2017 Trade and FA thread

[Nunez]

On reflection I wouldn't be totally against offering up Rich (highly unlikely, has a long contract) for trade, D.Beams, Rockliff, Robinson, Zorko and Christensen have all displayed great leadership qualities so we definitely need to keep them. From my perspective Rich does not provide that so much, he is not in the leadership group and IIRC has never been and never seems to be discussed re leadership.

Initially I thought the same, and if someone offered us a top 15 draft pick for him and were willing to take his contract I'd say yes. The likelihood is slim to none that this would happen and trying to shop off a contracted player would look really bad to the guys who want yo sign contracts so it is better we commit to getting the most out of him opposed to anything else. At his worst he is still a senior player who can take hits (contrary to what people said after the buddy incident) for the younger players. At his best he can help us win games.

 

[Dizzle]

Luke Hodge or Shaun Burgoyne would be good if they are interested in a coaching career post footy in a Sam Mitchell type deal. ie. 1 year playing coach (playing roughly 15-18 games depending how the body is) followed by a 2 year assistant coaching gig. The connection with Fagan should be an advantage.

Other than that I would be going to the draft unless we can get a B+ to elite player in the 21-24 age bracket eg. Jacob Hopper.

Do not want any more rejects that other clubs simply don't want eg. Tom Bell.[/QUOTE]

eg. Mitch Robinson

 

[briztoon]

On reflection I wouldn't be totally against offering up Rich (highly unlikely, has a long contract) for trade, D.Beams, Rockliff, Robinson, Zorko and Christensen have all displayed great leadership qualities so we definitely need to keep them. From my perspective Rich does not provide that so much, he is not in the leadership group and IIRC has never been and never seems to be discussed re leadership.

Pretty much what I believe. Apart from his long left footed kicks, I find Rich a very underwhelming player, and believe he has past his peak already.

 

[BuntonRules]

I find this Rich negativity hard to handle right now. He blew a couple of kicks yesterday being half a second slow to dispose of the pill n got under pressure. But in a season where we are being monstered he takes the hits every week, and gets up and goes again, whilst contributing - leading our youngsters by example and taking a lot of the heat. The current injuries to our senior players shows how berefit of mature options we are.

Dan has been, and will always be, a loyal clubman. Just because he has not risen to the heights dreamt of by onlookers do not under estimate his contribution to our club, and how valuable his services will be in the future.

 

[carnthemlions]

Rich and Hanley were the two I mentioned at the beginning of last year as the two I'd move on. But as a couple of people have pointed out, Rich's contract is prohibitive and makes it unlikely we'll be able to move him on. I do not know how much Rich is on, but he's signed through to 2020.

Yes, we know, you'd trade everyone for MORE DRAFT PICKS.
Personally I don't think becoming Melbourne of a few years ago is a particularly good plan. It's a novel idea, I know.

 

[Elixuh]

Need to work on replacing guys like Bewick, Harwood and Beams before we look at trading out one of our most experienced players. I would look at trading him for a pick in the top 10 but not for what we would likely get if we tried to trade him at the end of the year. You have to look at Rich vs the player you will get with a pick in the 20s/30s. I'd take Rich every day. He makes mistakes and doesn't always play to the levels I would like him to but he isn't a terrible player by any means.

I look at guys like Bell (70+ games) and Bewick (almost 100) who are being outperformed by guys who have played a handful of a games. Need to replace them before you look at replacing a bloke who is usually at worst a contributor.

Go to the draft and bring in young talented players where possible via trades. We have too many players who wouldn't get a gig in the best 22 anywhere and not enough high end talent.

 

[M Malice]

I look on Mitch as a good player who had behavioural issues. Beams and Christensen wanted to come up here for other reasons. Bell wanted to come home too but I don't think the blues put up too much of a fight to keep him.

 

[M Malice]

I'm pretty certain he's been in the leadership group.

If so he didn't do or impress enough to stay in there.

 

[spotthedog1]

I think we look at trading the likes of Rich/Rockliff (bar issues of last year) etc as ways of fixing our current mediocrity. Fact is, you need good, reliable players to help usher along the young talent we have and will have. If we're missing them we end up Melbourne 2.0 from years back.

For mine, we look at keeping the core of:

Beams
Rockliff
Rich
Robinson
Zorko

The rest of the older players bar Martin (who I didn't include given his age. Would trade if a good offer came in) are tradeable. We need to keep drafting first round guns and have the above mentioned usher the youth into AFL so when they're the 30 year olds the guys like Hipwood, Andrews, Keays, McCLuggage, Berry, Taylor etc etc are in their prime or about to enter their prime. Under them will be other first round drafties.

The light is well and truly at the end of the tunnel here. I feel quite confident in that.

I can see what you mean, and in part - I agree.
PRO - If you don't have a bunch of senior guys around, the junior guys get lost and don't learn, grow, etc. So it is essential that you have senior players around.
CON - The problem is, these guys are good. These guys have trade value. These guys will not be part of our team when we are ready for finals. We are also very shallow when it comes to top end talent. We are so far behind the competition, that it isn't going to be fixed in the senior players' time at the club. So by that measure, the logical choice is to trade them and get what we can.

