List Mgmt. 2018 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Bokonon_]

Dylan is a solid citizen and does have some weapons - his pace and kicking are sublime. The obvious downside is size, but his decision making is what really cost him during his time with us. Top bloke though, and if he gets on top of that decision making he's well worth a spot.

Can't say I know a lot about him. Have to trust the club saw a reason. Generally don't think one club delisting a player means they're useless to everyone.
Clubs have different needs and all have to have cheap players to make the cap manageable.

 

[fridgeman]

I would be happy if he pulls a himmelberg but picking up Keefe as an extreme emergency and the development of Flynn has probably pushed a project ruck out of the list requirements

I think it will depend on how Simpson and Keefe go this year and which of the 4 remain on the list for 2019

 

[Aussie18]

Imho the Giants academy have failed both Powell and Richards.
Both been in the National Academy both represented in an Aussie jumper.
How is it we pass on two rookie spots when Swans, Suns and Lions have all backed their academy systems and players in.
Caruso needs to get his head out of a computer and actually see how players use the footy this draft ill be his undoing.
Before people comment Richards smashed CCJ against SA in tap outs. Powells stats in Nationals were exactly the same as Shipley with more goals inside 50s and rebound 50s and is more efficient disposal playing less game time. Caruso needs to study his stats better.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Imho the Giants academy have failed both Powell and Richards.
Both been in the National Academy both represented in an Aussie jumper.
How is it we pass on two rookie spots when Swans, Suns and Lions have all backed their academy systems and players in.
Caruso needs to get his head out of a computer and actually see how players use the footy this drat will be his undoing.
Before people comment Richards smashed CCJ against SA in tap outs. Powells stats in Nationals were exactly the same as Shipley with more goals inside 50s and rebound 50s and is more efficient disposal playing less game time. Caruso needs to study his stats better.

We have the list space on the rookie list to have taken them both along with his weird Buckley selection.

I am also very upset about the passing on Powell and richards

 

[Giant Pete]

I think people are missing the point. We were one of the poorest teams at applying forward 50 pressure this year. One of the main objectives in the trade period would have been to get a few players who have this as their strength. They need to be agile, quick and not necessarily great decision makers... eg they won’t be making decisions or kicks coming out of D50.
We went and got 3 players who fit this bill.
I like it. Our club is recruiting for needs which is what good list management is about.

 

[Aussie18]

I think people are missing the point. We were one of the poorest teams at applying forward 50 pressure this year. One of the main objectives in the trade period would have been to get a few players who have this as their strength. They need to be agile, quick and not necessarily great decision makers... eg they won’t be making decisions or kicks coming out of D50.
We went and got 3 players who fit this bill.
I like it. Our club is recruiting for needs which is what good list management is about.

There were still spots available, what hope does this give future academy kids absolute disgrace

 

[Giant Strides]

I think in regards list size, we were always going to stick to 44. I am disappointed with going Buckley x 2 and missing out on academy kids, as I think it sends a poor message to future kids - and I guess I have doubts on whether the guys we picked up are indeed better in broad terms. However, looking at the theme in the selections - it's speed (not sure about J Buckley, but Bonar, Daniels, Langdon, Shipley, D Buckley certainly all have speed/zip). We know that Jack Powell & Nathan Richards lack speed, so there seems to be a clear selection criteria. So while I'm not best pleased with the result, if we want the coaching team to have a plan (and likely vary it from the 2017 Giants game plan) then we do need to give them latitude to select the team that they believe they need to execute it.

 

[Aussie18]

I think in regards list size, we were always going to stick to 44. I am disappointed with going Buckley x 2 and missing out on academy kids, as I think it sends a poor message to future kids - and I guess I have doubts on whether the guys we picked up are indeed better in broad terms. However, looking at the theme in the selections - it's speed (not sure about J Buckley, but Bonar, Daniels, Langdon, Shipley, D Buckley certainly all have speed/zip). We know that Jack Powell & Nathan Richards lack speed, so there seems to be a clear selection criteria. So while I'm not best pleased with the result, if we want the coaching team to have a plan (and likely vary it from the 2017 Giants game plan) then we do need to give them latitude to select the team that they believe they need to execute it.

