Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

[Stamos]

Byrne, Macreadie, Plowman
Marchy, Weiters, Willo

Reason I like Doc through the middle is that he can drift with the play similar to what Goddard has done through his career, it allows for a strong back 6

I wouldn't call that a strong back 6 for next year. Stronger than what we've fielded this year for sure, but not strong. We desperately need Doc's leadership back there, at least for the foreseeable future.

 

[Soapy V]

Possibly but if we keep rowe do we trade jones?

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Not IMO. Depth is vital now

 

[Stamos]

Possibly but if we keep rowe do we trade jones?

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Jones is best 22, Rowe is a VFL player/last resort back-up.

That said, Jones is possibly the only tradable player on our list (ie someone we could possibly give up who has currency), but you would only move him on if it meant another peak-age best 22 player coming back in.
ie, we're not trading him for a draft pick (unless it is immediately on-traded).

 

[Arr0w]

Soap, Stamos, stop being so bloody conservative , if Doc's knee is sound, the balance of a best 22 with him roaming is so much more dangerous

 

[Blues90]

Jones is best 22, Rowe is a VFL player/last resort back-up.

That said, Jones is possibly the only tradable player on our list (ie someone we could possibly give up who has currency), but you would only move him on if it meant another peak-age best 22 player coming back in.
ie, we're not trading him for a draft pick (unless it is immediately on-traded).

I think the defence is more settled without him tbh happy for him to prove me wrong but he needs to calm down and try not to do so much and stay on his man more

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[Soapy V]

Soap, Stamos, stop being so bloody conservative , if Doc's knee is sound, the balance of a best 22 with him roaming is so much more dangerous

Not conservative Arr0w. I believe you play your best players in their best positions. Docherty is a running defender and an elite one. Next year our midfield will have enough options

 

[Blues90]

Not conservative Arr0w. I believe you play your best players in their best positions. Docherty is a running defender and an elite one. Next year our midfield will have enough options

That's what I say when people say play Charlie in the middle lol

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[BlueRenaissance]

I think the club has been smart with how they are trying to develop our players. We could have played more seasoned bodies more regularly, such as Graham, Kerridge, etc, but we all know the results, while perhaps losing margins may have decreased, we were always going to be lose given our injuries.

While other rebuilding clubs have played more senior bodies, we have given games early on to our kids. While Polson will never be a star, his output is not that different to other small forwards in poor sides, many with more seasons under their belt.

On the weekend, he only had 10 touches.

More than Mullet, Wright, SPS. As for the Dogs that won the game, he had more than, Dickson, Lynch, Greene, Gowers (All 4 being forwards)

The reason many have determined that he is not up to standard, is a lack of goals, but that will come, once we are more competitive as a group.

Again, he will not be a star, but he will be a regular contributor, while at the club

I understand some of your conclusions; and in his favour he is a very young age and played few games. The goals bit is misleading and not helpful. I'm looking at almost everything else and not goals contribution. Decision making, disposal and hitting targets 'when he does have time', tackling, physicality and a very basic thing in trusting a player when he is near the ball or has the ball. I really dont see any difference between him and Armfield. Armfield is faster and stronger. They both have a little bit of headless chook syndrome.

 

[La Dispute]

The whole thing just reads lol it doesn't annoy me just feel sorry for you

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Why do you feel sorry for me?

I feel sorry for posters who sit on the fence, are wildly optimistic without having anything substantial to back it up and bleat out the same platitudes about ‘trusting the process’ as soon as they get backed into a corner.

There’s way too much groupthink on this particular forum. Posters get chastised for saying anything remotely critical, yet you can come up with some outlandish trade scenarios which never come out in the real world and that’s just seen as par for the course.

We get a rough time from opposition supporters but I can certainly see why some think Carlton supporters are delusional, and there’s almost no denying it.

Ask any opposition poster what they think of Cam Polson or how likely it is we’re going to end up with Dylan Shiel and McGovern and Josh Kelly. Sure there’s a natural bias going the other way, but it’s far less than the OTT hyperbole and we encounter on this board.

