Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

[therubbernub]

We have a lot of pace. Just needs to mature or be injury free and get on the park. Mids I agree with but we need very good ones

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Any four will do

Yeah sure. But choose 4 that will definitely finish below us

 

[Iamcarlton]

1. How does Shiel support Cripps? He isnt that type of player.
2. You want to give up next years pick 1-4 and a (if we get a pp) pick about 19 for a guy thats free 12 months time

Fact is whether you want to accept Shiel as help or not If we can add some readymade players into our midfield Shiel being one of them maybe Wallis or similar another then Cripps will spend time forward .
As we have seen glimpses of in recent weeks .

 

[Captain Cripps]

If we finish year on one win regardless of injuries and think that’s ok and heading in right direction then I feel as though you’re having yourself on.

 

[Soapy V]

If we finish year on one win regardless of injuries and think that’s ok and heading in right direction then I feel as though you’re having yourself on.

No one thinks it's okay but they understand why. The reasons for it are sound. One positive is we have been able to get games into many young players. I'm looking forward to 2019.

 

[Arr0w]

If we finish year on one win regardless of injuries and think that’s ok and heading in right direction then I feel as though you’re having yourself on.

It is not okay to win one game, but we are heading in the right direction. If we had more senior players to share the load, we wouldn't have as much young talent that will take time to develop. No rebuilding side has ever truly perfected that balance every year, we are no different

 

[Captain Cripps]

It is not okay to win one game, but we are heading in the right direction. If we had more senior players to share the load, we wouldn't have as much young talent that will take time to develop. No rebuilding side has ever truly perfected that balance every year, we are no different

During a full rebuild or how many teams have won one game?
When was the last time this happened?
Fitzroy? I don’t know

 

[ESKIE]

During a full rebuild or how many teams have won one game?
When was the last time this happened?
Fitzroy? I don’t know

Sydney in 1993 I think it was, four games the year or similar

 

[Arr0w]

During a full rebuild or how many teams have won one game?
When was the last time this happened?
Fitzroy? I don’t know

How many rebuilding teams have had the injuries we have had?

If we remained with the gameplan of the previous 2 years, we may have won a couple more games, but the medium term progression would have been stifled. If we had these outcomes, with a fitter list, I would have concerns, but at this stage, all we can do is continue with getting games into the youth, which will benefit long term.

My concerns are not immediate, more if we come off course. The statement " a club in a hurry" is fine, but I don't want to see it turn into being impatient and targeting players with high draft picks, due to external noise, or within board level.

Continue to draft talent and chip away at needs. There are players at other clubs, that could be had for free, that will improve our 20-26 range players, while drafting more top end talent

 

[HARKER]

My concerns are not immediate, more if we come off course. The statement " a club in a hurry" is fine, but I don't want to see it turn into being impatient and targeting players with high draft picks, due to external noise, or within board level.
Continue to draft talent and chip away at needs. There are players at other clubs, that could be had for free, that will improve our 20-26 range players, while drafting more top end talent

I don't think that will come about as long as SOS and his department remain largely autonomous.
Our club has had the propensity to steer some critical decision making via self-serving needs. (Yes, Richmond did that also and somehow got away with it, but the approach is fraught with danger)

Happy for SOS and Bolton to put the gloves on and work out what they need for next year onwards, but just don't want the board 'suggesting' what the right approach should be. Again, at this stage we effectively don't have a Football Manager to massage the situation and I do worry that rash decisions may now have to be made for an appointment of a football manager. Maybe the work has already been done and it's just a matter of now putting the round peg into the round hole. That would be good.

 

[Faz 2000]

We're fully pot-committed to this rebuild now. We're the worst team seen in the AFL in decades, but not without hope for the future. If we lose our bottle now and look for a band-aid quick-fix instead of staying the course, we should all pack up and go home. This is the worst it will be. Need to stick fat now so we make it to some sunny skies ahead.

 

[El Topo]

During a full rebuild or how many teams have won one game?
When was the last time this happened?
Fitzroy? I don’t know

GWS is the best comparison. Young kids, a few stars, and a fleet of delisted meatshields.

 

[Big Red is back]

GWS is the best comparison. Young kids, a few stars, and a fleet of delisted meatshields.

GWS had a truck load more young talent due to the amount of picks they had.

 

[Arr0w]

GWS had a truck load more young talent due to the amount of picks they had.

And they lost a fair bit of that talent, due to the size of their squad in the early years and salary cap to keep said players

A best 22 of past players, some reasonable names

FB: Sam Frost (Melb), Lachie Plowman (Carl), Jack Hombsch (PA)
HB: Kristian Jaksch (Carl), Caleb Marchbank (Carl), Tom Bugg (Melb)
C: Jack Steele (STK), Taylor Adams (Coll), Anthony Miles (Rich)
HF: Will Hoskin-Elliott (Coll), Tom Boyd (WB), Jono O’Rourke (Haw)
FF: Liam Sumner (Carl) Josh Bruce (STK), Cam McCarthy (Fre)
Foll: Andrew Phillips (Carl), Adam Treloar (Coll), Dom Tyson (Melb)
I/C: Jacob Townsend (Rich), Jonathan Giles (WCE), Jarrod Pickett(Carl), Curtly Hampton (Adel)

That was from 2017, you could add our Kennedy, Nathan Wilson, Paul Ahern and Devon Smith

 

[james Dean]

I'm sorry but until we are consistently competitive and can get within 10 goals of the next worst team, we cannot be heading in the right direction. We are spiraling downwards and I'm not even sure if we have hit rock bottom yet.

