2017 Non Crows AFL Discussion Thread

[Vooligan]

Charlie Manson goes to hospital people cheer and post messages hoping he dies painfully, St James goes to hospital and everybody starts eulogizing him. As great a player he was he has absolutely ruined one club and potentially ruined a lot of lives in the process. Yet people still defend him.

If that was Roo I would wipe him.

Did you really just compare Charles Manson to James Hird?

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

The sad thing is that if he had just fallen on his own sword back in 2013 and admitted responsibility, it most probably would have all blown over now and he would have regained some credibility for manning up and taking one for the club.

He risked everything (money/reputation) to try and get out of it on a technicality and lost. He now needs to make peace with his actions and move on and find something new because he'll never be involved in football ever again.

Seems like he not only risked money and reputation but also his marriage

James was a great footballer however he was prepared to watch other officials fall on their swords while he continued to take no responsibility and play the victim, its sad to hear that he has intentionally tried to poison himself but I tend to agree if James had taken responsibility early in the investigation the impact would have been different

You only have to look at the Cronulla Sharks situation

 

[jenny61_99]

The sad thing is that if he had just fallen on his own sword back in 2013 and admitted responsibility, it most probably would have all blown over now and he would have regained some credibility for manning up and taking one for the club.

He risked everything (money/reputation) to try and get out of it on a technicality and lost. He now needs to make peace with his actions and move on and find something new because he'll never be involved in football ever again.

I remember saying this back in the beginning. When he first stood up and said "As coach I take full responsibility" I thought thats amazing, that's the James Hird we all know and love. And then to do everything BUT take responsibility - immediately hired a spin doctor, started using weasel words and telling half truths (and probably lies). If he'd put his hand up at the beginning and said "I was assured the supplements were all WADA compliant, I am devastated to learn that there is a very real possibility that some were not. I want to apologise to each and every one of my players for putting you in this situation and for not having systems in place to ensure this never happened. For this reason I am standing down as coach of the Essendon Football club, but will always be here for the lads." If he did that back then? People would have thought he's a legend of the game, he stuffed up but he's owned up to it and that he had great integrity. Now? Only the Essendon faithful hold him in any regard. I am truly saddened that he has reached the conclusion that his life is no longer worth living. Particularly when he has four little children who all love and adore him. It would seem in this dark time, he is still only able to think of himself. I feel for them. I struggle to feel anything for him.

 

[Big Gazoongas]

Seems like he not only risked money and reputation but also his marriage

James was a great footballer however he was prepared to watch other officials fall on their swords while he continued to take no responsibility and play the victim, its sad to hear that he has intentionally tried to poison himself but I tend to agree if James had taken responsibility early in the investigation the impact would have been different

You only have to look at the Cronulla Sharks situation

I had the impression from reading media reports that it was his wife that may have been the one pushing the legal angle. That has cost them bucket loads of cash and forced them to sell their property in Toorak (I think).
If James wasn't keen on the idea of legal action and being pushed by his wife that in itself would cause a huge rift given the financial outcome.

Very sad that the situation has spiraled to this. I hope for James sake he comes out of this.

Think of James at retirement and James now, what a shambles!

 

[GreyCrow]

Did you really just compare Charles Manson to James Hird?

Yes. Not in any slaughtered innocents, but the attitude we can take free shots at one person but not another

Manson was to the front of mind*

 

[1970crow]

There's also apparently some personal stuff (he and wife split) that may also have contributed. Bloody tragic situation, but the ones I feel for are the kids. He needs to focus more on them.

I'm not really sure how to take that comment. It's either a pretty poor attempt at solving the depression issues of a bloke who just attempted to kill himself or it's suggesting the bloke is being selfish. His view of himself in the eyes of those he loves the most could be the major contributor to the drastic action he just took. I'm really surprised that you've made such a flippant comment.

 

[GreyCrow]

I remember saying this back in the beginning. When he first stood up and said "As coach I take full responsibility" I thought thats amazing, that's the James Hird we all know and love. And then to do everything BUT take responsibility - immediately hired a spin doctor, started using weasel words and telling half truths (and probably lies). If he'd put his hand up at the beginning and said "I was assured the supplements were all WADA compliant, I am devastated to learn that there is a very real possibility that some were not. I want to apologise to each and every one of my players for putting you in this situation and for not having systems in place to ensure this never happened. For this reason I am standing down as coach of the Essendon Football club, but will always be here for the lads." If he did that back then? People would have thought he's a legend of the game, he stuffed up but he's owned up to it and that he had great integrity. Now? Only the Essendon faithful hold him in any regard. I am truly saddened that he has reached the conclusion that his life is no longer worth living. Particularly when he has four little children who all love and adore him. It would seem in this dark time, he is still only able to think of himself. I feel for them. I struggle to feel anything for him.

This x 100

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

He's also probably broke.

He does like lawyers...

 

[jenny61_99]

I'm not really sure how to take that comment. It's either a pretty poor attempt at solving the depression issues of a bloke who just attempted to kill himself or it's suggesting the bloke is being selfish. His view of himself in the eyes of those he loves the most could be the major contributor to the drastic action he just took. I'm really surprised that you've made such a flippant comment.

I'm not being flippant. TO me it is the ultimate act of selfishness. When you see the aftermath suicide brings to those left behind, there is no way anyone could believe they chose this path for the good of everyone else. The guilt felt by loved ones is immeasurable and everlasting. There is no respite for them, ever. James has four little children. Can you imagine the impact on them if he'd succeeded? Hird needs help. He has for a very long time. I hope now he can acknowledge that and work towards recovery.

