2017 Trade and FA thread

[carnthemlions]

Hopper not very impressive tonight but a fairly big unit

He had a big first game, but has he really done much since? Only one contested possession tonight

 

[Tainey]

He had a big first game, but has he really done much since? Only one contested possession tonight

Need to remember it's just his 2nd year, and it would be hard to standout in a team full of talent. He's also been injured, so hasn't had much continuity with his footy. As Irish mentioned, Josh Kelly just glides over the park and oozes class. Whichever team signs him up will be licking their lips.

 

[SizeMatters]

He had a big first game, but has he really done much since? Only one contested possession tonight

Only had 60% game time I think but what worried me the most is that his CP count was 1 yet his DE was 43%. I think his time injured hasn't helped either. Can accumulate though which is something we lack for up and coming inside mids ATM. I think a if a club can grab him for a pick outside the top 10 it will be a bargain.

 

[Codeforgolions]

Or we could put them onto the rookie list like we did Paine.

Pointless. I would ,rather than waisting developement on players that have had their time and opportunities and have not taken them , give these opportunities to new blood and see if they are willing to grasp the chance to play at the elite level with both hands. So turnover is the right thing to do,until such time, we get players that can stand up when needed in the 1st 22. Just not make up numbers n a list.

 

[jackess]

Pointless. I would ,rather than waisting developement on players that have had their time and opportunities and have not taken them , give these opportunities to new blood and see if they are willing to grasp the chance to play at the elite level with both hands. So turnover is the right thing to do,until such time, we get players that can stand up when needed in the 1st 22. Just not make up numbers n a list.

Except they have a contract. So we can't delist them.

 

[Codeforgolions]

Except they have a contract. So we can't delist them.

Pay them out or Trade for whatever we can get. Offer to pay part of their salary. The club is wasting it's time otherwise. As a club let's look forwards. We must be prepared to make tough decisions to advance the club.

 

[jackess]

Pay them out or Trade for whatever we can get. Offer to pay part of their salary. The club is wasting it's time otherwise. As a club let's look forwards. We must be prepared to make tough decisions to advance the club.

They have to agree with it.

 

[Codeforgolions]

They have to agree with it.

Sometimes a player must be smart enough to see the writing on the wall. If they want to continue playing afl and a trade can be done take it or club simply says your dreams end here. Ultimatum, cruel, AFL is a tough business.i don' t want a so called list clogger , denying an opportunity to someone who may just offer us something more. My question is a smiple one , do you want the club to be successful , in which case you are prepared to accept a certain degree of pain or a club that just meanders along achieving nothing other than just making up a 16 team competition.

 

[a mayes ing]

Sometimes a player must be smart enough to see the writing on the wall. If they want to continue playing afl and a trade can be done take it or club simply says your dreams end here. Ultimatum, cruel, AFL is a tough business.i don' t want a so called list clogger , denying an opportunity to someone who may just offer us something more. My question is a smiple one , do you want the club to be successful , in which case you are prepared to accept a certain degree of pain or a club that just meanders along achieving nothing other than just making up a 16 team competition.

Once again, it is not up to the club. They have to agree with it and l very much doubt they would. Why would they, they get to play football with their mates. I think it is a bit silly and unrealistic to pay out contracts. What if there are mass injuries next season like previous seasons. What if they have a massive turn of form? We can't just have skinny 18 year old teenagers in the reserves, they would get pumped. The seniors would have no reason to push themselves because there is noone putting pressure on them from the reserves. Also, l reckon the culture would go down the bin as well, some of these blokes are well liked around the club and the players on contract wouldn't ever feel comfortable if the club tries to pay out contracts

 

[Keays2myBeamas]

Agree with A Mayes ing. But think we should re-rookie one or two. I reckon we could probably re-rookie a Bewick or Frost without the whole culture of the club hitting the fan.. Bewick is a great leader in the twos but doesn't offer anything in the ones.

