Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

[Mr_Plow]

And a forward line with good talls and smalls that he can deliver it to. Getting there. Still some way to go

Not worried about the forward line at all.

Hardest part in this league is finding that one superstar who can essentially beat any defender presented to him on any day.
We already have that guy.

The rest is basic.

Harry will be able to beat many defenders, particularly as he'll get the 2nd best.

The midfield, though?

Who can we rely on to simply be better than the opposition (in time)?

On any given day:

1. Cripps
2. Dow

On certain days

3. Samo
4. Kennedy
5. Fisher

Beyond that, I won't even bother.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

M.Mcgovern?

Could solve issues. Some.

As Stamos said earlier, our most pressing issue is a medium forward in the mould of a Robbie Gray, WHE etc. For me, the reason why collingwood have gone from a joke to a premiership chance is down to 3 guys for them. WHE, DeGoey and Stephenson. We need at least 2 similar.

Shiel would be gold. I get it. But until we have the players in the forward line (and multiple options) we will struggle. Charlie at some stage will hit a bad spot. Teams will figure him out and he will have to change his style a fraction. It hsppens. Remove him from our list and we look terrible.

More pressing than a Shiel is the medium forward player imo. 2 in fact. Also a Liam Ryan type wouldn't go astray (obviously with more games).

Judd mentioned a while back the medium forward like a DeGoey is what you can build a team around. Think he said its the most important position on the field in this day and age. We are lacking right here.

 

[F_therest]

Good group. Trying to think if there are any out there of lesser value. Would love a WHE type.
He and DeGoey are a big reason for their improvement

Can't really think of any out there atm who are realistically gettable and worthwile.
Maybe Jack Newnes from Saints, has been pretty good lately up forward and is a medium type.

Hopefully in 2019 we have Charlie and McKay as the 2 talls and with a deeper midfield Cripps can spend more time up there too.
Then have likes of Garlett and Pickett at their feet, with mids like Kennedy, SPS and Fisher rotating forward.

Kennedy is good overhead and would fit the 'mid-sized' brief when resting forward.

 

[F_therest]

Could solve issues. Some.

As Stamos said earlier, our most pressing issue is a medium forward in the mould of a Robbie Gray, WHE etc. For me, the reason why collingwood have gone from a joke to a premiership chance is down to 3 guys for them. WHE, DeGoey and Stephenson. We need at least 2 similar.

Shiel would be gold. I get it. But until we have the players in the forward line (and multiple options) we will struggle. Charlie at some stage will hit a bad spot. Teams will figure him out and he will have to change his style a fraction. It hsppens. Remove him from our list and we look terrible.

More pressing than a Shiel is the medium forward player imo. 2 in fact. Also a Liam Ryan type wouldn't go astray (obviously with more games).

Judd mentioned a while back the medium forward like a DeGoey is what you can build a team around. Think he said its the most important position on the field in this day and age. We are lacking right here.

At least we know the people in charge of the club are aware of his so obviously we will go hard to try to find some players of this type.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

At least we know the people in charge of the club are aware of his so obviously we will go hard to try to find some players of this type.

With judd stating it, i would think it would be front and center of what we want in our team. Maybe there is some truth to that report the other night that we are also in the hunt for DeGoey?

 

[Bobmonkey]

Yip … on the xmas wish list ….. and im not talking about Richmond small forward leftovers …. but a R Gray type. ….. almost Riewolt like …

If we finish with pick 1 god I hope we draft him. We might need mids but you don't turn down talent like that.

 

[F_therest]

With judd stating it, i would think it would be front and center of what we want in our team. Maybe there is some truth to that report the other night that we are also in the hunt for DeGoey?

TBF, could probably say we are 'in the hunt' for basically every player...which would be a loose but kinda true statement as we are looking at everyone. The papers don't say what level of interest, just a general statement.

In any case, reported that De Goey will re-sign with Collingwood which isn't surprising.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

TBF, could probably say we are 'in the hunt' for basically every player...which would be a loose but kinda true statement as we are looking at everyone. The papers don't say what level of interest, just a general statement.

In any case, reported that De Goey will re-sign with Collingwood which isn't surprising.

Suspect the trade and cash for DeGoey is too much. I much prefer the avenue we have taken. Draft best kids, bring in players like Kennedy, Marchbank etc to fill holes. Not all will work, but its worth a shot.

I look at geelong and they built a list from the draft. Added minimal players in that time. The benefits are still existent. DeGoey maybe the next big thing. Just don't think he's our next big thing

 

[DangerousD]

Could solve issues. Some.

