2020 AFL fixture released

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telsor said:
So if Richmond flew to Adelaide and back before and after every home game against all Non Vic clubs, would we be allowed to still play our home games at the MCG?

Perhaps the AFL should charter planes so that all teams must travel for, say, 4 hours before every game?


Don't tell me, WA fans still wouldn't be happy.
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Now you are just being silly.
 
VicBased said:
They do fly the day before, sometimes 2 (for wa teams) but i wonder if they have tried flying, playing same day. I dont know if it has been tried for hour long only flights. google is your friend?
Click to expand...

You're the one suggesting it should be done-- not me.

Why should I google to support your arguments?
 

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telsor said:
No sillier than having Vic teams play home games at the opposing team home ground on a regular basis...As if travel is the only factor in HGA.
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But you are a Richmond supporter so with due respect, what would you know about the difficulties of travel? Listen to Simpson an ex North Melbourne player talking about the difficulty of travel, this is also backed up by high profile ex footy players like carey, brereton etc. Also why WC has a hard time attracting players.
 
VicBased said:
They do fly the day before, sometimes 2 (for wa teams) but i wonder if they have tried flying, playing same day. I dont know if it has been tried for hour long only flights. google is your friend?
Click to expand...
Essendon tried that in the preseason a few years ago. That didn't work out so well
 
VicBased said:
I can only assess on my experience of flying to and from Perth as i have family in Perth and i am knackered when i arrive. If i fly to launceston then it is no problem. I am sure, and i don't know why it is not done, if Adelaide teams fly in the morning they could play in the Arvo if the scheduling is done properly. Vic teams could fly to Tassy and play on the same day, and then even back again. Impossible from WA. To better answer your question though. Any improvement to the Wa teams scheduling has to be better than what they are dealing with now.
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OK
So we've got our fixture basics
Interstate clubs play 11 home games, one away game against the other team from their state and 3 away games at home
That gives them a total of 2 neutral games and 13 home games against interstate opposition. They travel 7 times. 4 times to Melbourne and 3 to other states
To neutralise the disadvantage of playing the Grand final in Melbourne, all of their games there should be at the MCG.

Is that basically all your asking for? Would this make it fair or do you feel that West Coast would still be disadvantaged in comparison to MCG based clubs?
 
Grin said:
OK
So we've got our fixture basics
Interstate clubs play 11 home games, one away game against the other team from their state and 3 away games at home
That gives them a total of 2 neutral games and 13 home games against interstate opposition. They travel 7 times. 4 times to Melbourne and 3 to other states
To neutralise the disadvantage of playing the Grand final in Melbourne, all of their games there should be at the MCG.

Is that basically all your asking for? Would this make it fair or do you feel that West Coast would still be disadvantaged in comparison to MCG based clubs?
Click to expand...
Do you work for the AFL???
 
VicBased said:
But you are a Richmond supporter so with due respect, what would you know about the difficulties of travel? Listen to Simpson an ex North Melbourne player talking about the difficulty of travel, this is also backed up by high profile ex footy players like carey, brereton etc. Also why WC has a hard time attracting players.
Click to expand...

What would YOU know about the difficulties of travel?

Have YOU done a lot of major sporting events lately, flying business class?

Or are you just desperately clinging to comments of people who played before modern physiological techniques were implemented because it suits your agenda, while ignoring all the other elements of HGA because they don't suit you?


As for difficulty attracting players...LOL. Have you got anything to back that up? How hard did you need to twist Kelly's arm?
 

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Lsta062 said:
Me too and I don’t know to be honest. Teams have their own home ground in most leagues that I know of (EPL, NFL etc.) so I don’t know why we have 2 grounds between 9 clubs from the same city. Should have built on their own home grounds over the years to make it a proper ground fit for AFL in my opinion.

Maybe there isn’t enough money in the league like there is in leagues like the NFL and EPL
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IMHO the MCC was streets ahead of the VFL & the AFL have followed the lead.
See http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=15
Docklands grabbed the Bombers & the rest (most) of clubs looked to the AFL, aware they would battle to survive if they were to pay for the facilities being offered at the G &/or Docklands.
The AFL did deals with both venues where many games could not make a profit.
 
telsor said:
No sillier than having Vic teams play home games at the opposing team home ground on a regular basis...As if travel is the only factor in HGA.
Click to expand...

Regular: how often, currently once for the Saints in China.
Is one game a season too much, given many argue the GF FIXturing is no disadvantage for travelling clubs (plane, not bus, tram or train, even chauffeured ... ;)

You might tell some that travel is a factor, some seem to think Collingwood v Melbourne at the G is an away game just as the Gold Coast v Freo is.
 
telsor said:
Fitzroy and Hawthorn became nomads because their home grounds just weren't up to standard and the required upgrades were either too expensive or not acceptable to local councils. This wasn't such a success (initially at least) as they couldn't really get a new 'home' (Hawthorn eventually got one at Waverley, Fitzroy got shafted).
Click to expand...

