2020 AFL fixture released

[Senor M]

And you consistently avoid the fact that your question gets answered.

Richmond haven't had to travel to Geelong or Tasmania since they won their first AFL flag and became a big club.

Richmond have definitely played in both Geelong & Tasmania since 1920.

But keep melting-- it's entertaining how pathetic the West Coast Whingers supporters have become.

 

[Lsta062]

Rest assured this fixture is a big fu** you to the eagles by Gillon Hitler for us getting Tim Kelly.

Our fixture is the hardest in the entire league.
It's like they needed reminding that Richmond won the premiership.

Never mind...we will take the flag home again anyways and Gillon might react by reducing our home games to 3 and send us to China and the UK for some games.

fu** you VFL scum.

It doesn’t even look all that hard though from a 2019 perspective:

Round 1: Melbourne (OS) WIN
Round 2: St Kilda (Marvel) WIN
Round 3: Geelong (OS) WIN
Round 4: Port Adelaide (AO) WIN
Round 5: Richmond (OS) WIN
Round 6: Hawthorn (UTAS) LOSS
Round 7: Fremantle (OS) WIN
Round 8: Sydney (OS) WIN
Round 9: Gold Coast (Metricon) WIN
Round 10: GWS (OS) WIN
Round 11: Collingwood (MCG) WIN
Round 12: BYE
Round 13: Essendon (OS) WIN
Round 14: Richmond (MCG) LOSS
Round 15: North Melbourne (OS) WIN
Round 16: Geelong (GMHBA) LOSS
Round 17: Adelaide (OS) WIN
Round 18: Fremantle (OS) WIN
Round 19: Carlton (MCG) WIN
Round 20: Port Adelaide (OS) LOSS
Round 21: Brisbane (Gabba) LOSS
Round 22: Collingwood (OS) LOSS
Round 23: Western Bulldogs (Marvel) WIN

If we look at the same fixtures from last year and reasonably improvise a couple results that were not there, it looks like a 16-6 season and this is not factoring in Tim Kelly’s addition. It’s hard in terms of the travel distance and on paper, but is it really all that hard for West Coast from a 2019 perspective? I don’t think so.

Teams obviously change from year to year meaning that this draw could be extremely tough by the end of 2020, but I think it’s difficulty is overplayed as of 2019.

The one with a really tough draw is Collingwood in my opinion. I think it’s difficulty is underrated and I don’t see a lot of straight forward games for them in their fixture.

 

[FreeTK]

Richmond have definitely played in both Geelong & Tasmania since 1920.

But keep melting-- it's entertaining how pathetic the West Coast Whingers supporters have become.

Ummm, Australian Football League was established in 1990.

 

[FreeTK]

It doesn’t even look all that hard though from a 2019 perspective:

If we look at the same fixtures from last year and improvise a couple that were not there, it looks like a 16-6 season and this is not factoring in Tim Kelly’s addition. It’s hard in terms of the travel distance and on paper, but is it really all that hard from a 2019 perspective? I don’t think so.

Teams obviously change from year to year meaning that this draw could be extremely tough by the end of 2020, but I think it’s difficulty is overplayed as of 2019.

The one with a really tough draw is Collingwood in my opinion. I think it’s difficulty is underrated.

Yeah, I have said all along. I love our fixture. We can get wins over premiership rivals (Richmond/Collingwood) at home and play them as double ups at the MCG, which we play well.

It will be interesting to see how much of an impact the back to back 6 day breaks will have, could potentially drop a game we should win due to fatigue.

Only matches that we are clear underdogs is the two away games to Geelong and Hawthorn.

On paper it looks like a 17-5 or 18-4 win loss record for mine and should see us comfortably top 2.

 

[Senor M]

Ummm, Australian Football League was established in 1990.

Have a look at the Official AFL website:

AFL Premiership Winners - AFL.com.au

In complete chronological order, view the full list of Toyota AFL premiership winners from 1897 to present.

www.afl.com.au

How far back do they count Premiership wins?

You can twist facts or figures anyway you'd like and continue to melt until West Coast next wins a flag, but this is what the offical AFL website states.