Granted there is a clear mandate on speed but the last to rookie picks will have no bearing on our best 22, Powell Richards Myers have given more to the club already unlike J Buckley. So to pick the academy boys and develope them in NEAFL would allow them time to grow as home grown talent, Heck the Suns SWANS and lions can do it those 3 players would have no bearing on best 22 in 2018 nor will the 2 Buckleys. Picking those 3 boys helps build the academy culture this years recruiting is weird. Why pass on Spargo and pick up Daniels? academy and recruiters imho not on same page. Sorry for this rant but im passionate about home talent.

 

[Giant Strides]

Granted there is a clear mandate on speed but the last to rookie picks will have no bearing on our best 22, Powell Richards Myers have given more to the club already unlike J Buckley. So to pick the academy boys and develope them in NEAFL would allow them time to grow as home grown talent, Heck the Suns SWANS and lions can do it those 3 players would have no bearing on best 22 in 2018 nor will the 2 Buckleys. Picking those 3 boys helps build the academy culture this years recruiting is weird. Why pass on Spargo and pick up Daniels? academy and recruiters imho not on same page. Sorry for this rant but im passionate about home talent.

Yes, I'm hearing you and don't disagree with most of what you say. I certainly want to promote the NSW talent. I guess I pull back a touch from strong condemnation because I don't know what the coaching staff are thinking and how they assessed the respective talents, long term versus short term strategy etc. In the end, the 8 positions filled for GWS via trade, draft & rookie draft did largely equate to what I originally thought, except for picking up 2 tall defenders - just not exactly who/how I thought they'd go.

At one of the sessions where the fans can ask questions of the coaching team etc, I'd certainly like someone to ask the question of what their approach to recruiting was and why Powell, Myers & Richards all missed the cut. Not sure they would answer in an open forum, but if so, it may be as simple as speed. And despite the rookies not necessarily being likely to reach best 22, it may be that the coaches want the NEAFL side to have similar characteristics and gameplan to the first grade team to enable easier transition.

 

[Brave New World]

Macreadie got to move to Sydney, go to Kings, and still got drafted. I don't see the downside from his POV.

After this time does anyone know why we didn't draft Macreadie?

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Powell Richards Myers have given more to the club already unlike J Buckley.

While I have been pretty vocal about picking academy players, I will say that J Buckley did play the maximum 5 NEAFL games as a top up for us last year.
Rd 13 v Brisbane (A)
Rd 14 v Thunder (H)
Rd 15 v Southport (A)
Rd 17 v Uni (A - at BISP)
Rd 18 v Gold Coast (A)

Couple of solid oppositions in there too, in Brisbane, GC and Thunder. And in the Uni game, which was Lids and Cogs comebacks, he was listed among the best on ground for us, behind Cogs, HH, Cumming and ahead of Lloyd.

So while he isn’t our academy he does have a connection to (and been a servant of) the club.

 

[Orange Agent]

Dylan Buckley is not AFL standard and has been given plenty of opportunity to prove he is at a bottom 4 side and failed. Shocking pick, all he can do is run fast and turn the ball over, offers nothing else.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Dylan Buckley is not AFL standard and has been given plenty of opportunity to prove he is at a bottom 4 side and failed. Shocking pick, all he can do is run fast and turn the ball over, offers nothing else.

He seems like he’s lamb mk 2 for us

 

[dlanod]

He seems like he’s lamb mk 2 for us

The main problem with Lamb was the contract. Obviously not the case with Buckley.

 

[Orange Agent]

So, have we actually improved our list this year?

My answer is a no. Interested in others opinions, I think this time last year we thought we made some good changes and bought in some high quality kids, injuries didnt help with hindsight reviews but it still looked like we hadn't gone backwards with those list changes. Im a big fan of Bonar already, adds an element of something we dont have and could certainly play rd 1. The others look long term, Taylor especially. I think Langdon at that draft pick range is worth the shot, Keefe and Buckley dont exite me even if they are minimum wage. But the in's dont match the outs at this stage for me. Get a slight impression we are looking for guys to play a game plan which has already been found out a bit rather than evolve and improve it. Clarko's cluster is one thing that springs to mind, he got success with it and kept on evolving it rather than keep trying to win each year playing the same style. I think the development of last years draft crop will be pivotal for the future, there was a lot more talent there which could help to even things out.

