Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

[ShanDog]

Just thinking out loud (so to speak) regarding list spot management - I think policy should be that two list spots are "reserved" for the best state-league players available each year and one spot for the best club-affiliated team's player. It means clubs can continually offer opportunity to those who may have been overlooked in drafts but developed really well in the proceeding couple of years, gives incentives to better align the AFL club with their affiliates state-league clubs and perhaps strengthens the state clubs overall by not losing potential AFL players to lucrative suburban footy leagues. It is a small but significant pathway for grass-roots football to offer the players. I'm not sure if it should be an AFL policy, but I'd be pretty happy to see our club have something like that as its own policy. Would certainly attract more players to the NBs and the stronger they are, the better.

Anyone think this is a good idea? Rubbish idea?

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

All these bloody Kennedy's out there. Where is an Oswald?

You are obviously referring to Q. Ostrich MB but I dont understand the Kennedy connection.

 

[Jimmae]

Am I the only supporter not keen on picking up Gaff. Is in career best form but can he maintain it throughout an extended contract? Very good player but not sure he is a game changer. I would prefer we save our bickies for Shiel J Kelly or a Whitfield type for when they come out of contract. In the meantime, I prefer we remain patient and pick up best available talent. IMO our club underestimated the extent of our list gap and another year of top end draft picks will help build the foundation of a future powerhouse, assuming we get our off-field football management stuff sorted out. Lets bring forward our 2019 draft pick and put it on the table and not get sucked into competing in an inflated player trade mark where St Kilda and North are reeking of desperation.

Dirk

I can count on one hand how many players I've seen run themselves into the ground like Gaff did against Port last year in the finals. He may not be the complete player, but he is a very very good player, not far behind Kelly.

Just thinking out loud (so to speak) regarding list spot management - I think policy should be that two list spots are "reserved" for the best state-league players available each year and one spot for the best club-affiliated team's player. It means clubs can continually offer opportunity to those who may have been overlooked in drafts but developed really well in the proceeding couple of years, gives incentives to better align the AFL club with their affiliates state-league clubs and perhaps strengthens the state clubs overall by not losing potential AFL players to lucrative suburban footy leagues. It is a small but significant pathway for grass-roots football to offer the players. I'm not sure if it should be an AFL policy, but I'd be pretty happy to see our club have something like that as its own policy. Would certainly attract more players to the NBs and the stronger they are, the better.

Anyone think this is a good idea? Rubbish idea?

I wouldn't want such a firm policy in place. The Hawks have had a wealth of talent hovering around Box Hill for years without resorting to fixed quotas.

 

[StandByyourMan]

We do need mongrel, but I don't think Gaff will provide us with that. Get him for his skills and the balance he provides our midfield.

In my playing days I found hard runners far more intimidating than players with mongrel

 

[footyfan1978]

Just thinking out loud (so to speak) regarding list spot management - I think policy should be that two list spots are "reserved" for the best state-league players available each year and one spot for the best club-affiliated team's player. It means clubs can continually offer opportunity to those who may have been overlooked in drafts but developed really well in the proceeding couple of years, gives incentives to better align the AFL club with their affiliates state-league clubs and perhaps strengthens the state clubs overall by not losing potential AFL players to lucrative suburban footy leagues. It is a small but significant pathway for grass-roots football to offer the players. I'm not sure if it should be an AFL policy, but I'd be pretty happy to see our club have something like that as its own policy. Would certainly attract more players to the NBs and the stronger they are, the better.

Anyone think this is a good idea? Rubbish idea?

I think it is rubbish sorry.
We need to treat every spot as precious.

 

[Moody Blue]

NO![/QUOTE]

Just thinking out loud (so to speak) regarding list spot management - I think policy should be that two list spots are "reserved" for the best state-league players available each year and one spot for the best club-affiliated team's player. It means clubs can continually offer opportunity to those who may have been overlooked in drafts but developed really well in the proceeding couple of years, gives incentives to better align the AFL club with their affiliates state-league clubs and perhaps strengthens the state clubs overall by not losing potential AFL players to lucrative suburban footy leagues. It is a small but significant pathway for grass-roots football to offer the players. I'm not sure if it should be an AFL policy, but I'd be pretty happy to see our club have something like that as its own policy. Would certainly attract more players to the NBs and the stronger they are, the better.