As Stamos said earlier, our most pressing issue is a medium forward in the mould of a Robbie Gray, WHE etc. For me, the reason why collingwood have gone from a joke to a premiership chance is down to 3 guys for them. WHE, DeGoey and Stephenson. We need at least 2 similar.

Shiel would be gold. I get it. But until we have the players in the forward line (and multiple options) we will struggle. Charlie at some stage will hit a bad spot. Teams will figure him out and he will have to change his style a fraction. It hsppens. Remove him from our list and we look terrible.

More pressing than a Shiel is the medium forward player imo. 2 in fact. Also a Liam Ryan type wouldn't go astray (obviously with more games).

Judd mentioned a while back the medium forward like a DeGoey is what you can build a team around. Think he said its the most important position on the field in this day and age. We are lacking right here.

What reassures me is that Stephenson is a first year player, same as Ryan and Tim Kelly to that list. It goes to show that if the stars align we could surge up the ladder.

Stephenson has had the best first season that i can remember and i give him more credit for it actually being his first season and that he's 18-19. Also WHE cost sweet FA, i was keen to grab him as were many but he was labelled as a cram player by many and one that didn't address our needs.

As a genera rule i am not too concerned if we pick up a player who doesn't address our immediate need as long as that player will be a part of our next flag tilt.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Could solve issues. Some.

As Stamos said earlier, our most pressing issue is a medium forward in the mould of a Robbie Gray, WHE etc. For me, the reason why collingwood have gone from a joke to a premiership chance is down to 3 guys for them. WHE, DeGoey and Stephenson. We need at least 2 similar.

Shiel would be gold. I get it. But until we have the players in the forward line (and multiple options) we will struggle. Charlie at some stage will hit a bad spot. Teams will figure him out and he will have to change his style a fraction. It hsppens. Remove him from our list and we look terrible.

More pressing than a Shiel is the medium forward player imo. 2 in fact. Also a Liam Ryan type wouldn't go astray (obviously with more games).

Judd mentioned a while back the medium forward like a DeGoey is what you can build a team around. Think he said its the most important position on the field in this day and age. We are lacking right here.

If you dont mind me asking as much as i agree we do need a quality medium forward .
How does a MF over a Shiel type midfielder address our inside 50 shortage ?
You simply cannot win football games going inside 50 under 40 times per game as we have done 3 weeks running ?

 

[F_therest]

If you dont mind me asking as much as i agree we do need a quality medium forward .
How does a MF over a Shiel type midfielder address our inside 50 shortage ?
You simply cannot win football games going inside 50 under 40 times per game as we have done 3 weeks running ?

Agree that a mature gun mid is our most pressing need...followed by a medium forward and medium running defender.
They are all high priorities though. Hopefully we can address all 3 this off-season.

We actually have heaps of young talent in our midfield...Cripps, Kennedy, SPS, Fisher, Dow & LOB is 6 highly rated kids already. Hopefully Lang and Cuningham make it as well. Not that useful to add another kid like Walsh underneath them in the draft...we need a mature gun like Gaff/Shiel who will have a big impact straight away and help our kids develop.

We were very efficient i50 vs Port today...problem is we lost the i50's 38 to 64 which is a absolute smashing in that stat.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

If you dont mind me asking as much as i agree we do need a quality medium forward .
How does a MF over a Shiel type midfielder address our inside 50 shortage ?
You simply cannot win football games going inside 50 under 40 times per game as we have done 3 weeks running ?

Understand your question.

It doesn't make the inside 50s go higher. But it creates more chances to kick a winning score. Its not the be all and end all. But its the most important position there is. Robbie Gray, WHE/Degoey, sometimes Dusty and Dangerfield etc. Get the right guy and he creates not only scoreboard pressure but makes his team mates better than what they are.

I believe with Doc returning along with Williamson, these 2 players will make life much easier for our mids. We have lost a lot of everything by having Doc out of the team. And i believe Williamson adds a lot also.

Our young mids will get another preseason. Time together to grow is important.

Whoever we add this off season, it wont be an automatic fix.

If we go into our forward 50 next year at an average of 50 times a match and have a match winner forward line. We will make much better use and kick higher scores.

Todays match between Collingwood and gcs is a good example that teams that enter the forward 50 less can win. Gcs 58, collingwood 52. Yes collingwood had better delivery in. But its the forwards they have which i believe is the biggest reason why they won.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Understand your question.