 

[dlanod]

OUT:
Smith
Wilson
M. Kennedy
Downie
Mumford
Johnson

IN:
Keeffe
Bonar
Daniels
Taylor
Giles Langdon
Shipley

I think Wilson will be the hardest replacement. I felt we looked better with Lobb in the ruck instead of Mumford this year, and some combination of Daniels, ZGL and D. Buckley could replace Smith moderately well. A. Kennedy would be the obvious replacement, which gives us better defense and OK rebounding but without that leg that can cut up zones on its own.

I don't know that we improved our list but I also think there's a fair chance our team will continue to improve this year, as our core starts to hit their prime. Smith and Johnson weren't massively effective throughout the year and Mumford was up and down. I think we're more likely to see last year's draftees step up rather than 1:1 comparison of this year's draftees.

 

[Danny88]

So, have we actually improved our list this year?

My answer is a no. Interested in others opinions, I think this time last year we thought we made some good changes and bought in some high quality kids, injuries didnt help with hindsight reviews but it still looked like we hadn't gone backwards with those list changes. Im a big fan of Bonar already, adds an element of something we dont have and could certainly play rd 1. The others look long term, Taylor especially. I think Langdon at that draft pick range is worth the shot, Keefe and Buckley dont exite me even if they are minimum wage. But the in's dont match the outs at this stage for me. Get a slight impression we are looking for guys to play a game plan which has already been found out a bit rather than evolve and improve it. Clarko's cluster is one thing that springs to mind, he got success with it and kept on evolving it rather than keep trying to win each year playing the same style. I think the development of last years draft crop will be pivotal for the future, there was a lot more talent there which could help to even things out.

What would you say is the game plan? I think every year the game plan has evolved significantly... We had the isolate a forward in the F50 and kick long, which became orange tsunami deliberately set up off half back to isolate that forward, which became hand ball chains through them middle and the introduction of switching gears out of defense to slow the transition when other teams are on top. I don't see why it wouldn't change again this year.

The last two years have shown the importance of forward pressure in finals football where pressure can overcome talent. I think we have drafted to improve that weakness in our game. I think we will keep elements of who we are and how we play but this year introduce a smaller forward line and make manic pressure in the F50 another string to the bow. 3 small, fast and tackling forwards come on to the list. For me...the direction we are heading is obvious and the drafting has reflected that so im happy we are addressing it

 

[Giant Pete]

I think we are right in the window now. We need a decent run with injuries. But we have real depth now... not relying on lots of First years to come in and perform like an experienced player.

 

[GiantMistake]

Totally disappointed and dismayed that the Giants hierarchy saw fit to pass on 3 live remaining rookie draft picks, and to leave these academy boys Powell and Richards hanging out to dry, after all the promises and dream-selling they've done to them over the last 4 years. These kids deserve their moment in the sun, to prove themselves, to work their butts off and become something. Instead they just go with a recycled nomad with no ties to Giants. Powell and Richards are worthy of a shot, and have performed admirably in the 16s, 17s, 18s (Powell BOG vs NZ, in team that beat Vic Metro in 18s Champs), have given loads to the Giants already (played and contributed to first ever winning Giants NEAFL Grand Final!), and have done everything asked. How are coaches in Canberra supposed to "sell the dream" to promising kids, when they see what just happened? What's the point of grooming 2 boys all the way through the Academy system, when they have no intention of taking them?? It's hard enough keeping them from soccer and league and basketball in a mutli-sport region. Wasting their time chasing a spot on the list they were never going to get, travelling far and wide to carnival after carnival, and also all the Giants NEAFL games in every other state, a lot of hours and $$$, and the reality is that VIC and SA recycled numpties are always a step ahead, no matter that they already had their shot and failed. This is not how you grow the game in your so-called "catchment area" - the Academy is just a money making tool.

Sadly, it's pretty obvious to all that the Giants are not serious about growing the game in Canberra. They are content to treat the region as a serious cash cow. 500+ families every year, across all age groups, forking over $500 a pop for a tracksuit and "the dream" (they have to be raking in $100,000s of coin),
some ordinary standard training (too many kids, not enough coaches), pack them off to a carnival or 2, and count the money! If someone as talented, decorated, hard working as Powell can't crack it for a spot as a 4th round rookie draftee (and not being "out-selected", just being "passed on"), then what
hope is there for any other Canberra kids? How do coaches continue to sell the dream, when the boys see what happened this year to one of the trail-blazer lads they all look up to? How do you justify to the parents that the cash it worth paying out, that there really even IS a actual pathway through the Giants Academy? They have just shown that when push comes to shove, they'll take a recycled VIC or SA player over a raw exciting fresh Academy product from the ACT, and even after that they would prefer to pass in draft choices than give these equally talented and exciting lads their deserved chance to shine.
Disgusted.