It was the VFL-AFL's ground rationalisation of the 80's that definitely harmed Fitzroy.

Fitzroy didn't want to move from at least two of their home grounds - both moves were forced upon them, one by the VFL-AFL.

The first move from Brunswick Street Oval was mostly forced by the Fitzroy Cricket Club. In the 1960s the Brunswick Street Oval had very poor facilties. The local council refused to spend any money on the ground and even an offer by Fitzroy to borrow money off the council to upgrade the ground which would be paid back was knocked back by the council.

The wealthier Fitzroy Cricket Club, who controlled the ground also refused to spend any money on the ground and in fact the Fitzroy Football Club paid the Cricket Club to use the ground. Eventually the football rooms were condemned by the local council health officer. At that point the Football Club made a number of approaches to share grounds with Northcote and Preston in the VFA. The football club even suggested that the Fitzroy Cricket Club and the Fitzroy Football Club form one club which was rejected. Eventually the football club had to move and Princes Park was the only alternative. Carlton had had an offer on the table for a couple of years.

Fitzroy eventually moved to the Junction Oval from Princes Park because they were essentially the poor relation in the Princes Park arrangement. At the Junction Oval Fitzroy got a third of the car-parking money for the first ten years and received a non-repayable loan from the Albert Park Trust to spend on the Junction Oval to upgrade it to a VFL standard ground. The Junction Oval had a great surface, and a great Fitzroy atmosphere for home games. Certainly it became a very Fitzroy home ground and Fitzroy became well entrenched in the fourteen seasons they spent there, with a definite "home ground advantage".

By 1984 the VFL was instigating ground rationalisation where clubs had to either share a ground or be solely entrenched at their ground if the facilities were good enough. League policy was that clubs either had to share grounds so that costs and money would be shared more evenly. Richmond went from Punt Road to the MCG, North went from Arden Street to the MCG. Hawthorn and St Kilda went to Waverley. Essendon also had to leave Windy Hill. Fitzroy were forced to leave the Junction Oval because it was considered by the VFL that the facilities were not good enough - for example not enough seating for patrons.

Fitzroy argued unsuccessfully that their facilities were good enough and were prepared to put in more seating. Paul Roos in retrospect considers that Fitzroy being forced to leave the Junction Oval hurt Fitzroy's identity, as well hurt the club financially and was the beginning of the end. Fitzroy decided to go to Victoria Park for the next two seasons because the ground was in Fitzroy's geographical area, as was Princes Park from '87-'93. Neither move was financially beneficial, but as Fitzroy had been refused a move to Waverley and the MCG had enough clubs, it was all that was on offer.

In the case of Victoria Park (1985) and Princes Park (1986-1993), Fitzroy made little to no money from either ground. Carlton's screwing of Fitzroy in relation to Fitzroy's tenancy of Princes Park from 1987-1993, forced the club to look for a better ground deal, despite the opposition of Fitzroy players and fans, who would have preferred to stay at Princes Park.

Not only that in 1992-3 in terms of ground rationalisation, Hawthorn was assisted with its' move to Waverley, by the AFL agreeing to play 22 games per year at Princes Park per year, regardless of whether Fitzroy played there or not.

This decision had three effects:
1) Carlton benefited because they didn't have to enter into any tenancy agreement with any club, because the AFL was going to schedule matches there anyway.
2) Hawthorn benefited because they moved their home ground to the population centre of Melbourne along with the Saints.
3) Fitzroy, which was in the throes of attempting to negotiate a better deal with Carlton (i.e. Ian Collins) for their next tenancy agreement, was left with no bargaining power. In 1993 they played at Princes Park without a tenancy agreement with Carlton. At the end of 1993, Carlton presented Fitzroy with an account for $6,000.

The catalyst for Fitzroy eventually leaving Princes Park and moving to the Western Oval is that the AFL also threatened to sue Fitzroy for $250,000 that had been paid to Fitzroy by CUB as part of a club sponsorship, which included selling CUB's product in the Fitzroy Club Hotel. CUB was the AFL's sponsor and the AFL thought they should have received the money instead of Fitzroy. This was despite the fact that CUB had been a minor sponsor of Fitzroy for over ten years previously.

The AFL even threatened to reduce the dividend to other clubs by the amount Fitzroy received. As such the Lions had to consider a better financial deal at the Western Oval, which in turn alienated some supporters and players. However before 1993, Fitzroy had received nothing from any ground advertising, nothing for catering rights, a small amount for perimeter ground advertising and a small amount for reserved seating.

