List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 2

[BrutThough]

The damming thing about what Dal was saying is that while he referenced all these legends that helped him when he arrived… if our current batch are so bereft of leaders showing them the way, what does it say about Roo, Joey, Dempster, Chips, even Lenny was still there when Dunstan, JB & Acres came to the club… so why didn't they pass the baton down as Dal was suggesting they got from all those legends?

I would love someone in the media to have the balls to ask Nick or Joey that.
Its easy to sit there and call the group 'soft' and 'mentally weak' (because its true) but why hasnt their leadership and mentorship they talked about delivering for years actually done anything? Did they actually spend the time to do those extras with the young guys Dal talked about, or were they cutting corners too.

 

[gringo2011]

I would love someone in the media to have the balls to ask Nick or Joey that.
Its easy to sit there and call the group 'soft' and 'mentally weak' (because its true) but why hasnt their leadership and mentorship they talked about delivering for years actually done anything? Did they actually spend the time to do those extras with the young guys Dal talked about, or were they cutting corners too.

I think we moved on a lot of the standard setters. We chose to go backwards and the guys that were there when the older heads were there were only place holders. Tom Lee, Saunders, Spencer White, Mc Evoy, Stanley, Cripps, Siposs etc probably got something out of it. We just moved them on for a new batch every three years or so.

Actually don't read that, I'm a reformed pessimist these days. All is good and will only get better.

 

[kernelT]

A mid year sacking next year might be required if we’re still looking bad half way thru next year

Too late then, players will have already agreed to deals elsewhere and won't re-commit whilst we don't have a replacement coach.
We need a fresh start with a game plan that makes sense and puts players where they are best suited, stop playing under-performing hacks on some leadership/experience furphy and hopefully this gives us more energy and ultimately competitiveness… something kids can be excited about being part of.

 

[Jade Buddha]

So our previous leaders weren't part of or capable of mentoring??

 

[BrutThough]

I think we moved on a lot of the standard setters. We chose to go backwards and the guys that were there when the older heads were there were only place holders. Tom Lee, Saunders, Spencer White, Mc Evoy, Stanley, Cripps, Siposs etc probably got something out of it. We just moved them on for a new batch every three years or so.

Actually don't read that, I'm a reformed pessimist these days. All is good and will only get better.

Billings, Acres and Dunstan had 4 years with Nick and Joey, 3 with Dempster and Fisher. Those standards should have transferred in that time, otherwise they were doing a lousy job. Seb was speaking last week about what he learnt off Jason Blake and how his work ethic really helped him, and he only spent 2 years with him. That 'older' group dont have any excuses when it comes to effort and training standards.

But we do need that type of guidance for the Hunter and Coffield generation.

 

[BigPowerForward]

I would love someone in the media to have the balls to ask Nick or Joey that.
Its easy to sit there and call the group 'soft' and 'mentally weak' (because its true) but why hasnt their leadership and mentorship they talked about delivering for years actually done anything? Did they actually spend the time to do those extras with the young guys Dal talked about, or were they cutting corners too.

I agree Brut. There is a Ralph Nader quote that says the function of leadership is to produce more leaders, not more followers. We had strong leaders but for whatever reason it has not passed down and we now have a big leadership vacuum.

 

[Longmembrey]

It didn't sound as bad on the radio. I thought he was quite measured and wants what's best for us still.

For Dal to say that was pretty damning. Lets be clear, he said an 18yo draftee would be better off going to certain clubs OTHER than St Kilda. And he is a current employee of St Kilda, so he wasn't just guessing. He knew exactly what he was saying. Maher asked him all the right questions. Coincidence?

 

[Mowman]

I also heard news today about one of our best 22 ( not Billings) has told his manager he wants out . He said hes not the only one . He’s contracted for next year . I can’t say who it is as it came from his family . Has me worried about how many we may lose next year if Richo can’t turn this around.
A mid year sacking next year might be required if we’re still looking bad half way thru next year

Gresh has 1 year to go

 

[Longmembrey]

I know but Andy Maher was leading him into a trap. He didn't say it in a scandalous way, he just said what he'd do to fix the situation. It's a shame, he's been refreshing in the media. Hopefully he doesn't get guarded from this.

Pretty sure Maher asked him the exact questions that Nick told him to ask.

