Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[Mr_Plow]

Possibly as a tagger, yet given his stature, he would be exploited if dragged forward by his immediate opponent

Think he needs to build confidence and touch through the middle at VFL level

Only way I see Polson becoming an AFL player is transforming into a small defender in the Neville Jetta mould. Polson is adept defensively but lacks the class and composure to make plays.

He should have spent this last portion of the year in defence.

If he stays on the list, he should be trained as a lockdown small and then gradually grow his offensive game.

 

[cfc4life]

Only way I see Polson becoming an AFL player is transforming into a small defender in the Neville Jetta mould. Polson is adept defensively but lacks the class and composure to make plays.

He should have spent this last portion of the year in defence.

If he stays on the list, he should be trained as a lockdown small and then gradually grow his offensive game.

I was actually impressed with him yesterday but agree that he just doesn't have what is required to play AFL regularly.

 

[Stamos]

If we're in with a chance at a Papley, Martin, Hill or any player who would improve our current list why do we think that we have to use combinations of our next 2 first round picks?

Why would we not consider offering one of our current better players as part of a trade?

As an example (and won't be popular) but if we can get Papley with a trade (and trade backs) of, let's say, a Dow, Cuningham or Williamson and hold that pick of 9 or 10 why does this not become a win/win?

I know many will say that it will come back and bite us if they turn out to be guns but this didn't stop Brisbane from trading a number 2 pick and that hasn't hurt them and will probably be seen by the Bulldogs as a positive trade as well.

The overall strengthening of the team is far more important to me than retaining players just because we happen to like some things they have done.

In short I would rather trade out one of those players to get Papley, throw the brown paper bag at Coniglio, try for another decent FA and keep that first round pick. Would rather stay in at the low end of the draft if possible.

I'm not saying we won't trade any players, but certainly most, including the club, would rather trade picks than players we've put development into. Of the 3 you listed, there is absolutely no way we trade Dow to keep a pick, it puts us backwards. Likewise, Cuningham is unique on our list, we need to add players like him not lose them. Willo has no trade currency.

We don't need more kids. That was a factor in the Stocker trade, that we'd be chasing mature players and we were better off getting a kid we loved and putting an extra year of development into him, rather than having a higher pick.

I can see us as a possibility taking only the required minimum 2 draft picks this year, and upgrading Gibbons, and Owies to Cat A.

 

[Mr_Plow]

I was actually impressed with him yesterday but agree that he just doesn't have what is required to play AFL regularly.

He certainly brought the intensity yesterday, credit to him.

His strong endeavour would be useful in defence.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Warning: quite long and unpopular post following.

One of the things I find interesting is that most seem to regard this thread as a platform to discuss who we think should be targetted and who we think will be de-listed.

We have been ultra competitive in the 6 games under Teague and, I think, fair to say at least competitive in 6 of the 11 we played under Bolton. This, to me, indicates that even our best available weekly 22 will prove to be mostly competitive against all rivals and will give us all some happy days.

If the players missing through injury and considered here to be best 22 ( Charlie, Docherty, Marchbank, McGovern, Cuningham, Williamson and Dow) were fit and available, selection would be a difficult process. That really gives us 29 players all vying for a best 22 appearance and doesn't include others who have the potential to develop to that level.

By no means does that mean that we have "arrived", just a long way better than we were 12 months ago. This DFA and Trade period is crucial, this is where we need to start to tweak that list and improve it.

Many have named who they think will go this year and I haven't seen anything that I violently disagree with on those lists but the point I'd make is that few, if any, of those players would result in anything coming back our way. Most would be DFA's

If we're in with a chance at a Papley, Martin, Hill or any player who would improve our current list why do we think that we have to use combinations of our next 2 first round picks?

Why would we not consider offering one of our current better players as part of a trade?

As an example (and won't be popular) but if we can get Papley with a trade (and trade backs) of, let's say, a Dow, Cuningham or Williamson and hold that pick of 9 or 10 why does this not become a win/win?

I know many will say that it will come back and bite us if they turn out to be guns but this didn't stop Brisbane from trading a number 2 pick and that hasn't hurt them and will probably be seen by the Bulldogs as a positive trade as well.

