2017 Trade and FA thread

[Pancho Gonzales]

On the face of it, it looks like GC did even worse than us. Dew will have his job cut out for him - potentially more kids to deal with than McKenna in the beginning!

 

[13Beast]

Especially when the one player we had was damaged goods, he is no longer a number 2 pick. People cannot get their heads around this, his market value has plummeted.

I am sure his market value would have been just perfectly fine had he been playing for <insert Victorian/WA/SA club name here>. I do not think any other club, bar GC or GWS, would have made that trade at any stage, not here, nor in any alternate universe.

 

[blackers]

I also thought we paid overs for Cameron and got unders for Schache, but in the washup I don't think it will make too much difference.

After the FA compo for Rocky but before the trades, we had picks 1, 12, 18, 20, 43, 75 and 93. Now we have 1, 15, 18, 40, 44, 52 and 93.

So assuming not much difference in quality between picks 12 and 15, what we've really done is give up pick 20 & Schache for picks 40, 52, Cameron & Hodge. Still overs I think but not a complete disaster.

Whether it ends up making a difference will depend on where Ballenden's name is called.

Best case scenario: GC call him at pick 19, we look like geniuses because pick 20 would've gone to match, and instead we can match with 40 & 44. So in that case, we've lost nothing because we wouldn't have used 20 anyway.

It's also worth noting that if Ballenden gets called after pick 20, with our previous picks we would have got a pick at 20 but then would have had to go into deficit to match the Ballenden bid. If he went in the low 20s, it's possible we would have gone far enough into deficit to bump down our first pick in 2018. As it is now, we can match any bid for Ballenden and keep at least one, possibly two third round picks.

Also I like the fact we didn't trade any of our 2018 picks.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

I'm just happy we have Witherden still.

 

[lioninthesand]

I am sure his market value would have been just perfectly fine had he been playing for <insert Victorian/WA/SA club name here>. I do not think any other club, bar GC or GWS, would have made that trade at any stage, not here, nor in any alternate universe.

If he was on a Vic team and had missed chunks of the season, struggled mentally with the rigors, re-signed and then decided to leave again, played soft underwhelming football, struggled at the lower level, not assimilated into the club culture, blown up and fatigued easily, left prior to a GF with no desire to compete, scared away every suitor after meeting with them in a trade period where talls are being undervalued and their is no team crying out for a key forward.. all the while being DESPERATE TO LEAVE SAID CLUB AND CLEARLY UNHAPPY... then that Vic club would have got about the same result.

 

[lioninthesand]

I'm just happy we have Witherden still.

brace yourself, I got a decent feeling he will be asking to be traded to Geelong next year.

 

[BRAB]

I'm just happy we have Witherden still.

For now. Will be traded next year for pick 85 going by Noble's track record.

 

[lioninthesand]

I've had a think about it, and i'm not quite so livid anymore.

Rockliffe and Schache for Cameron.

No doubt, today was a huge step back for the club. It's not a death knell though. Realistically, for a few years now, we get good draft picks, and then we lose half of what we get during the trade period. Obviously the culmination was the GH5, where we lost a complete age demographic of players, and set ourselves back about 3 years. Most years though, it's 2 steps forward (draft), 1 step back (trade).

This isn't quite as bad as the GH5 though. We lost Rocky, who was never going to be part of our next finals campaign anyway. Pretend that he retired and move on. Then we lost Schache for Cameron (plus some pick swaps against us). That's a big hit. In my mind, we're missing top-end draft talent. Cameron should turn into a solid B grader, but really, the hit is that we lost Schache, a potential A grader.

I guess what I think in the end is that, at least this time, we don't have to go back for another rebuild. We lost a pick 2, basically for nothing... Effectively that just means that rather than a draft gain and trade loss netting a small gain, we end up with a net zero. End result being that this pushes our development back another year. I was hoping we'd aiming for finals 2019-2020, now I think it's 2020-2021.

The upside of mature players is that you get immediate results though, plus with someone like Hodge, better development along the way. The downside is that by picking up mature players like Hodge and Cameron, who'll both be regular starters, they'll actually improve our short term performance a bit. So instead of getting a couple of pick 1s while we wait, plus possibly a priority pick, we'll have a couple of pick 3-4s while we wait, and no priority pick. This will probably lower our ceiling even when we do get there. Lower likelihood of ultimate success before we head back down the bottom and do it all again.

Pretty disappointed in the club today. Was hoping we were past these sort of things.

you went from sort of content... back to angry whilst typing this post.

 

[lioninthesand]

I'm struggling to deal with this crap year on year. When Josh re-signed I really thought it was a turning point.