 

[FreeTK]

Have a look at the Official AFL website:

AFL Premiership Winners - AFL.com.au

In complete chronological order, view the full list of Toyota AFL premiership winners from 1897 to present.

www.afl.com.au

How far back do they count Premiership wins?

You can twist facts or figures anyway you'd like and continue to melt until West Coast next wins a flag, but this is what the offical AFL website states.

Notice how the page you link to doesn't state "AFL Premiership" on the page banner. That's because flags won before 1990 are not AFL flags.

It literally says on the cup "VFL Premiers " before 1990.

West Coast 4 AFL flags >>> Richmond 2 AFL flags

 

[Grin]

Imagine if the big Vic clubs were treated the same as the others. Instead of just talking about integrity they actually do something. Wow, that would be new and different.

The fat cats in the AFL were having difficulty sleeping and lying straight in bed. Mattress getting too lumpy from the bonuses they pay themselves by favoring the big Melbourne sides over all others.


Love how Tigers supporters refuse to admit how big an advantage their team gets from AFL fixturing. Almost as big as a COLA allowance that the Vics were whinging over and finally got removed.

Well actually West Coast gets 10 genuine home ground advantages, whilst the Tigers only get a handful. But I'm sure you won't let basic facts interfere with your victim narrative.

 

[Forward Press]

Well actually West Coast gets 10 genuine home ground advantages, whilst the Tigers only get a handful. But I'm sure you won't let basic facts interfere with your victim narrative.

Which fixture would you prefer?

Team A - 10 genuine home games against interstate teams, 10 games where you travel out of the state, 2 games against a local rival
Team B - 16 games in your own state (of which maybe 6 are genuine home games), 6 games where you travel out of state

If you were to run this poll amongst people who don't follow AFL, the answer might surprise you.

 

[Senor M]

Notice how the page you link to doesn't state "AFL Premiership" on the page banner. That's because flags won before 1990 are not AFL flags.

It literally says on the cup "VFL Premiers " before 1990.

So you're now heading into "alternative facts" territory.... this melt is getting funnier by the post

 

[Lsta062]

Yeah, I have said all along. I love our fixture. We can get wins over premiership rivals (Richmond/Collingwood) at home and play them as double ups at the MCG, which we play well.

It will be interesting to see how much of an impact the back to back 6 day breaks will have, could potentially drop a game we should win due to fatigue.

Only matches that we are clear underdogs is the two away games to Geelong and Hawthorn.

On paper it looks like a 17-5 or 18-4 win loss record for mine and should see us comfortably top 2.

I don’t see why West Coast can’t get a good record like that.

My biggest problem with them in 2019 was how they didn’t turn up for enough quarters. They obviously had a problem with hunger as reigning Premiers and that was very evident in games that they’d only dominate for one quarter in.

The only onfield concern heading into 2020 would be Josh Kennedy. Don’t know how he would go.

 

[Grin]

Which fixture would you prefer?

Team A - 10 genuine home games against interstate teams, 10 games where you travel out of the state, 2 games against a local rival
Team B - 16 games in your own state (of which maybe 6 are genuine home games), 6 games where you travel out of state

If you were to run this poll amongst people who don't follow AFL, the answer might surprise you.

I'd actually prefer to be the best team in the comp, rather than looking for excuses and conspiracy theories.
But hey, that's just me. Keep in whinging by all means.

 

[Forward Press]

I'd actually prefer to be the best team in the comp, rather than looking for excuses and conspiracy theories.
But hey, that's just me. Keep in whinging by all means.

As usual you deflect away with pointless rhetoric and refuse to answer actual questions relevant to what you say.

You should consider a career in politics.

 

[FreeTK]

So you're now heading into "alternative facts" territory.... this melt is getting funnier by the post

I'm actually not melting. It's not an alternative fact to state that Richmonds 1980 premiership has "VFL Premiers 1980" on it and was won in a state competition called the VFL.

VFL became the AFL in 1990. That was the final piece in the puzzle in transforming the competition into the national competition we know today after the introduction of salary cap, the national draft and interstate travel.

It's pretty obvious that a team winning a state competition pre-AFL full of butchers and labourers working as part time athletes is not really the same thing.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

I'm actually not melting. It's not an alternative fact to state that Richmonds 1980 premiership has "VFL Premiers 1980" on it and was won in a state competition called the VFL.