 

[kernelT]

I think we moved on a lot of the standard setters.

Dal & BJ might have left, but the 2014 list had - Riewoldt, Schneider, Gwilt, Geary, Dempster, Fisher, Jones, Ray, Armitage, Steven, Hayes, Montagna.

Seriously, no lack of experience in that outfit to pass on the good stuff.

 

[BrutThough]

Gresh has 1 year to go

There is no way we would agree to let Gresh go. If he asked, we better flat out refuse to trade him and do whatever we need to do over the next 12 months to change his mind.

Looking at the list, I hope its Dunstan.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Gresh has 1 year to go

Imagine if the one player on our list who has 'star' written all over him was to leave, Moorabbin would be burned to the ground.

 

[VDS66]

Casual

Just like he played...

 

[Longmembrey]

I agree Brut. There is a Ralph Nader quote that says the function of leadership is to produce more leaders, not more followers. We had strong leaders but for whatever reason it has not passed down and we now have a big leadership vacuum.

Who is this Ralph Nader campaigner and can he play ruck?

 

[King_Knut]

Could be Sincs

 

[Rors]

I also heard news today about one of our best 22 ( not Billings) has told his manager he wants out . He said hes not the only one . He’s contracted for next year . I can’t say who it is as it came from his family . Has me worried about how many we may lose next year if Richo can’t turn this around.
A mid year sacking next year might be required if we’re still looking bad half way thru next year

PM please

Spill.... Be cryptic

 

[BrutThough]

Could be Sincs

As long as it isn't Gresh.

 

[gringo2011]

For Dal to say that was pretty damning. Lets be clear, he said an 18yo draftee would be better off going to certain clubs OTHER than St Kilda. And he is a current employee of St Kilda, so he wasn't just guessing. He knew exactly what he was saying. Maher asked him all the right questions. Coincidence?

I think he was trying to nut out why though. Not just blanketing the lower clubs.

 

[stfan]

For Dal to say that was pretty damning. Lets be clear, he said an 18yo draftee would be better off going to certain clubs OTHER than St Kilda. And he is a current employee of St Kilda, so he wasn't just guessing. He knew exactly what he was saying. Maher asked him all the right questions. Coincidence?

Might bee too that Dal knows that big broom is coming.

 

[pebblesofsand]

The damming thing about what Dal was saying is that while he referenced all these legends that helped him when he arrived… if our current batch are so bereft of leaders showing them the way, what does it say about Roo, Joey, Dempster, Chips, even Lenny was still there when Dunstan, JB & Acres came to the club… so why didn't they pass the baton down as Dal was suggesting they got from all those legends?

Just proves that there's a big difference between leading and being a leader.

Its more a case that many of who you mentioned could set an example but weren't actual leaders. I never really saw Roo as a great "leader" - more a player who set the example of trying to get the best out of himself. Not dissing him - I just think leadership is an exceptionally difficult thing to actually do well.

Currently I'd rate Zeibell, J Selwood as the best but they'd both be a mile behind Hodgey!!!

 

[joop]

I'd be pretty pissed if we traded Billings or Acres... but I'd fair dinkum give up if we traded Gresh.

 

[BigPowerForward]

Who is this Ralph Nader campaigner and can he play ruck?

He is listed as 1.91m and 84 years old. Worth a go I suppose!

 

[gringo2011]

Dal & BJ might have left, but the 2014 list had - Riewoldt, Schneider, Gwilt, Geary, Dempster, Fisher, Jones, Ray, Armitage, Steven, Hayes, Montagna.

Seriously, no lack of experience in that outfit to pass on the good stuff.

That was a bit of an overlap year but from this list I did a quick count and came up with 26 players who are no longer there and another 4 to 6 who would be extremely lucky to be on our list next year. The high turn over numbers don't lead to excellence in leadership.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/st-kil...n/news-story/1999b3ab0c65852aa51cb7abc4c7befc

 

[Longmembrey]

He is listed as 1.91m and 84 years old. Worth a go I suppose!

Yep, he is still younger than Armo's back.

 

[Joffaboy]

Interesting Dal throwing Roo and Joey under the bus saying the kids had nobody to learn from.
Weren't they there up until this season?
Obviously Dal didn't rate them.

Interesting

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