Another question. Would you rather have 26 year old Beams/Harwood on the list next year, or 18 year old pick 70+ from a shallow draft and see the list get even younger?

Claye Beams and Ryan Harwood deserve one more year, for mine. They'll keep the winning culture in the reserves with their experience and can play a role in the ones. And we only need three in the draft - 2 mids before Ballenden.

Am I being too kind?

 

[Codeforgolions]

Once again, it is not up to the club. They have to agree with it and l very much doubt they would. Why would they, they get to play football with their mates. I think it is a bit silly and unrealistic to pay out contracts. What if there are mass injuries next season like previous seasons. What if they have a massive turn of form? We can't just have skinny 18 year old teenagers in the reserves, they would get pumped. The seniors would have no reason to push themselves because there is noone putting pressure on them from the reserves. Also, l reckon the culture would go down the bin as well, some of these blokes are well liked around the club and the players on contract wouldn't ever feel comfortable if the club tries to pay out contracts

What if they have a massive turn of form? Not into hypotheticals. But If they did perform at another club, Question then becomes why did they not show it sooner ,were they infact lazy, justed accepted being at a bottom club struggling financially,that they could get away With mediocrity becuase They see the club as weak. If a player has been on the list for sometime and has not progress,why would you persist? We are not a charity. In Terms of
"We can't just have skinny 18 year old teenagers in the reserves." I am not suggesting purely 18 year olds , i would be keen to explore mature age recuits , in the leagues across Australia , who have a strong desire to succeed.
In terms of club culture , winning i feel is a big part of it.Who wants to see a club were players go through the motions becuase they feel safe their is no one to replace them.i would rather replace these list cloggers with mature age or 18 year old guys , who would relish the chance to live their dreams and play AFL and bust their guts to succeed.that improves a clubs culture.get players who want to be there for the right reasons and would do anything to see this club succeed.That's the difference.

 

[Ruse]

LOL at all the ppl doing mental gymnastics trying to protect list cloggers. If they're not good enough, then ship them out.

 

[Ruse]

Another question. Would you rather have 26 year old Beams/Harwood on the list next year, or 18 year old pick 70+ from a shallow draft and see the list get even younger?

I would rather an 18 yr old pick 70+ from a shallow draft.

 

[Keays2myBeamas]

LOL at all the ppl doing mental gymnastics trying to protect list cloggers. If they're not good enough, then ship them out.

That's definitely a possible way to go. Your way may well be the path they take. But I think a fair and reasonable amount of time will be given to players to prove their worth, especially high draft picks, and the club will be weary of making the list too young at the expense of depth.

 

[dlanod]

They have to agree with it.

They don't have to agree with getting paid out. The club can do that unilaterally as the player still receives their full contract value.

 

[L Dizz]

The major issue with paying someone out is that if you want to free up a list spot for next year, the remainder of their contract has to be included in this year's salary cap. I'm aware none of the names thrown up would be on a big wage, but none of us know how our salary cap is being managed. If we've got a number of contracts front ended to save space for future re-signings, paying out contracts (particularly Frost who has 2 years left) may not be possible or may effect our ability to "bank" salary cap to pay in excess of 100% in the future.

 

[Dylan12]

Instead of paying someone out i.e. Frost, he can be downgraded to the rookie list despite being contracted, which the club did with Jackson Paine in his final year of his contract.

 

[a mayes ing]

What if they have a massive turn of form? Not into hypotheticals. But If they did perform at another club, Question then becomes why did they not show it sooner ,were they infact lazy, justed accepted being at a bottom club struggling financially,that they could get away With mediocrity becuase They see the club as weak. If a player has been on the list for sometime and has not progress,why would you persist? We are not a charity. In Terms of
"We can't just have skinny 18 year old teenagers in the reserves." I am not suggesting purely 18 year olds , i would be keen to explore mature age recuits , in the leagues across Australia , who have a strong desire to succeed.
In terms of club culture , winning i feel is a big part of it.Who wants to see a club were players go through the motions becuase they feel safe their is no one to replace them.i would rather replace these list cloggers with mature age or 18 year old guys , who would relish the chance to live their dreams and play AFL and bust their guts to succeed.that improves a clubs culture.get players who want to be there for the right reasons and would do anything to see this club succeed.That's the difference.