Anyone think this is a good idea? Rubbish idea?

Great idea, but no doubt the AFL will cite $$$$.

 

[murphbf08]

We really need to pick luko in this draft, if as expected we get a Priority pick pick 19, We get 3 hits at midfielders with those 3 second round picks. And if Mckay turns out to be a ripper and adelaide or port adelaide want luko in a few years we would get a great return. Gotta be thinking, is walsh or smith the next dangerfield, ablett or judd?, pick 19,25 and 20 whatever could be the next elite midfielder, we get three goes at it, have to take the best potental with pick one, just have to.

 

[Moody Blue]

I think it is rubbish sorry.
We need to treat every spot as precious.

Well if you look at our drafting history, the only people we have not picked were Moe, Larry & Curley.
Bootsma, Watson, Jaksch,Whiley,Boekhorst,Clem Smith,etc etc

 

[Tyruddanaut]

I think you're dreaming here, i think Adelaide will want pick 1 but its poor list management to offer 3 players/picks for 1, 2 is ok but not 3, maybe their 2nd going back.

So you comment on bad list management when Adelaide do one trade, but not when I say Carlton should get 8 first rounders
dangerousdane

 

[footyfan1978]

Well if you look at our drafting history, the only people we have not picked were Moe, Larry & Curley.
Bootsma, Watson, Jaksch,Whiley,Boekhorst,Clem Smith,etc etc

We had Curly in late 70's early 80's before draft era. Beat some clown the got charged by cops for assault on football field a few times.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Well if you look at our drafting history, the only people we have not picked were Moe, Larry & Curley.
Bootsma, Watson, Jaksch,Whiley,Boekhorst,Clem Smith,etc etc

Not since sos

 

[JustaBattler]

In my playing days I found hard runners far more intimidating than players with mongrel

In my playing days you couldn't be a mongrel unless you were a hard runner ...

 

[chipzac]

Well if you look at our drafting history, the only people we have not picked were Moe, Larry & Curley.
Bootsma, Watson, Jaksch,Whiley,Boekhorst,Clem Smith,etc etc

pretty sure he would have run rings around the opposition, though ... nyuk nyuk

 

[StandByyourMan]

In my playing days you couldn't be a mongrel unless you were a hard runner ...

Thank you

 

[Smegger]

In my playing days I found hard runners far more intimidating than players with mongrel

Not quite runners but close enough.

 

[DirkDiggler]

Those wondering how Hawthorn remain competitive for prolonged periods without bottoming out only need to look at Worpel. Touted as a top ten draft pick as a bottom ager then fell out of favour in his second year with question marks relating to his disposal. Picked up by Hawthorn at pick 45. Immediate impact. We went tall. It will be a while before we can assess TDK.

 

[Gobaggers2]

Just thinking out loud (so to speak) regarding list spot management - I think policy should be that two list spots are "reserved" for the best state-league players available each year and one spot for the best club-affiliated team's player. It means clubs can continually offer opportunity to those who may have been overlooked in drafts but developed really well in the proceeding couple of years, gives incentives to better align the AFL club with their affiliates state-league clubs and perhaps strengthens the state clubs overall by not losing potential AFL players to lucrative suburban footy leagues. It is a small but significant pathway for grass-roots football to offer the players. I'm not sure if it should be an AFL policy, but I'd be pretty happy to see our club have something like that as its own policy. Would certainly attract more players to the NBs and the stronger they are, the better.

Anyone think this is a good idea? Rubbish idea?

Fantastic idea. May result in less players giving up the dream. So hard to get drafted after your year in TAC cup. Would do wonders for state leagues as well. Win win


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gobaggers2]

We really need to pick luko in this draft, if as expected we get a Priority pick pick 19, We get 3 hits at midfielders with those 3 second round picks. And if Mckay turns out to be a ripper and adelaide or port adelaide want luko in a few years we would get a great return. Gotta be thinking, is walsh or smith the next dangerfield, ablett or judd?, pick 19,25 and 20 whatever could be the next elite midfielder, we get three goes at it, have to take the best potental with pick one, just have to.

Sorry but my foot is firmly in the other camp. And it’s size 13.
We need stability in the side and Walsh will be a consistent star. We will be ok in 2 years I reckon. That’s when we need continuity of players.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[footyfan1978]

View attachment 541538
Not quite runners but close enough.