So there we have two competing viewpoints. We need senior players with skill and leadership, but we also need high end draft picks and skilled players who will be at the club when we're pushing for finals in 5 years time.

My thought at the moment is that I am in favour of trading out most of those guys for high draft picks, but only if we can lure in retirees and senior players looking for coaching experience ala GWS in their early years. I'm fine with chucking big coin at them and them using us as a retirement bonus, because we need to use them for their leadership and on-field instructional ability. In the meanwhile, if Rocky goes for a top 10 pick, and we throw a 4th round pick at a 32 year old with leadership, I think we come out ahead long term.

Of course, the downside of this is, the club culture could potentially take a big beating, and we can't afford that. For starters, it pisses off supporters to no end. Secondly, if we instigate and trade out our top players, particularly one-club players, it's a great way to tell the rest of our players that they are nothing but commodities, and that this club doesn't value loyalty. Exodus starts. If we talk to Rocky and Zorko, and explain the situation, and try to do this as a "mutual benefit" decision, it tells the players that Rocky and Zorko didn't see us being competitive in the near future. Exodus starts. Is there any way to do this in a way that doesn't destroy club culture? I don't know.

But if we don't do something drastic, I have a sneaky suspicion that we will hit finals right around the time Rocky, Zorko et al are looking at retirement, and then we head straight down the bottom and start again.

So, to conclude, at the end of the day, I am:
- in favour of keeping our top players
- in favour of trading out our top players for high draft picks, but only if we get retirees in for guidance.
- against trading out our top players
- in favour of doing something drastic like trading out our top players.

 

[jackess]

If so he didn't do or impress enough to stay in there.

Or Bundy, Beams and Stef came to the club and stepped up.

 

[spotthedog1]

For anyone who questions just how far behind the pack we are when it comes to top-end talent:
- Gold Coast Suns drafted as many top 10 picks in 2016 as we have on our entire list.

 

[Nunez]

For anyone who questions just how far behind the pack we are when it comes to top-end talent:
- Gold Coast Suns drafted as many top 10 picks in 2016 as we have on our entire list.

Poor example tbh. The Expansion clubs were filled with first round talent and the reason the suns got their picks last year was trading out other high end talent.

We're coming from behind but have drafted some great first round/early 2nd round talent. That can't be denied. It's not like we have no talent on our list..

 

[spotthedog1]

Poor example tbh. The Expansion clubs were filled with first round talent and the reason the suns got their picks last year was trading out other high end talent.

We're coming from behind but have drafted some great first round/early 2nd round talent. That can't be denied. It's not like we have no talent on our list..

I think it's the perfect example to be honest. We are going on about "in the future, we'll be amazing"... "we have top picks, they're just young"... "when all the other teams are on the way down, we'll be on the way up". I don't think that's the case. Even when Gold Coast's initial startup picks all retire in 2021/22ish, we'll have our draftees from 2009-2016 (4 top 10 picks), and they'll have that many from 2016 alone. So when McCluggage is hitting his straps, so will Ainsworth, Brodie, Scrimshaw, and Bowes.

We have young talent that we've picked up outside that range, but so do Gold Coast. So do Carlton. So do GWS. So do Sydney. So do Freo. So do St Kilda. So do the Bulldogs. In terms of young talent, sadly I don't think we're even close to the top.

At this stage, I genuinely think that if we continue the way we are going at the moment, we'll peak at about 6th on the ladder, and head down for another rebuild. I don't know what the solution is, but I'm in favour of doing something drastic to try to increase our talent base. I will support the club through this long, drawn out period at the bottom of the ladder. Unfortunately, I just don't have a lot of hope about it at present. Andrews and Hipwood are currently my biggest source of hope. If we aim to go all-in to draft in a big bunch of top-tier midfielders in the next 3 years (about 3 years behind our key posts), that to me is our best option. Hope that they all develop well, and turn into A graders at the exact same time.

 

[briztoon]

Yes, we know, you'd trade everyone for MORE DRAFT PICKS.
Personally I don't think becoming Melbourne of a few years ago is a particularly good plan. It's a novel idea, I know.

Yeah, no.

Rich is it. But as others have mentioned, his contract makes him impossible to trade.

Wouldn't trade anyone else unless they asked to be traded.

Personally I hope no one else asks to be traded.

 

[Elixuh]

Yeah, no.

Rich is it. But as others have mentioned, his contract makes him impossible to trade.

Wouldn't trade anyone else unless they asked to be traded.

Personally I hope no one else asks to be traded.

No it doesn't. We could trade Rich and take on part of his contract, couldn't we? IMO it comes down to Rich vs what you would get in return for him.

 

[Nunez]

While we have 4 top 10 picks, we also have:

Hipwood
Andrews
Keays
Berry
Cox
Witherden

Yes, they're not top 10, but as we've seen with Hipwood, Berry and Andrews in particular it doesn't always matter.

Next year we'll get 1-2 top 10 picks along with another 1st round draft pick in Ballenden.