The overall strengthening of the team is far more important to me than retaining players just because we happen to like some things they have done.

In short I would rather trade out one of those players to get Papley, throw the brown paper bag at Coniglio, try for another decent FA and keep that first round pick. Would rather stay in at the low end of the draft if possible.

Take a look at the draft pool this year and let me know which player you think will be available around Pick 12 who would be better for us than Dow or Cunners. Willo, at this stage, is steak knives - we'll back ourselves to get him fit and fighting, but another club isn't going to give anything up for a kid with repeat back issues.

We're at the point in the rebuild where we don't need to prioritise kids - we've been doing that to excessive levels over the last four years, bringing in more kids than any other club, and now we need to balance it out by trading some picks for quality mature players.

Everyone loves a draftee, they're exciting new toys to open before Christmas. Not what we need right now, and we don't do any harm to the list by trading for older blokes this year before going back to the draft next year.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If I was a betting man I'd put good money on him still being on the list next year. People need to realise he's playing as a small forward so 10-15 possessions is actually the norm. Listen to the coach giving him a wrap after Saturday's game if you don't think he's been contributing.

He hasn’t been contributing, he did for the first time on the weekend that’s my point. If he can play like that for the rest of the season he will most likely stay I just don’t think he will.

 

[blue healer]

Take a look at the draft pool this year and let me know which player you think will be available around Pick 12 who would be better for us than Dow or Cunners. Willo, at this stage, is steak knives - we'll back ourselves to get him fit and fighting, but another club isn't going to give anything up for a kid with repeat back issues.

We're at the point in the rebuild where we don't need to prioritise kids - we've been doing that to excessive levels over the last four years, bringing in more kids than any other club, and now we need to balance it out by trading some picks for quality mature players.

Everyone loves a draftee, they're exciting new toys to open before Christmas. Not what we need right now, and we don't do any harm to the list by trading for older blokes this year before going back to the draft next year.

So you think we should use our picks to trade in "quality mature players" and go back into the draft next year. To my knowledge we have Adelaides first this year and no second round pick. We may get one quality player for that so what do we use for any others we may target if we want to get back into next years draft in the first round?

Pretty logical that, if we don't have enough decent picks to either use in the draft or trade, we can only get them by trading out players. The catch 22 here is we have to trade out good players to get good picks. If not I struggle to see what we have to trade with.

I have no idea which players we could draft with 12 (or IMO more likely 10) and I'm aware that we would have to allow development time but I do know there is a far better chance of picking a good one there than in the third round.

I only used Dow as an example and would not be pleased were we to do that, I think he will be a gun and was only thinking outside the square and I do agree that Willo is more value to us than what we could get for him.

I would, however seriously consider trading Cuningham for Papley if that saved us that first pick. If Papley was at Carlton he would probably replace one of Dow (Deluca this week), Gibbons or Kennedy. Which of the others would Cuningham replace on exposed form?

 

[Stamos]

Pretty logical that, if we don't have enough decent picks to either use in the draft or trade, we can only get them by trading out players. The catch 22 here is we have to trade out good players to get good picks. If not I struggle to see what we have to trade with.

We have so many young good players. The draft won't be a focus for us the next 2 years, we'll be taking minimal picks.
There's FA as well.

 

[rog1995]

So you think we should use our picks to trade in "quality mature players" and go back into the draft next year. To my knowledge we have Adelaides first this year and no second round pick. We may get one quality player for that so what do we use for any others we may target if we want to get back into next years draft in the first round?

Pretty logical that, if we don't have enough decent picks to either use in the draft or trade, we can only get them by trading out players. The catch 22 here is we have to trade out good players to get good picks. If not I struggle to see what we have to trade with.

I have no idea which players we could draft with 12 (or IMO more likely 10) and I'm aware that we would have to allow development time but I do know there is a far better chance of picking a good one there than in the third round.

I only used Dow as an example and would not be pleased were we to do that, I think he will be a gun and was only thinking outside the square and I do agree that Willo is more value to us than what we could get for him.

I would, however seriously consider trading Cuningham for Papley if that saved us that first pick. If Papley was at Carlton he would probably replace one of Dow (Deluca this week), Gibbons or Kennedy. Which of the others would Cuningham replace on exposed form?