 

[Colonial]

OUT:
Smith
Wilson
M. Kennedy
Downie
Mumford
Johnson

IN:
Keeffe
Bonar
Daniels
Taylor
Giles Langdon
Shipley

I think Wilson will be the hardest replacement. I felt we looked better with Lobb in the ruck instead of Mumford this year, and some combination of Daniels, ZGL and D. Buckley could replace Smith moderately well. A. Kennedy would be the obvious replacement, which gives us better defense and OK rebounding but without that leg that can cut up zones on its own.

I don't know that we improved our list but I also think there's a fair chance our team will continue to improve this year, as our core starts to hit their prime. Smith and Johnson weren't massively effective throughout the year and Mumford was up and down. I think we're more likely to see last year's draftees step up rather than 1:1 comparison of this year's draftees.

Hopefully we dont have the injury crisis we had this year as well.

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[Colonial]

Totally disappointed and dismayed that the Giants hierarchy saw fit to pass on 3 live remaining rookie draft picks, and to leave these academy boys Powell and Richards hanging out to dry, after all the promises and dream-selling they've done to them over the last 4 years. These kids deserve their moment in the sun, to prove themselves, to work their butts off and become something. Instead they just go with a recycled nomad with no ties to Giants. Powell and Richards are worthy of a shot, and have performed admirably in the 16s, 17s, 18s (Powell BOG vs NZ, in team that beat Vic Metro in 18s Champs), have given loads to the Giants already (played and contributed to first ever winning Giants NEAFL Grand Final!), and have done everything asked. How are coaches in Canberra supposed to "sell the dream" to kids here, when they see what just happened? What's the point of grooming 2 boys all the way through the Academy system, when they have no intention of taking them?? Wasting their time chasing a spot on the list they were never going to get, travelling far and wide to carnival after carnival, and also all the Giants NEAFL games in every other state, a lot of hours and $$$, and the reality is that VIC and SA recycled numpties are always a step ahead, no matter that they already had their shot and failed. This is not how you grow the game in your so-called "catchment area" - the Academy is just a money making tool.

Sadly, it's pretty obvious to all that the Giants are not serious about growing the game in Canberra. They are content to treat the region as a serious cash cow. 500+ families every year, across all age groups, forking over $500 a pop for a tracksuit and "the dream" (they have to be raking in $100,000s of coin),
some ordinary standard training (too many kids, not enough coaches), pack them off to a carnival or 2, and count the money! If someone as talented, decorated, hard working as Powell can't crack it for a spot as a 4th round rookie draftee (and not being "out-selected", just being "passed on"), then what
hope is there for any other Canberra kids? How do coaches continue to sell the dream, when the boys see what happened this year to one of the trail-blazer lads they all look up to? How do you justify to the parents that the cash it worth paying out, that there really even IS a actual pathway through the Giants Academy? They have just shown that when push comes to shove, they'll take a recycled VIC or SA player over a raw exciting fresh Academy product from the ACT, and even after that they would prefer to pass in draft choices than give these equally talented and exciting lads their deserved chance to shine.
Disgusted.

Hmmm 1st post is this?

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[dlanod]

Hopefully we dont have the injury crisis we had this year as well.

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That's true of any club though. Once you've made finals, it's all about making sure you have your best team on the field for those four weeks.

 

[Colonial]

That's true of any club though. Once you've made finals, it's all about making sure you have your best team on the field for those four weeks.

And in the lead up. Underdone Deledio wasnt at his best.

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[GiantMistake]

Just an opinion. Doesn't make it any less valid because it a first post.
Not sure why it is "bait"?

 

[Colonial]

Just an opinion. Doesn't make it any less valid because it a first post.
Not sure why it is "bait"?

Being your 1st post doesnt make it seem like bait.
Nor being upset over the Academy players not being picked (a few including me are).

What does send alarm bells ringing though is the name GiantMistake that your only post includes things like "Giants arent interested in Canberra at all" "the academy is money making nothing more".

You've posted nothing anywhere else.

So either a troll from another club or a family or friend of a nonselected player(which you have my sympathy for) who is angry and you just want to vent.

Happy to be wrong but been here since the beginnings and can usually pick them.

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