Around 2020 we'll have one of the best (if not the best) spines in the AFL and if we draft/trade in gun mids to help McCluggage, Taylor, Keays, Cox, Matho, Bundy (28 by then?) Berry then we'll have a very imposing list.

Our young list is healthier than people give it credit - it'll just take time and more drafting.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Reported as a 5year/$3 million deal signed til 2021.

well... guess we are stuck with him

 

[jackess]

For anyone who questions just how far behind the pack we are when it comes to top-end talent:
- Gold Coast Suns drafted as many top 10 picks in 2016 as we have on our entire list.

They also lost a couple to get those picks

 

[spotthedog1]

They also lost a couple to get those picks

Very aware of this. You can't pick up 3 top 10 picks without giving up something. Completely irrelevant to my point though, which was looking at how other teams are stocked for young talent that will be maturing when we're supposedly aiming for finals. In 2021/22 and for the years following, Gold Coast will have 4 top 10 picks hitting their straps. Sure, they won't have O'meara or Prestia. But around 2021/22 is also when Rocky and Zorko will be early 30s and looking at retirement options.

I'm not trying to be depressive and woe-is-me. I'm saying that in my opinion, our current list make up lacks a sufficient talent base and is poorly timed to challenge for anything. This is part of a wider discussion about trading out our guns, and whether it's best for them or the club. Personally, I see pros and cons to both, but I think the club has to do something drastic, or else any progress we make will be hampered by our current stars retiring exactly when we're supposedly going to be a finals contender.

 

[Milux]

I think it's the perfect example to be honest. We are going on about "in the future, we'll be amazing"... "we have top picks, they're just young"... "when all the other teams are on the way down, we'll be on the way up". I don't think that's the case. Even when Gold Coast's initial startup picks all retire in 2021/22ish, we'll have our draftees from 2009-2016 (4 top 10 picks), and they'll have that many from 2016 alone. So when McCluggage is hitting his straps, so will Ainsworth, Brodie, Scrimshaw, and Bowes.

We have young talent that we've picked up outside that range, but so do Gold Coast. So do Carlton. So do GWS. So do Sydney. So do Freo. So do St Kilda. So do the Bulldogs. In terms of young talent, sadly I don't think we're even close to the top.

At this stage, I genuinely think that if we continue the way we are going at the moment, we'll peak at about 6th on the ladder, and head down for another rebuild. I don't know what the solution is, but I'm in favour of doing something drastic to try to increase our talent base. I will support the club through this long, drawn out period at the bottom of the ladder. Unfortunately, I just don't have a lot of hope about it at present. Andrews and Hipwood are currently my biggest source of hope. If we aim to go all-in to draft in a big bunch of top-tier midfielders in the next 3 years (about 3 years behind our key posts), that to me is our best option. Hope that they all develop well, and turn into A graders at the exact same time.

Talk about buzzkill. (Although i agree).

 

[Elixuh]

Very aware of this. You can't pick up 3 top 10 picks without giving up something. Completely irrelevant to my point though, which was looking at how other teams are stocked for young talent that will be maturing when we're supposedly aiming for finals. In 2021/22 and for the years following, Gold Coast will have 4 top 10 picks hitting their straps. Sure, they won't have O'meara or Prestia. But around 2021/22 is also when Rocky and Zorko will be early 30s and looking at retirement options.

I'm not trying to be depressive and woe-is-me. I'm saying that in my opinion, our current list make up lacks a sufficient talent base and is poorly timed to challenge for anything. This is part of a wider discussion about trading out our guns, and whether it's best for them or the club. Personally, I see pros and cons to both, but I think the club has to do something drastic, or else any progress we make will be hampered by our current stars retiring exactly when we're supposedly going to be a finals contender.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking B1? PP mainboard thread time?

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Would Steven May be gettable ?

 

[lioninthesand]

While we have 4 top 10 picks, we also have:

Hipwood
Andrews
Keays
Berry
Cox
Witherden

Yes, they're not top 10, but as we've seen with Hipwood, Berry and Andrews in particular it doesn't always matter.

Next year we'll get 1-2 top 10 picks along with another 1st round draft pick in Ballenden.

Around 2020 we'll have one of the best (if not the best) spines in the AFL and if we draft/trade in gun mids to help McCluggage, Taylor, Keays, Cox, Matho, Bundy (28 by then?) Berry then we'll have a very imposing list.

Our young list is healthier than people give it credit - it'll just take time and more drafting.

Agree totally, unless our inability to devalop players continues to be an issue. And we just continue to spudafy players year after year.

 

[dlanod]

Are you thinking what I'm thinking B1? PP mainboard thread time?

I look forward to hearing about how our admin has failed in unspecifiable ways.

 

[spotthedog1]

Are you thinking what I'm thinking B1? PP mainboard thread time?

I look forward to hearing about how our admin has failed in unspecifiable ways.

Absolutely. To both of the above. Was lots of fun last year - I had a good grin at Hawks, Blues and Dees fans complaining about the possibility of us getting one... I'm up for some more fun