It doesn't make the inside 50s go higher. But it creates more chances to kick a winning score. Its not the be all and end all. But its the most important position there is. Robbie Gray, WHE/Degoey, sometimes Dusty and Dangerfield etc. Get the right guy and he creates not only scoreboard pressure but makes his team mates better than what they are.

I believe with Doc returning along with Williamson, these 2 players will make life much easier for our mids. We have lost a lot of everything by having Doc out of the team. And i believe Williamson adds a lot also.

Our young mids will get another preseason. Time together to grow is important.

Whoever we add this off season, it wont be an automatic fix.

If we go into our forward 50 next year at an average of 50 times a match and have a match winner forward line. We will make much better use and kick higher scores.

Todays match between Collingwood and gcs is a good example that teams that enter the forward 50 less can win. Gcs 58, collingwood 52. Yes collingwood had better delivery in. But its the forwards they have which i believe is the biggest reason why they won.

Not sure using a GC game is a great example atm they are cooked . But Agree with all that would love to have a Robbie Gray type in time .
Yes we lack rebound Doc and willo will help that .
We lack another small and medium forward imo
Pickett i think can be a weapon when he gets a preseason and continuity .
But our midfield is miles behind the pies and it is easily our biggest issue .
We go ok in clearances and contested ball we suck on spread and run .
Weve got talent for sure but its the one area we are still very thin .
I ask a question if you took Patrick Cripps out of our side 1 player how confident are you of us winning 3 games next year with all players bar Cripps available and no midfield additions bar drafted 18 yr old players ? .

 

[skadoosh]

Unbelievable if you think Shiel wouldn't have helped today. How good was it to see Murphy receive a quick handball off from a mark, then proceed to run down the middle of the field to make something happen. That's exactly what we have been missing...I actually can't remember anyone on our team who has done that effectively over the last few weeks for us. It's not even being overly creative, just knowing where the right space to run into, and providing another route of entry into F50 - and that's something we don't receive too often.

Give me anyone who can run from a stoppage, or run through traffic, or make things happen in space.

 

[thylacine60]

he was mostly pretty clean today murphy - bit rusty but who wouldn't be

 

[branedotorg]

he was mostly pretty clean today murphy - bit rusty but who wouldn't be

i thought his positioning and carry were good but his disposal was pretty average.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I ask a question if you took Patrick Cripps out of our side 1 player how confident are you of us winning 3 games next year with all players bar Cripps available and no midfield additions bar drafted 18 yr old players ? .

Not confident. But thats what leads me to believe we aren't done with our reset. Remove Charlie and we are dead. Cripps also.

We are still 4 really good mids off.
1-2 medium forwards off.
1-2 small forwards off.

And another 22 plus games into the current group

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Not confident. But thats what leads me to believe we aren't done with our reset. Remove Charlie and we are dead. Cripps also.

We are still 4 really good mids off.
1-2 medium forwards off.
1-2 small forwards off.

And another 22 plus games into the current group

When we bring more mids in, Fisher is one I can definitely see playing primarily as a forward. He has the tools - speed, tenacity, skill and will apply forward pressure like no tomorrow. Cunners is another with potential to play that pos. He is a very good shot at goal, just needs lift his work rate and apply pressure. But he isn't afraid to take the game on and that's what you need out of those players imo.

Ideally, I'd want us to have 10 quality mids in our side. 4 of them A grade to elite. That way we can rotate them forward. So far we have Cripps and potentially Dow as the A grade to elite mids. If we get Shiel, he'd be the 3rd. That's why at the moment, I'd really want us to spend our #1 pick on the best mid available. My preference now that it's obvious Rankine has no desire to play in Vic would be Bailey Smith.

I wouldn't mind giving SPS a role playing in the back line. Instruction to set play up, he has the kicking skill to do so, just get the feeling he tries to be too cute with those piss fart kicks every time he gets it in a highly congested area. Tell him to create and give him the licence to split the lines with his kicking.

 

[BigFrizz36]

not using this as a definitive argument either way but i think that any potential shiel trade should be viewed in light of the tigers prestia trade. tigers gave up pick 6 for prestia and although he has missed a lot of football the trade is deemed a success due to their premiership.
is prestia is worth pick 6 and treloar 2 x 7's (with later picks back) then i think shiel is worth our first (say pick 2) with their first back (say 12).
if he genuinely wants to come now i think you have to take him. you get a year of an established star helping our youngsters and avoid a bidding war the following year.
tops up our midfield to above average and maybe draft the best small to mid forward at 12. cripps/kennedy resting up forward us our third tall forward option. fisher/sps (with a full pre season)/pickett/polson/murphy as small forwards.
just need harry or kerr to be consistent contributors and cgarlie to consider his ascension and our forward line could be as potent as any.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

We've arguably already got a Cripps helper in Kennedy.
Our greater need is a hard running, fast, strong line-breaking mid.