Realism, and some constructive discussion is a genuine rarity. If you’re going to tell me why Polson is going to make it, actually present an argument on why he’s going to make it. I can tell you his shocking disposal numbers, poor ball handling, safe decision making and average AFL IQ are going to make it difficult for him to cement a spot as a regular senior footballer - that’s just the way it is. Until I get an argument contrary to that it’s all speculation and card-carrying optimism.

Just saying ‘Bolts knows best’ isn’t enough.

 

[Arr0w]

Wondering what would have happened if we left Jones forward

Pav was an AA, defender as well as a forward

Sometimes the things you yearn/need the most, are right under your nose

Anyway let's see how it pans out

 

[Arr0w]

I understand some of your conclusions; and in his favour he is a very young age and played few games. The goals bit is misleading and not helpful. I'm looking at almost everything else and not goals contribution. Decision making, disposal and hitting targets 'when he does have time', tackling, physicality and a very basic thing in trusting a player when he is near the ball or has the ball. I really dont see any difference between him and Armfield. Armfield is faster and stronger. They both have a little bit of headless chook syndrome.

Either way, we will both find out soon enough

 

[Blues90]

Why do you feel sorry for me?

I feel sorry for posters who sit on the fence, are wildly optimistic without having anything substantial to back it up and bleat out the same platitudes about ‘trusting the process’ as soon as they get backed into a corner.

There’s way too much groupthink on this particular forum. Posters get chastised for saying anything remotely critical, yet you can come up with some outlandish trade scenarios which never come out in the real world and that’s just seen as par for the course.

We get a rough time from opposition supporters but I can certainly see why some think Carlton supporters are delusional, and there’s almost no denying it.

Ask any opposition poster what they think of Cam Polson or how likely it is we’re going to end up with Dylan Shiel and McGovern and Josh Kelly. Sure there’s a natural bias going the other way, but it’s far less than the OTT hyperbole and we encounter on this board.

Realism, and some constructive discussion is a genuine rarity. If you’re going to tell me why Polson is going to make it, actually present an argument on why he’s going to make it. I can tell you his shocking disposal numbers, poor ball handling, safe decision making and average AFL IQ are going to make it difficult for him to cement a spot as a regular senior footballer - that’s just the way it is. Until I get an argument contrary to that it’s all speculation and card-carrying optimism.

Just saying ‘Bolts knows best’ isn’t enough.

All polson need to do is continue I don't expect him to have any massive impact for another 2 3 years

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[Stamos]

I think the defence is more settled without him tbh happy for him to prove me wrong but he needs to calm down and try not to do so much and stay on his man more

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He'll look a much more solid player with quality around him. Hardly played a game with Marchy, Doc and Willo out all year, Plowman and Weitering with injury troubles, and the ball coming in a million times a game.

 

[Soapy V]

Next years midfield

Cripps (elite)

Curnow (great worker)
Kennedy (big improver who will help Cripps enormously)
Dow (elite talent who will step up quickly. Inside and Outside)
SPS (elite talent just needs to get fit. Class outside Cripps, Kennedy & Curnow)
Walsh (elite young talent. Plays inside and outside with good skills)
Fisher (genuine ball winner with some leg speed)
LOB (outside runner/ball user with elite kicking)
Cuningham (speed and skill. Needs confidence)
Murphy (mostly up forward but can play there in bursts and help)
Charlie (with a developing forward line I can see him having midfield minutes)
Polson (can find it and is a smart player)

then add

Shiel (top shelf running midfield)

Possibles

Miles (hard inside player)
Dahlhaus (tough midfield/forward)
Jack (needs to keep developing)
Lang (at crossroads but needs big pre season)
Pickett (damaging wingman if he can get fit)

That IMO is a heck of midfield with a lot of upside.