When Josh signed I was totally perplexed because everyone knew he wanted to leave, then i waited to hear he wanted to leave again.. which slowly unfolded from the moment he signed. He was one mismanaged, confused young man.

Had we agreed to trade him the first time, and said 'if you really want to help us, the best thing you could do was come out and run through brick walls for us for the last 12 rounds' to get his trade value up - we would be in a very different position right now.

 

[spotthedog1]

you went from sort of content... back to angry whilst typing this post.

Lol. Always look on the bright side hey? We may have come last, but at least we got screwed during trade period!

 

[Hanley]

A useful thought experiment might be to just imagine how you would feel if we drafted Hipwood at 2 in 2015 and Schache at 15, and that everything else played out the same way as it has since then. I think a few might not be so quick to decry the state of our list in that situation even though as it actually stands our list would be identical to how it is now. The only difference is the narrative which I imagine would be that we nailed pick 2 with big Eric and then got great value 2 years later for an underwhelming Josh (although best luck to the kid).

 

[luthor]

you went from sort of content... back to angry whilst typing this post.

Well that's how I feel too.

Conflicted.

Part of me wants to blow up big time and start throwing things. On the other hand, as spotthedog1 has alluded to, when you calmly analyse things, its not as bad as it "feels"

 

[spotthedog1]

Well, no, I reckon the deals are just as bad as initially thought. But at least this time it'll only set us back another year, rather than meaning we have to do a complete new rebuild like after the GH5.

 

[captainrich]

A useful thought experiment might be to just imagine how you would feel if we drafted Hipwood at 2 in 2015 and Schache at 15, and that everything else played out the same way as it has since then. I think a few might not be so quick to decry the state of our list in that situation even though as it actually stands our list would be identical to how it is now. The only difference is the narrative which I imagine would be that we nailed pick 2 with big Eric and then got great value 2 years later for an underwhelming Josh (although best luck to the kid).

instead though we could have drafted Parish or Oliver on our list which is an elite midfielder and gotten Hipwood as a bargain which the acamedy system is supposed to be

 

[scoman]

I am too scared/ embarrassed to leave the Lions board.

 

[braddsey]

instead though we could have drafted Parish or Oliver on our list which is an elite midfielder and gotten Hipwood as a bargain which the acamedy system is supposed to be

Coulda woulda shoulda... we didn't so move on.

 

[lioninthesand]

Coulda woulda shoulda... we didn't so move on.

Oliver is an entitled little prick, would have sort a trade home for sure. Parish is good.

 

[Dalions]

When Josh signed I was totally perplexed because everyone knew he wanted to leave, then i waited to hear he wanted to leave again.. which slowly unfolded from the moment he signed. He was one mismanaged, confused young man.

Had we agreed to trade him the first time, and said 'if you really want to help us, the best thing you could do was come out and run through brick walls for us for the last 12 rounds' to get his trade value up - we would be in a very different position right now.

We May have been better off if Schache comeback mid season and didnt sign, yet told the club that he wanted to be traded at the end of the year.
He more than likely would have played the rest of the year in the 2's as Fagan hinted at the time.
With all that has happened since he re-signed is probably the main reason why he has devalued so much. If he played the year out in the 2's And played half decent we may have got a bit more for him.

 

[blackpowerlappin]

Thank god we re signed Schache.

 

[AB09]

Considering Melbourne got pick 31 for Jack Watts and the Dogs got pick 25 and 30 for Stringer, I don't think we did too bad getting 25 and 40 for Schache.

What people on this board think / hope he was worth and what he was actually worth are very different.

 

[blackpowerlappin]

Considering Melbourne got pick 31 for Jack Watts and the Dogs got pick 25 and 30 for Stringer, I don't think we did too bad getting 25 and 40 for Schache.

What people on this board think / hope he was worth and what he was actually worth are very different.

Looks like that was the crux of it

 

[BulldogMurray]

Considering Melbourne got pick 31 for Jack Watts and the Dogs got pick 25 and 30 for Stringer, I don't think we did too bad getting 25 and 40 for Schache.

What people on this board think / hope he was worth and what he was actually worth are very different.

I agree with you. Stringer has more to offer than Josh.

 

[Cockliff38]

Noble said on SEN we might have a look at a delisted free agent

 

[Billy Puller]

 

[AB09]

If you use the points to convert everything to a single pick Watts got traded for pick 31, Stringer got traded for just shy of pick 10 and Schache was traded for midway between pick 13/14.

And Matthew Kennedy went to Carlton for pick 28 with most on this board in raptures over how good he is.

The Schache trade is nowhere near as bad as what most people are portraying.

I'd be more pissed off if I were a Melbourne fan as to justifying how Watts (a previous no 1 draft pick) got traded for so much less than Schache (a previous no 2 draft pick).