VFL became the AFL in 1990. That was the final piece in the puzzle in transforming the competition into the national competition we know today after the introduction of salary cap, the national draft and interstate travel.

It's pretty obvious that a state competition full of butchers and labourers working as part time athletes is not really the same thing.

If the AFL changed its name in 2021, would you still count the eagles as having 4 premierships. ?

 

[Senor M]

I'm actually not melting. It's not an alternative fact to state that Richmonds 1980 premiership has "VFL Premiers 1980" on it.

VFL became the AFL in 1990. That was the final piece in the puzzle in transforming the competition into the national competition we know today after the introduction of salary cap, the national draft and interstate travel.

It's pretty obvious that a state competition full of butchers and labourers working as part time athletes is not really the same thing.

When Channel 7 discuss Richmond winning the premiership after the Grand Final--- how many premierships did they mention?

How many premiership trophies are on official AFL merchandise for Richmond when celebrating the 2017 and/or 2019 premierships?

When Damien Hardwick did his speech after 2017-- did he mention it was premiership Cup Number 1 or Number 11?

Your "facts" go against with the established history of the competition and you are completely melting trying to tell me otherwise.

 

[FreeTK]

If the AFL changed its name in 2021, would you still count the eagles as having 4 premierships. ?

You're suggesting that it was a simple name change and not engaging with any of the other aspects of my post that distinguish the VFL from the AFL. The change in name to AFL was simply the final step in introducing a set of measures, primarily introduction of the draft, the salary cap and interstate travel that go along with a professionally run national competition.

 

[Lsta062]

Notice how the page you link to doesn't state "AFL Premiership" on the page banner. That's because flags won before 1990 are not AFL flags.

It literally says on the cup "VFL Premiers " before 1990.

West Coast 4 AFL flags >>> Richmond 2 AFL flags

Yeah VFL Premierships are not AFL Premierships, but that doesn’t mean that they are not relevant.

No matter how the quality of the league was like before the league was named “AFL”, the VFL/AFL Premierships since 1897 were won in the same league, meaning that they count. It’s likely that teams nowadays would crush early 90s teams under the current rules, so does that mean we get rid of those Premierships too? No.

The AFL isn’t a breakaway league from the VFL. It’s just a name change and all the other things like the introduction of the draft and the salary cap etc. are process changes within the same league that used to be known as the VFL.

 

[FreeTK]

When Channel 7 discuss Richmond winning the premiership after the Grand Final--- how many premierships did they mention?

How many premiership trophies are on official AFL merchandise for Richmond when celebrating the 2017 and/or 2019 premierships?

When Damien Hardwick did his speech after 2017-- did he mention it was premiership Cup Number 1 or Number 11?

Your "facts" go against with the established history of the competition and you are completely melting trying to tell me otherwise.

I'm sorry, have I hit a sore point? Who's melting now?

When they are talking about Richmond's Premierships- the caveat is always that is is represented as VFL/AFL or they just say "premierships"

Even the website did not state "AFL Premierships" because 10 of Richmond's 12 flags are from the VFL era.

That is just a fact. Not an alternative. Just a fact.

 

[FreeTK]

Yeah VFL Premierships are not AFL Premierships, but that doesn’t mean that they are not relevant.

No matter how the quality of the league was like before the league was named “AFL”, the VFL/AFL Premierships since 1897 were won in the same league, meaning that they count. It’s likely that teams nowadays would crush early 90s teams under the current rules, so does that mean we get rid of those Premierships too? No.

The AFL isn’t a breakaway league from the VFL. It’s just a name change and all the other things like the introduction of the draft and the salary cap etc. are process changes.

I'm not saying that they don't count. They certainly do. Richmond has 10 VFL Flags and 2 AFL flags = 12 premierships.

Even the AFL quietly agrees with me, as you would see from your mates link to the AFL page where they fail to call the flags AFL flags.

They don't recognise them as AFL flags because they aren't.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

You're suggesting that it was a simple name change and not engaging with any of the other aspects of my post that distinguish the VFL from the AFL. The change in name to AFL was simply the final step in introducing a set of measures, primarily introduction of the draft, the salary cap and interstate travel that go along with a professionally run national competition.