 

[Blues90]

Next years midfield

Cripps (elite)

Curnow (great worker)
Kennedy (big improver who will help Cripps enormously)
Dow (elite talent who will step up quickly. Inside and Outside)
SPS (elite talent just needs to get fit. Class outside Cripps, Kennedy & Curnow)
Walsh (elite young talent)
Fisher (genuine ball winner with some leg speed)
LOB (outside runner/ball user with elite kicking)
Cuningham (speed and skill. Needs confidence)
Murphy (mostly up forward but can play there in bursts and help)
Charlie (with a devloping forward line I can see him having midfield minutes)

then add

Shiel (top shelf running midfield)

Possibles

Jack (needs to keep developing)
Lang (at crossroads but needs big pre season)

People may cut me down for this but I think obrien will be the more damaging player

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[Blues90]

He'll look a much more solid player with quality around him. Hardly played a game with Marchy, Doc and Willo out all year, Plowman and Weitering with injury troubles, and the ball coming in a million times a game.

Maybe I just feel he plays the same position as weiters

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[Stamos]

Maybe I just feel he plays the same position as weiters

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I see Jones FB, Weitering CHB

 

[Blues90]

I see Jones FB, Weitering CHB

Yeah but full back needs to peel off the man a lot less than he tries to

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[Stamos]

Yeah but full back needs to peel off the man a lot less than he tries to

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Wait till we've got a settled back 6

 

[Soapy V]

Yeah but full back needs to peel off the man a lot less than he tries to

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Don't be surprised to see Rowe play a lot of games. Plays a vital role in our structure. Allows Weitering/Marchbank to be more attacking

 

[Blues90]

Don't be surprised to see Rowe play a lot of games. Plays a vital role in our structure. Allows Weitering/Marchbank to be more attacking

I'd rather rowe than jones

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[Soapy V]

Wait till we've got a settled back 6

with a winning midfield

 

[BlueRenaissance]

I see our 2019 def talls being Weitering, Marchbank and Macreadie. Macreadie yes is a leap of faith.

I dont rate Jones or Rowe enough to want them to start the 2019 season. IMO, they 'should be' depth players.

 

[Arr0w]

Why do you feel sorry for me?

I feel sorry for posters who sit on the fence, are wildly optimistic without having anything substantial to back it up and bleat out the same platitudes about ‘trusting the process’ as soon as they get backed into a corner.

There’s way too much groupthink on this particular forum. Posters get chastised for saying anything remotely critical, yet you can come up with some outlandish trade scenarios which never come out in the real world and that’s just seen as par for the course.

We get a rough time from opposition supporters but I can certainly see why some think Carlton supporters are delusional, and there’s almost no denying it.

Ask any opposition poster what they think of Cam Polson or how likely it is we’re going to end up with Dylan Shiel and McGovern and Josh Kelly. Sure there’s a natural bias going the other way, but it’s far less than the OTT hyperbole and we encounter on this board.

Realism, and some constructive discussion is a genuine rarity. If you’re going to tell me why Polson is going to make it, actually present an argument on why he’s going to make it. I can tell you his shocking disposal numbers, poor ball handling, safe decision making and average AFL IQ are going to make it difficult for him to cement a spot as a regular senior footballer - that’s just the way it is. Until I get an argument contrary to that it’s all speculation and card-carrying optimism.

Just saying ‘Bolts knows best’ isn’t enough.

Funny isn't it, I don't buy into "in *** we trust" either, yet surely people at the club would be more qualified than all of us.

Personally, I couldn't give a stuff what most opposition supporters think as they have no idea of our list and the reasons for the season we are having just like many of our own supporters.

I do agree that many of the trade scenarios are farcical and heavily weighted in our favour, but that is not dissimilar to any other majority supporter group.

You ask for the reasons why some believe Polson will make it, you are supplied facts regarding disposals that are not dissimilar to other small forwards within the competition, yet the only fact you have is an opinion, just like anyone else. Again I will say, he had more disposals than 4 of the Dogs forwards on the weekend.

Easy to pot players, in starvation corner in a poor side and all this based on him playing 12 games. I am glad many here weren't list managers in Simpson's first 20 games.

 

[La Dispute]

All polson need to do is continue I don't expect him to have any massive impact for another 2 3 years

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You can see why that’s a ludicrously weak argument right?

Basically - he doesn’t do much but my expectations are low, and I’d rather not talk about him because what’s really to say? He’s one of the worst players currently getting a game in the AFL and the positives are few and far between.

This is the absolute crux of what I’m saying.