2019 F1 Championship Round 18 - Mexican Grand Prix

Herne Hill Hammer

Premium Platinum
Jun 22, 2008
19,098
14,144
Cowes
AFL Club
Geelong
Daniel saw the writing on the wall (that Max was the preferred driver) and chose to leave rather than stay and fight.
Red Bull are a far stronger team (with more upside). They are a good chance to get another Grand Prix win this weekend, their 3rd of the season and 7th podium.

Renault will be lucky to still be in F1 after 2021...
What was he going to fight?

No matter Daniel's results at Red Bull, the young golden haired, European boy Verstappen was always going to be preferred. Same with Vettel over Webber ( I think Ricciardo is a much better driver than Webber ever was)
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

darth_timon

Premiership Player
Oct 24, 2011
3,580
1,706
UK
AFL Club
GWS
Other Teams
Liverpool FC
I know it's weird, as a Hamilton fan, but if the top six all took each other out, imagine the noise if Perez won.
 

DamoESP

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 2, 2008
6,459
3,558
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
San Antonio Spurs, Dallas Stars
hahaha classic line from VET in regards to Hamilton's tyres:


"If you're a woman on this planet and you have this guy giving you a massage like he's treating the tyres, it's just pure magic!"
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

TheMase

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 20, 2001
18,745
14,104
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sydney Swans
Pretty happy with Dans race. Shame he couldn’t get Perez but he defended well. Only the one spot off the maximum the car is capable of. 2nd and podium in the midfield battle if you like.
 

happy_eagle

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 20, 2007
21,632
14,519
AFL Club
West Coast
What was he going to fight?

No matter Daniel's results at Red Bull, the young golden haired, European boy Verstappen was always going to be preferred. Same with Vettel over Webber ( I think Ricciardo is a much better driver than Webber ever was)
Better to be the 2nd driver at RBR than the first driver in a team that probably won't exist in a couple of years. Also helps him maintain his reputation as a top driver if he's still hanging around the podium.

The ideal scenario for Ricciardo would have been to put up with Max's shit for 2 years and race him when possible and then hope that a top seat opens up in 2021. Right now he is doing enough damage to his driving reputation that I worry in 2021 he won't be as sought after if a top seat becomes available.
 

Herne Hill Hammer

Premium Platinum
Jun 22, 2008
19,098
14,144
Cowes
AFL Club
Geelong
Better to be the 2nd driver at RBR than the first driver in a team that probably won't exist in a couple of years. Also helps him maintain his reputation as a top driver if he's still hanging around the podium.

The ideal scenario for Ricciardo would have been to put up with Max's shit for 2 years and race him when possible and then hope that a top seat opens up in 2021. Right now he is doing enough damage to his driving reputation that I worry in 2021 he won't be as sought after if a top seat becomes available.
You criticize him from running away from a fight at Red Bull but then suggest he should have been happy to be number 2 to Max and just put up with his 'shit for 2 years.
 

happy_eagle

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 20, 2007
21,632
14,519
AFL Club
West Coast
You criticize him from running away from a fight at Red Bull but then suggest he should have been happy to be number 2 to Max and just put up with his 'shit for 2 years.
He should have fought Max where possible (I said this in my post), but if there was an option between being 2nd at RBR to being 1st at Renault, you'd be silly not to pick the former.
 

imadodgyumpire

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 10, 2011
18,917
13,782
AFL Club
Carlton
He should have fought Max where possible (I said this in my post), but if there was an option between being 2nd at RBR to being 1st at Renault, you'd be silly not to pick the former.
I see you pov, but I don't think this applies to Ricciardo atm.

Being a no2 to Verstappen is alright for Gasly, Albon, and all the drivers below in cars worse than RB, because RB gives them an opportunity to get better results than they otherwise have achieved. Getting the odd podium, or even win, while being team mates with no1 Verstappen still increases their reputation.