Yes, we are playing a lot of young players, and that is essential and can even be used as a justification for why we are in the position we are in. However until those young players can demonstrate that they can play together or even perform consistently as individuals, we don't really have much to be hopeful about.

 

[footyfan1978]

You are forgiven.

 

[Arr0w]

I'm sorry but until we are consistently competitive and can get within 10 goals of the next worst team, we cannot be heading in the right direction. We are spiraling downwards and I'm not even sure if we have hit rock bottom yet.

Yes, we are playing a lot of young players, and that is essential and can even be used as a justification for why we are in the position we are in. However until those young players can demonstrate that they can play together or even perform consistently as individuals, we don't really have much to be hopeful about.

Young players being inconsistent? Think that is industry wide ?

 

[thylacine60]

Much appreciated ma’am

and going

 

[Faz 2000]

Yes, we are playing a lot of young players, and that is essential and can even be used as a justification for why we are in the position we are in. However until those young players can demonstrate that they can play together or even perform consistently as individuals, we don't really have much to be hopeful about.

I don't get how you can reconcile these ideas.

You understand that playing young players is essential, yet you won't have hope UNTIL it's proven? The point of playing youth is the future, not the proven here and now. Proven players aren't proven until they have proven it. Sure. But only young UNPROVEN players go on to become those proven players. You can't get to B without A.

 

[Soapy V]

Young players being inconsistent? Think that is industry wide ?

Need at look at it as if we had most of our list available. If so and how young we are I would have expected anyhwere between 4-6 wins.

The injuries (especially to Doc, Murphy, Kruezer etc) not only leave a massive hole but hugely effect the cohesion. That's why IMO we look so poor. We haven't had a chance to gel and at the moment we don't have the experience/maturity body size to handle it. Gibbs was also a big loss (although I agree with trade)

Key now is to get Medical/Fitness area right. That is my biggest concern. Bonus has been games into young players. It's massive. I expect so much improvement in those guys in 2019. Some will be 3-4th year players and ready to be more consistent.

A mostly fit list, some added experience and more young talent and 2019 will be a big step forward and this year will be a memory.

 

[james Dean]

Young players being inconsistent? Think that is industry wide ?

I don't get how you can reconcile these ideas.

You understand that playing young players is essential, yet you won't have hope UNTIL it's proven? The point of playing youth is the future, not the proven here and now. Proven players aren't proven until they have proven it. Sure. But only young UNPROVEN players go on to become those proven players. You can't get to B without A.

My point is we can't get optimistic about moving up the ladder and becoming competetive until we start seeing that these players actually can perform at this level. Yes, we are giving them the opportunities, but that doesn't mean that it will work. I'm not going to sit back and say all is ok, because we are playing a group of under 21s. If these kids don't make it, then we are going to be stuck at the bottom for years.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I don't get how you can reconcile these ideas.

You understand that playing young players is essential, yet you won't have hope UNTIL it's proven? The point of playing youth is the future, not the proven here and now. Proven players aren't proven until they have proven it. Sure. But only young UNPROVEN players go on to become those proven players. You can't get to B without A.

I don't mean to speak for him but for me it's abit like saying we have no idea of where we are at because we don't know if our kids will come good or not.
We could be at the start of something great or only at the beginning of a terrible time. Seriously no one can realistically say we will go one way or the other with any great confidence.

 

[Arr0w]

My point is we can't get optimistic about moving up the ladder and becoming competetive until we start seeing that these players actually can perform at this level. Yes, we are giving them the opportunities, but that doesn't mean that it will work. I'm not going to sit back and say all is ok, because we are playing a group of under 21s. If these kids don't make it, then we are going to be stuck at the bottom for years.

Not making it as being busts? As I don't see too many we have taken in the first 3 rounds of each draft that look like being busts

Or not making it, because they won't be elite and only A/B grades? You don't need a list of elite players to be competitive or successful, but you do need these kids to gain more experience

 

[Faz 2000]

Understand. Hope is about the uncertain future. I have hope this crop of young players will develop into something "good" (however that might be defined).

I think it's a near metaphysical certainty that this crop of young players will develop into something BETTER than they are this year. Whether it leads us to the promised land, who knows - a lot needs to go right to get to finals, top 4, flag-contention.

But to not have any hope for an uncertain future seems to be overly pessimistic. We have to see the possibilities, otherwise we are only looking at the here and now (like some lousy commentators are only capable of doing... Robert Walls, Kane Cornes spring to mind).

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

My point is we can't get optimistic about moving up the ladder and becoming competetive until we start seeing that these players actually can perform at this level. Yes, we are giving them the opportunities, but that doesn't mean that it will work. I'm not going to sit back and say all is ok, because we are playing a group of under 21s. If these kids don't make it, then we are going to be stuck at the bottom for years.

Sorry I didn't see this