If you are not into hypotheticals then this whole conversation is pointless because l am 90% sure that paying someone out is not going to happen under the FagNob dept. Yes winning is a big part of culture but also trust within this group. There won't be any trust if we start disregarding contracts and paying them out. I don't think Bell, Frost will amount to anything but they are under contract and deserve to finish it out. We can still get mature age recruits with the delistees we will have this year.
Out: Freeman, Beams, Clayton, Jansen.
That is already 4 there, l would think we need only one more.

 

[Dalions]

If you are not into hypotheticals then this whole conversation is pointless because l am 90% sure that paying someone out is not going to happen under the FagNob dept. Yes winning is a big part of culture but also trust within this group. There won't be any trust if we start disregarding contracts and paying them out. I don't think Bell, Frost will amount to anything but they are under contract and deserve to finish it out. We can still get mature age recruits with the delistees we will have this year.
Out: Freeman, Beams, Clayton, Jansen.
That is already 4 there, l would think we need only one more.

There is every chance Close may request a trade with Collingwood sniffing. So that would make 5.
But if not the only other one i can see it being would be Harwood. But i wouldn't mind him getting another year.

 

[LongLion]

There is every chance Close may request a trade with Collingwood sniffing. So that would make 5.
But if not the only other one i can see it being would be Harwood. But i wouldn't mind him getting another year.

you wouldn't begrudge Closey seeking a trade but...... to Collingwood no no no please.

 

[Lazza16]

I was reading on another non lion board that Close has advances from 3 vic clubs and he has indicated some how Magpies are his club of choice.....fair enough with their lack of kpp and friendship with Aish and Crisp........but I just hope he doesn't do a "Nathan Buckley" and throw away 3 premierships. I have a feeling that one day it is all going to click for Closey...like it has for Mayes n Robbo so I hope he still here. I also believe the same in Josh Clayton...

 

[DanT7]

Delist/trade/move:
Freeman
Clayton
Jansen
Rockliff
(R) Hinge
(R) William
(R) Grewar
If we can:
Bell
Paparone
Frost
Dawson
Lyons

Keep:
CBeams
Harwood
Close
(R) CHanley
(R) Eagles
(R) Barrett
(R) Hammelman

Get:
- Cameron
- Mature leader type looking to move into coaching
- Midfield draft talent
- Speedy running half back
- Maybe Hartung

 

[Lazza16]

Delist/trade/move:
Freeman
Clayton
Jansen
Rockliff
(R) Hinge
(R) William
(R) Grewar
If we can:
Bell
Paparone
Frost
Dawson
Lyons

Keep:
CBeams
Harwood
Close
(R) CHanley
(R) Eagles
(R) Barrett
(R) Hammelman

Get:
- Cameron
- Mature leader type looking to move into coaching
- Midfield draft talent
- Speedy running half back
- Maybe Hartung

Omgggggggggggggg no hartung ty...........I will nearly brought up my dinner

 

[Dalions]

I was reading on another non lion board that Cloke has advances from 3 vic clubs and he has indicated some how Magpies are his club of choice.....fair enough with their lack of kpp and friendship with Aish and Crisp........but I just hope he doesn't do a "Nathan Buckley" and throw away 3 premierships. I have a feeling that one day it is all going to click for Closey...like it has for Mayes n Robbo so I hope he still here. I also believe the same in Josh Clayton...

Hasnt Cloke only just left Collingwood

 

[Lazza16]

Hasnt Cloke only just left Collingwood

ok word predictor strikes again......Close