This isn't good enough for Ricciardo as he's established himself as a premier driver in F1. For him to accept being a no2 at RB after what he's done from 14-18, shows everyone that he can be diminished within the team. For Ricciardo to accept a Renault drive over no2 at RB tells everyone, particularly MB and Ferrari, that he's not a no2 in any context. It's a statement saying "It's either equal status, or I'm no1"

Being at Renault gives him the opportunity to elevate himself further. He hasn't made the most of it due to his own errors. But had he finished 6th, or a close 7th or 8th this year, that would compliment what he achieved so far. Had he had the season similar to what Sainz is having, people could claim that Ricciardo is genuinely the best driver this season, and overall, in the field. You can torch Hamilton fans by legitimately doubting that Hamilton could do better.

There's nothing to gain for him continuing at RB. His time was done.
 

happy_eagle

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 20, 2007
21,632
14,519
AFL Club
West Coast
I see you pov, but I don't think this applies to Ricciardo atm.

Being a no2 to Verstappen is alright for Gasly, Albon, and all the drivers below in cars worse than RB, because RB gives them an opportunity to get better results than they otherwise have achieved. Getting the odd podium, or even win, while being team mates with no1 Verstappen still increases their reputation.

This isn't good enough for Ricciardo as he's established himself as a premier driver in F1. For him to accept being a no2 at RB after what he's done from 14-18, shows everyone that he can be diminished within the team. For Ricciardo to accept a Renault drive over no2 at RB tells everyone, particularly MB and Ferrari, that he's not a no2 in any context. It's a statement saying "It's either equal status, or I'm no1"

Being at Renault gives him the opportunity to elevate himself further. He hasn't made the most of it due to his own errors. But had he finished 6th, or a close 7th or 8th this year, that would compliment what he achieved so far. Had he had the season similar to what Sainz is having, people could claim that Ricciardo is genuinely the best driver this season, and overall, in the field. You can torch Hamilton fans by legitimately doubting that Hamilton could do better.

There's nothing to gain for him continuing at RB. His time was done.
I think it depends on what you think being Number 2 at RBR would have looked like. I don't think it would have gotten to "Valtteri, its James" territory, and I reckon that Max and Daniel would have been free to race within reason (i.e not Azerbaijan 2018), even if Max was seen as the team leader.

The gap between Daniel and Max ability wise is far less than the gap between Vettel and Webber, so there wouldn't have been any overt favouritism to Max if Daniel had stayed on (to clarify, when I say overt favouritism I mean pitting one car to take off its front wing then give it to the other driver). Most of what Daniel would had to have put up with was political nonsense (that is mainly driven by Jos Verstappen, who seems like a real prick).
 

imadodgyumpire

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 10, 2011
18,917
13,782
AFL Club
Carlton
I think it depends on what you think being Number 2 at RBR would have looked like.
Yes. It seems you are more optimistic than what I am.

I don't think it would have gotten to "Valtteri, its James" territory, and I reckon that Max and Daniel would have been free to race within reason (i.e not Azerbaijan 2018), even if Max was seen as the team leader.
I have to admit that nothing in 18 gave me confidence that it wouldn't be like this.


The gap between Daniel and Max ability wise is far less than the gap between Vettel and Webber, so there wouldn't have been any overt favouritism to Max if Daniel had stayed on (to clarify, when I say overt favouritism I mean pitting one car to take off its front wing then give it to the other driver). Most of what Daniel would had to have put up with was political nonsense (that is mainly driven by Jos Verstappen, who seems like a real prick).
Hmm, yeah. Now I'm getting your point, you might be right. I suppose I've interpreted what was going on at RB far more cynically than you have.
 

happy_eagle

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 20, 2007
21,632
14,519
AFL Club
West Coast
2018 is hard to judge because the Renault engine kept shitting the bed (mostly on Daniels side unfortunately) but I can't remember too many instances where Max and Daniel weren't allowed to race each other ?

The way that second drivers get screwed the most is when teams decide to split pit strategies. Although with the number of races that are becoming boring 1 stops, this is less of a worry.
 

Top Bottom