genuine key position players, and genuine midfielders.

You've given me - at best - one genuine key position player, two genuine midfielders, a tall utility and two running defenders.

Now I'll grant you, they all look great right now, but is Docherty going to become a stoppage general and organiser like Hodge or Bartel were? Is Charlie going to transform into Roughhead? McKay to Buddy?

We don't even know if Williamson will successfully move into midfield at this point, and Docherty isn't even half way there. Murphy (29), Gibbs (28) and Kreuzer (28) are only a smidge older than what Hodge (27), Mitchell (28) and Lewis (26) were at the start of Hawthorn's run 5 years ago.

We have pooled all these resources with the express intent of being ready to go for 2019, and that means hanging onto some senior talent, as well as spending some money (and arguably future picks) this coming off-season to start preparing for that year.

The bulk of our squad meant for top 4 footy should be in place after this coming off-season, particularly those under 23. We've gone through all our under-performing and superfluous talent that had outside value, so every trade onwards must be extremely close to, or over, market value.

Look at what Hawthorn paid for Burgoyne, and ask yourself: is Gibbs worth more, or less? Clearly more, so we should be expecting a top 10 pick and then some, depending on the quality of this draft and what Adelaide are willing to setup using or part with from their list.

I don't give two shits what barass has said about Fyfe or Martin: we have money to burn, we have a GWS list that will have wantaway players, and we have the cap space coming up that will allow us to do all of this and retain our best players. We should do all of those things, or improve the outcome further should someone wish to take Carlton players away from us.

If it winds up being Kelly instead of an elite free agent this year, great, but that doesn't automatically create a situation where Gibbs goes cheaply just because Adelaide asked again. At the very least, money needs to be spent, and it shouldn't all be dropped on Plowman, Docherty, our recent draftees and depth players.

 

[ParapMarkets]

For the most part I think the priority needs to be a goal-kicking forward.

Not a marking forward, not a mid who can play forward, not a pressure forward or a skillful high half-forward.

Someone who puts the scoreboard pressure on, however they get it.

It's probably more important then a mid right now, what with Curnow, Cuningham, Fisher, Petrevski-Seton all showing something

A Toby Greene type player would be awesome. Consistent goal kicker and link player that can push into the midfield. Going forward I hope we can get a Bulldogs type team where the majority of our players can push into the middle at various stages. Guys like Fisher, SPS, Cripps spending time in the middle and up forward. It has to help your two way running ability when you share the workload like the doggies do.