Trade Cunners for Papley? Why. Cunners just need some continuity to really show how good he is. That crumbling goal against the dogs was Judd like.

 

[Blue__Balls]

So you think we should use our picks to trade in "quality mature players" and go back into the draft next year. To my knowledge we have Adelaides first this year and no second round pick. We may get one quality player for that so what do we use for any others we may target if we want to get back into next years draft in the first round?

Pretty logical that, if we don't have enough decent picks to either use in the draft or trade, we can only get them by trading out players. The catch 22 here is we have to trade out good players to get good picks. If not I struggle to see what we have to trade with.

I have no idea which players we could draft with 12 (or IMO more likely 10) and I'm aware that we would have to allow development time but I do know there is a far better chance of picking a good one there than in the third round.

I only used Dow as an example and would not be pleased were we to do that, I think he will be a gun and was only thinking outside the square and I do agree that Willo is more value to us than what we could get for him.

I would, however seriously consider trading Cuningham for Papley if that saved us that first pick. If Papley was at Carlton he would probably replace one of Dow (Deluca this week), Gibbons or Kennedy. Which of the others would Cuningham replace on exposed form?

Depends a lot on needs.

Papley for Adelaide's pick.
Martin for our future second (plus steak-knives?).
Cunningham or Ellis as a free agent.
Cutler or Cox for a third at most (this year or next).
Darcy Cameron or similar for a fourth (this year or next).

Steak-knives to Gold Coast would probably need to be a mature body. I'd be looking at Macreadie or Polson, depending on what GC felt they needed (probably Macreadie). Definitely not someone like Dow or Cunners who are best 22 when fit.

2-3 best 22 players without touching next year's first rounder.

The alternative would be to trade next year's first down for multiple picks. Ala the Stocker trade - future first for a later future first and an early-ish second in some combination. West Coast? They have Sydney's second rounder (probably around 25), so our future first for that and their future first could be worth entertaining. On-trade Sydney's second for Martin instead of next year's first and we'd be going into next year's draft with WC's first and our own second.

Plenty of ways to do it, just need to step back from the assumption that 2-3 quality players = Whitfield, Grundy and Papley.

Should also add that there in no way known that Sydney take Cuningham in a straight swap for Papley.

 

[blue healer]

Trade Cunners for Papley? Why. Cunners just need some continuity to really show how good he is. That crumbling goal against the dogs was Judd like.

I have no wish to get into a discussion wherein I can be accused of bashing our players (probably already there now) but one crumbing Juddlike goal does not make him Judd.

I've had 2 "holes in one" but I'm a very, very long way from being a top class golfer.

Don't expect to get universal agreement but if I could get Papley for Cuningham I would jump at it, but that's personal opinion.

 

[blue healer]

Depends a lot on needs.

Papley for Adelaide's pick.
Martin for our future second (plus steak-knives?).
Cunningham or Ellis as a free agent.
Cutler or Cox for a third at most (this year or next).
Darcy Cameron or similar for a fourth (this year or next).

Steak-knives to Gold Coast would probably need to be a mature body. I'd be looking at Macreadie or Polson, depending on what GC felt they needed (probably Macreadie). Definitely not someone like Dow or Cunners who are best 22 when fit.

2-3 best 22 players without touching next year's first rounder.

The alternative would be to trade next year's first down for multiple picks. Ala the Stocker trade - future first for a later future first and an early-ish second in some combination. West Coast? They have Sydney's second rounder (probably around 25), so our future first for that and their future first could be worth entertaining. On-trade Sydney's second for Martin instead of next year's first and we'd be going into next year's draft with WC's first and our own second.

Plenty of ways to do it, just need to step back from the assumption that 2-3 quality players = Whitfield, Grundy and Papley.

Should also add that there in no way known that Sydney take Cuningham in a straight swap for Papley.

I do agree with your last sentence BTW, not even sure Adelaides first would get us a contracted Papley.

As for you other propositions, I don't even try to run different scenarios as i have very little idea of how the clubs value their players, but they look alright.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I do agree with your last sentence BTW, not even sure Adelaides first would get us a contracted Papley.