How many flags would you consider the eagles to have ?

 

[Senor M]

I'm sorry, have I hit a sore point? Who's melting now?

When they are talking about Richmond's Premierships- the caveat is always that is is represented as VFL/AFL or they just say "premierships"

Even the website did not state "AFL Premierships" because 10 of Richmond's 12 flags are from the VFL era.

That is just a fact. Not an alternative. Just a fact.

Huh??

You're melting is getting stranger. Claiming that their's caveat's and exclusions to how the AFL calls their premiers. Your claims are completely in contrast to what the AFL itself and the wider AFL industry discusses publicly.

Can you provide any evidence to these so-called "facts"? Or you just going to keep melting and making up your own truths.

 

[Grin]

I'm sorry, have I hit a sore point? Who's melting now?

When they are talking about Richmond's Premierships- the caveat is always that is is represented as VFL/AFL or they just say "premierships"

Even the website did not state "AFL Premierships" because 10 of Richmond's 12 flags are from the VFL era.

That is just a fact. Not an alternative. Just a fact.

I've actually often wondered what year we should count the AFL from.
Is it when Sydney got a team?
Is it when the Eagles or Adelaide or Brisbane joined?
Is it when the VFL changed it's name to AFL?
Is it after GWS and the Giants joined?

In my opinion probably 'Premierships this century' bypasses all of that complexity.

 

[FreeTK]

Huh??

You're melting is getting stranger. Claiming that their's caveat's and exclusions to how the AFL calls their premiers. Your claims are completely in contrast to what the AFL itself and the wider AFL industry discusses publicly.

Can you provide any evidence to these so-called "facts"? Or you just going to keep melting and making up your own truths.

You just posted a link to an official AFL page that omits "AFL" from a roll call of premiership winners . Truth is there are VFL flags (1897-1989) AFL flags (1990-) and Flags (1897-).

For me, I always like to make clear distinction about whether I am talking about flag won in the VFL era or AFL era.

 

[Forward Press]

Huh??

You're melting is getting stranger. Claiming that their's caveat's and exclusions to how the AFL calls their premiers. Your claims are completely in contrast to what the AFL itself and the wider AFL industry discusses publicly.

Can you provide any evidence to these so-called "facts"? Or you just going to keep melting and making up your own truths.

History of Football - AFL.com.au

Australian Football was founded as a way of keep cricketers fit during off-season. The first match was played between Scotch College and Melbourne Grammar in 1858

www.afl.com.au

The Victorian Football League was established in 1896 and the following year the League’s first games were played among the foundation clubs – Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Fitzroy, Geelong, Melbourne, St Kilda and South Melbourne.

In 1908, Richmond and University joined the competition. But after the 1914 season, University left the League. In 1925, Footscray (now the Western Bulldogs), Hawthorn and North Melbourne joined the VFL.

This line-up of 12 clubs would remain unchanged until 1987 when the competition expanded to include the West Coast Eagles and the Brisbane Bears. By 1997, the competition comprised 16 clubs after Adelaide (in 1991), Fremantle (in 1995), and Port Adelaide (in 1997) joined the now Australian Football League

Emphasis added.

Chronology - AFL.com.au

www.afl.com.au

Numerous references to VFL/AFL.

AFL/VFL Records - AFL.com.au

View the greatest records ever set in the history of AFL/VFL.

www.afl.com.au

AFL/VFL Records

Although the point was somewhat clumsily made by FreeTK the reality is that AFL is very different from VFL and although 12 is 12 for sure, and nothing will change that, the 2 AFL premierships by Richmond are very different from the 10 VFL premierships.

 

[FreeTK]

I've actually often wondered what year we should count the AFL from.
Is it when Sydney got a team?
Is it when the Eagles or Adelaide or Brisbane joined?
Is it when the VFL changed it's name to AFL?
Is it after GWS and the Giants joined?

In my opinion probably 'Premierships this century' bypasses all of that complexity.

My opinion is the line of delineation is 1990.

By that stage the competition was rebranded and had positioned itself as a professionally run national competition with a sustainable economic model.