Take it they need to be worn for new 6, 6, 6 set up next year by all players.

 

[Smegger]

Take it they need to be worn for new 6, 6, 6 set up next year by all players.

Maybe the umps. They'll have their work cut out for em. Are we going to eventually end up like NFL with line judges?

 

[Cliffords Blues]

Shane Nelson with another 44 disposal game for West Perth today

 

[footyfan1978]

Maybe the umps. They'll have their work cut out for em. Are we going to eventually end up like NFL with line judges?

No chance.

 

[Sheephead]

Those wondering how Hawthorn remain competitive for prolonged periods without bottoming out only need to look at Worpel. Touted as a top ten draft pick as a bottom ager then fell out of favour in his second year with question marks relating to his disposal. Picked up by Hawthorn at pick 45. Immediate impact. We went tall. It will be a while before we can assess TDK.

Exactly. I pumped the Worpedo on here incessantly last year and got literally smashed because he couldn’t kick. They’ve got another kid in the 2’s that will come on too - Cousins or something. Was a huge advocate of Tom Mitchell also and got smashed coz he was a flog and couldn’t kick. As my grand pappy use to say, gotta have the ball to be able to kick it boy, best you go get it. He played for South Melbourne. We’ve got some decent mids who can move it, no point though if you ain’t got it, and more times than not, they got it more than us, predominantly from our turnovers. We need the I can get it’s, not the I can use it’s.

FWIW - if we can get at players like Shiel, Gaff, Setterfield, GWS mids, Brodie etc etc...you gotta do it before taking on another prospect IMO. Yeah I put Brodie in that group, he’s just starting to get AFL, and his Uncle Paul says hello, just saying. Another kid that has gone well under the radar is Daniel Venables at WCE. Injured currently, but locals I hear see Shuey in him. That I want if he’s gettable ...and for the naysayers that get off Scrimshaw, he can play between the arcs and in the guts, I want that versatility too. A package for him and Brodie would be both smart and required.

 

[HARKER]

Exactly. I pumped the Worpedo on here incessantly last year and got literally smashed because he couldn’t kick. They’ve got another kid in the 2’s that will come on too - Cousins or something. Was a huge advocate of Tom Mitchell also and got smashed coz he was a flog and couldn’t kick. As my grand pappy use to say, gotta have the ball to be able to kick it boy, best you go get it. He played for South Melbourne. We’ve got some decent mids who can move it, no point though if you ain’t got it, and more times than not, they got it more than us, predominantly from our turnovers. We need the I can get it’s, not the I can use it’s.

FWIW - if we can get at players like Shiel, Gaff, Setterfield, GWS mids, Brodie etc etc...you gotta do it before taking on another prospect IMO. Yeah I put Brodie in that group, he’s just starting to get AFL, and his Uncle Paul says hello, just saying. Another kid that has gone well under the radar is Daniel Venables at WCE. Injured currently, but locals I hear see Shuey in him. That I want if he’s gettable ...and for the naysayers that get off Scrimshaw, he can play between the arcs and in the guts, I want that versatility too. A package for him and Brodie would be both smart and required.

I was surprised Worpel went that late also, having liked him in his under-age year in the TAC.
These things happen, but it's also no surprise he's doing well at a club like Hawthorn who can manufacture what they want from just about anywhere; See Blake Hardwick, Harry Morrison in recent years.
The selling point they still have at their club is one of, 'We'll make you a better player' and that's quite an attractive attribute for a club to have, from the point of view of attracting talent through the door.

We have some way to get to that level just yet and that proof may have to come by way of Pickett, Kennedy, Lang etc. They're being given opportunity and we have to show that we've made them into very good players.
More recent history has shown we haven't been able to do so; Smedts, Palmer, Gorringe, Lamb, Kerridge etc and we can add the likes of O'Shea, Shaw and Mullett from last year. Last thing we need though is for SOS telling everyone that we recruit players as 'fillers' That's not going to endear us to anyone.

 

[blueballs99]

We need to start acting with a sense of urgency , if we are serious about climbing up the ladder and ultimately reaching cup number 17 we need to take drastic measures . We need to do whatever it takes to make deals happen for premium players ..supporters have had enough they have suffered enough . We want to be the old Carlton again