Shiel has that speed.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Shiel wouldn't have helped us today.
He is the cream you add to a semi strong list.
He racks up possessions but doesn't overly hurt teams. Averaging about 3 tackles a game, never kicked more than 13 goals in a season. Hes a classy mid, dont get me wrong.

He is only averaging 1 centre clearance a game (so he aint helping cripps anytime soon like some people think he will). 2 stoppage clearances a game. He has had 1 tackle for the whole year inside the attacking 50 and has kicked 3 goals 8 behinds in his 13 games played.

Yes... i want him. No i dont believe the argument we should get him as he will help cripps out. Thats been mentioned that many times on here without looking at the facts about Dylan.

He is an outside player. He doesnt hurt the opposition on the scoreboard. He does deliver the ball well to his team mates. So unless we have a killer forward line (which we dont) shiel wouldn't have made much difference and i doubt he will next year (if we get him) to our 2019.

Classy, classy player. Not a cripps helper. This guy is the cream. I just dont think our cake is set yet

Our biggest problem was moving the ball forward quickly. Imagine if we could play Charlie deeper at full forward with Pickett closer to goal.

Also allows Dow, Fisher and SPS to spread their midfield time.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Could solve issues. Some.

As Stamos said earlier, our most pressing issue is a medium forward in the mould of a Robbie Gray, WHE etc. For me, the reason why collingwood have gone from a joke to a premiership chance is down to 3 guys for them. WHE, DeGoey and Stephenson. We need at least 2 similar.

Shiel would be gold. I get it. But until we have the players in the forward line (and multiple options) we will struggle. Charlie at some stage will hit a bad spot. Teams will figure him out and he will have to change his style a fraction. It hsppens. Remove him from our list and we look terrible.

More pressing than a Shiel is the medium forward player imo. 2 in fact. Also a Liam Ryan type wouldn't go astray (obviously with more games).

Judd mentioned a while back the medium forward like a DeGoey is what you can build a team around. Think he said its the most important position on the field in this day and age. We are lacking right here.

I think the main reason we lost against Port was that their midfield got on top of ours.

We did not generate enough F50 entries. Medium forward or not doesn’t fix this.

Forward line

Smalls

IMO, we need Pickett to remain fit and build on that through another pre-season. We need another small forward pressure player. We struggle to keep the ball in our forward line. Garlett, Polson or Wright are ok, but we need better given the talls we have. Garlett might come better with another pre-season.

Mediums

We have Jack and he has the smarts but not the speed. He will do better in this role if we improved our F50 entries.

This ‘vacancy’ in our forward line I reserve for rotating, resting midfielders . So any of Cripps, Dow, Kennedy, Fisher, SPS, Murphy, etc.

Talls.

Charlie.
Harry is coming.
Casboult the forward ruck. TDK to get some games in this role next year.

 

[HARKER]

not using this as a definitive argument either way but i think that any potential shiel trade should be viewed in light of the tigers prestia trade. tigers gave up pick 6 for prestia and although he has missed a lot of football the trade is deemed a success due to their premiership.
is prestia is worth pick 6 and treloar 2 x 7's (with later picks back) then i think shiel is worth our first (say pick 2) with their first back (say 12).
if he genuinely wants to come now i think you have to take him. you get a year of an established star helping our youngsters and avoid a bidding war the following year.
tops up our midfield to above average and maybe draft the best small to mid forward at 12. cripps/kennedy resting up forward us our third tall forward option. fisher/sps (with a full pre season)/pickett/polson/murphy as small forwards.
just need harry or kerr to be consistent contributors and cgarlie to consider his ascension and our forward line could be as potent as any.

Our first pick for Shiel & #12?

No problem at all and especially so given our three best players were drafted at around the pick; Docherty@ #12, Cripps@ #13, CCurnow@ #12
Can't go wrong can we? Riley Collier-Dawkins @ pick 12 maybe?

 

[Weiterbot23]

What is Olivers contract status?

Can we just offer him 1.1mil x 6 years and give Melbourne pick 1?

 

[GapInIkonPark]

What is Olivers contract status?

Can we just offer him 1.1mil x 6 years and give Melbourne pick 1?

Why wouldn’t you take Shiel for a swap of our first pick with GWS’ first pick instead?