As for you other propositions, I don't even try to run different scenarios as i have very little idea of how the clubs value their players, but they look alright.

Yeah, it's all spitballing based on the out of contract list and who looks an alright fit for us. No idea who, if any, are gettable and would want to come to us.

Taking the names out of it though, it's:

Quality player for Adelaide's first.
Solid player for future second second or downgrade of future first.
Solid player via free agency.
Role/depth players for some late picks.

The core of our best 22 is so young it's going to be a long time before we have to worry about replacing retirees (Simmo, Kreuzer, Murphy, Daisy, Curnow are the only ones approaching that stage, and we've got replacements coming through behind them already). If anything, taking too many more high draft picks might actually make it harder to retain players in 4-5 years time when we've got a list full of blokes in the peak of their careers.

 

[blue healer]

We have so many young good players. The draft won't be a focus for us the next 2 years, we'll be taking minimal picks.
There's FA as well.

I take your point but I think we also have a number of young players that aren't going to make it and like Lucas, Watson and a number of others recently they are not going to be tradeable. If replacing them we are, IMO, better off if we can somehow do it from the pointy end of the draft, however I have no idea how we do this.

Will be nice when we are finally serious players in FA. I'm still hopeful that starts this year with Coniglio.

 

[Soapy V]

We have so many young good players. The draft won't be a focus for us the next 2 years, we'll be taking minimal picks.
There's FA as well.

Agree. We have the young talent and all over the ground. Now is about filling holes and adding established quality

 

[ray8182]

I have no wish to get into a discussion wherein I can be accused of bashing our players (probably already there now) but one crumbing Juddlike goal does not make him Judd.

I've had 2 "holes in one" but I'm a very, very long way from being a top class golfer.

Don't expect to get universal agreement but if I could get Papley for Cuningham I would jump at it, but that's personal opinion.

Cuningham is a nobody relative to papley. Would still need to throw in decent pick like a second rounder.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Soapy V]

Trade Cuningham? Bloody Hell. He will be a gun and brings so many things we don't have. Keep!!!

 

[Mr_Plow]

It has taken time but Cuningham will explode onto the scene in 2020. 23 years old, 2 strong Andrew Russell pre-seasons behind him, long time since soft tissue problems.

It takes time for some players.

Can't wait.

 

[footyfan1978]

I am all for tarring and feathering anyone suggesting trading Cunners. Middle of night outside Princes Park. number two oval. Just my personal opinion though.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I am all for tarring and feathering anyone suggesting trading Cunners. Middle of night outside Princes Park. number two oval. Just my personal opinion though.

I'm torn. I don't want to trade Cunners, but also I'm kinda into getting feathered...

 

[footyfan1978]

I'm torn. I don't want to trade Cunners, but also I'm kinda into getting feathered...

Your flesh will be torn when you try to rip off the feathers. Think long and hard fella...

 

[Pafloyul]

I take your point but I think we also have a number of young players that aren't going to make it and like Lucas, Watson and a number of others recently they are not going to be tradeable. If replacing them we are, IMO, better off if we can somehow do it from the pointy end of the draft, however I have no idea how we do this.

Will be nice when we are finally serious players in FA. I'm still hopeful that starts this year with Coniglio.

Agreed, a lot of what is being proposed here sounds like we are trying to cut corners, if this is truly what it's going to be like, it's no wonder a side like Brisbane is miles ahead of us. We really need to start getting some quality free agents for nothing and be very deliberate about who we trade for rather than simply seeing players as senior depth. I'd also be willing to trade still useful players out for mediocre draft picks rather than taking a couple of kids at the death just because we have to.

 

[bigdog43]

Every time I read Dow getting criticised I think back to this moment at 3.07. He convinced me then and there that he would be a long term player for the club.

 

[blue healer]

I am all for tarring and feathering anyone suggesting trading Cunners. Middle of night outside Princes Park. number two oval. Just my personal opinion though.

Good thing I live in Sydney else I'd be all a'quiver.

 

[footyfan1978]

Good thing I live in Sydney else I'd be all a'quiver.

I was in Sydney the previous weekend.....
I could just go there and ring up hire a crazy mob and get to the task at hand...
Do not push your luck