 

[Elite Crow]

I'm not being flippant. TO me it is the ultimate act of selfishness. When you see the aftermath suicide brings to those left behind, there is no way anyone could believe they chose this path for the good of everyone else. The guilt felt by loved ones is immeasurable and everlasting. There is no respite for them, ever. James has four little children. Can you imagine the impact on them if he'd succeeded? Hird needs help. He has for a very long time. I hope now he can acknowledge that and work towards recovery.

To get to the position where he made the choice to try and commit suicide he obviously has gone past rational thought. He has to be suffering from major depression so logic goes out the window. He needs help big time and hopefully there are no physical consequences of his actions and mentally over time he can get better.

 

[Pdub]

I'm not being flippant. TO me it is the ultimate act of selfishness. When you see the aftermath suicide brings to those left behind, there is no way anyone could believe they chose this path for the good of everyone else. The guilt felt by loved ones is immeasurable and everlasting. There is no respite for them, ever. James has four little children. Can you imagine the impact on them if he'd succeeded? Hird needs help. He has for a very long time. I hope now he can acknowledge that and work towards recovery.

People with depression who are suicidal aren't being selfish, they genuinely believe their loved ones would be better off without them.

 

[PrideOf]

The Age is reporting it as an OD. Although who knows on what, or why.

Sad situation, but the line about no-one knows what he took is icing on the supplement cake.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

As much as I loathe Hird, I don't take any pleasure in hearing he tried to commit suicide. Life is bigger than footy.

 

[subaru]

The sad thing is that if he had just fallen on his own sword back in 2013 and admitted responsibility, it most probably would have all blown over now and he would have regained some credibility for manning up and taking one for the club.

He risked everything (money/reputation) to try and get out of it on a technicality and lost. He now needs to make peace with his actions and move on and find something new because he'll never be involved in football ever again.

It's the old "when you're in a hole, stop digging"
Pretty sure she egged him on with all her "legal experience".

Would have thought he made it through the worst of it by now.

 

[jenny61_99]

To get to the position where he made the choice to try and commit suicide he obviously has gone past rational thought. He has to be suffering from major depression so logic goes out the window. He needs help big time and hopefully there are no physical consequences of his actions and mentally over time he can get better.

Look, I see that point, but he has put himself in this position by only thinking of himself. THroughout all of this, his main concern was that of his reputation - not the players wellbeing and now, not of his children. He certainly needs help, and I hope now he can receive it. He has never really accepted responsibility - the only apologies he has issued have been qualified ones.

 

[subaru]

Charlie Manson goes to hospital people cheer and post messages hoping he dies painfully, St James goes to hospital and everybody starts eulogizing him. As great a player he was he has absolutely ruined one club and potentially ruined a lot of lives in the process. Yet people still defend him.

If that was Roo I would wipe him.

It's not sympathy I have for him, it's his kids.
But you are correct - and it's like when someone dies - just coz they're dead doesn't make them "good " people.

 

[GreyCrow]

Look, I see that point, but he has put himself in this position by only thinking of himself. THroughout all of this, his main concern was that of his reputation - not the players wellbeing and now, not of his children. He certainly needs help, and I hope now he can receive it. He has never really accepted responsibility - the only apologies he has issued have been qualified ones.

I support your position but there were other factors that got in the way of an apology. Mostly legal advice and mostly from Tania.

 

[ad victoriam]

One about the Essendon saga from the start is Hird copped a lot of the blame and yes he deserved some, But not one Essendon official, player or key persons stood up and took responsibility for their own actions, Everyone of them had to drag screaming into any form of punishment.
So Hird was not a stand out in that area.

 

[Elite Crow]

Look, I see that point, but he has put himself in this position by only thinking of himself. THroughout all of this, his main concern was that of his reputation - not the players wellbeing and now, not of his children. He certainly needs help, and I hope now he can receive it. He has never really accepted responsibility - the only apologies he has issued have been qualified ones.

How he got to this position is a different story to what he is now dealing with.

Sure he has been a w***er which led to this, but now he would be in such a ****ed up place, clear thought isn't possible.

 

[Elite Crow]

One about the Essendon saga from the start is Hird copped a lot of the blame and yes he deserved some, But not one Essendon official, player or key persons stood up and took responsibility for their own actions, Everyone of them had to drag screaming into any form of punishment.
So Hird was not a stand out in that area.

Didn't their CEO fall on his sword pretty quickly?

 

[GreyCrow]

Didn't their CEO fall on his sword pretty quickly?

Pretty well straight away is my recollection. David Evans

 

[arrowman]

Seems to me there's a bit of Lady Macbeth in all of this.

 

[GreyCrow]

Seems to me there's a bit of Lady Macbeth in all of this.

He wanted the dog outside?

 

[ad victoriam]

Didn't their CEO fall on his sword pretty quickly?

Ian Robson, Who interesting joined Melbourne Victory as CEO shortly after.
He and intresting Quote from him.
"I stand by what I said on the day I resigned - I accepted, if you like, full accountability for what took place on my watch. I resigned. I wasn't responsible for those actions."

He still refuses to publicly declare whether he read a letter from the club doctor outlining his concerns.

No that was someone forced to resign to save face and move onto an another job before his brand got tarnished.

 

[jenny61_99]

Pretty well straight away is my recollection. David Evans

Evans was the Chairman, not CEO, and fell on his sword because he and Dimwit had decided Hird had to step down. James disagreed and it became untenable for Evans to stay. That's when Little stepped in and chose to go down the litigious route. Ian Robson was the CEO. He was the first to accept full accountability for what happened under his watch and resigned.