The Lions were forced to move to the Western Oval because of the significantly better deal offered by Footscray. The Dogs offered all carparking revenue, all reserved seating revenue, all revenue from most advertising space, free access to all corporate facilities and outside the ground catering rights. The Western Bulldogs also loaned Fitzroy the $250,000 demanded from Fitzroy by the AFL because of the CUB sponsorship. Alistair Lynch later said that Fitzroy's forced move to the Western Oval was the major reason why he decided to leave Fitzroy and sign with the Bears. Broderick, Gale, Elliott and Dundas followed Lynch shortly after. Robert Shaw the Fitzroy coach lamented at the time that he'd just lost his next three club captains. Fitzroy fans generally disliked the Western Oval as much of the Fitzroy support base was the inner city and their former recruting zone in the eastern suburbs centered around Bulleen-Doncaster.

In the mid-nineties, when still in the AFL and given their ground sharing woes, Fitzroy was planning a return to the Brunswick Street Oval as their training and admin base. This move had been approved by the Fitzroy Council and the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, but needed $250,000 to removate the Grandstand and build a modern gym over the community rooms. Fitzroy unfortunately couldn't find the extra money, even though they made a club profit each year in 1993, 1994 and 1995.
 
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Obeanie1 said:
Im a born and bred Territorian, never lived in WA.

So I consider myself in the middle and reasonably neutral thanks very much.

You Vics have never gotten over the cup being taken out of Victoria and the fat cats at V/AFL House have been pandering to the big Vic clubs ever since.

Even Richmond since you mob finally got your poo together and became relevant again after spending decades fluffing around and eating your own.
Click to expand...
Not even close to being right... if the Tiges can't win, more than happy to see the cup kept out of the hands of Collingwood, Carlton, Geelong, Essendon, Hawthorn etc.
 
Grin said:
Just trying to be positive.
Again, is the scenario about right? Does it result in fairness?
Click to expand...
That was a joke but it is difficult to convey that in a forum so imagine i said that with a smile on my face:D Your scenario, does it allow for 2 at home and 1 away? It would be about as fair as you could make it if we only played Freo once and the others as Vic teams, then it would be comparative to what the Vics get. Doing the homework on WC travel/Richmond travel as a 74 hour WC to 24 for Richmond the 2 at home and 1 away makes up for that. I would hate to do a comparative with Collingwood who travel even less than Richmond.
 
telsor said:
What would YOU know about the difficulties of travel?

Have YOU done a lot of major sporting events lately, flying business class?

Or are you just desperately clinging to comments of people who played before modern physiological techniques were implemented because it suits your agenda, while ignoring all the other elements of HGA because they don't suit you?


As for difficulty attracting players...LOL. Have you got anything to back that up? How hard did you need to twist Kelly's arm?
Click to expand...
What has it got to do with me as i was talking about Richmond. It is people like you who create fractures in supporter bases with your garbage reply's.
 
Roylion said:
It was the VFL-AFL's ground rationalisation of the 80's that definitely harmed Fitzroy.

Fitzroy didn't want to move from at least two of their home grounds - both moves were forced upon them, one by the VFL-AFL.

The first move from Brunswick Street Oval was mostly forced by the Fitzroy Cricket Club. In the 1960s the Brunswick Street Oval had very poor facilties. The local council refused to spend any money on the ground and even an offer by Fitzroy to borrow money off the council to upgrade the ground which would be paid back was knocked back by the council.

The wealthier Fitzroy Cricket Club, who controlled the ground also refused to spend any money on the ground and in fact the Fitzroy Football Club paid the Cricket Club to use the ground. Eventually the football rooms were condemned by the local council health officer. At that point the Football Club made a number of approaches to share grounds with Northcote and Preston in the VFA. The football club even suggested that the Fitzroy Cricket Club and the Fitzroy Football Club form one club which was rejected. Eventually the football club had to move and Princes Park was the only alternative. Carlton had had an offer on the table for a couple of years.

Fitzroy eventually moved to the Junction Oval from Princes Park because they were essentially the poor relation in the Princes Park arrangement. At the Junction Oval Fitzroy got a third of the car-parking money for the first ten years and received a non-repayable loan from the Albert Park Trust to spend on the Junction Oval to upgrade it to a VFL standard ground. The Junction Oval had a great surface, and a great Fitzroy atmosphere for home games. Certainly it became a very Fitzroy home ground and Fitzroy became well entrenched in the fourteen seasons they spent there, with a definite "home ground advantage".

By 1984 the VFL was instigating ground rationalisation where clubs had to either share a ground or be solely entrenched at their ground if the facilities were good enough. League policy was that clubs either had to share grounds so that costs and money would be shared more evenly. Richmond went from Punt Road to the MCG, North went from Arden Street to the MCG. Hawthorn and St Kilda went to Waverley. Essendon also had to leave Windy Hill. Fitzroy were forced to leave the Junction Oval because it was considered by the VFL that the facilities were not good enough - for example not enough seating for patrons.

Fitzroy argued unsuccessfully that their facilities were good enough and were prepared to put in more seating. Paul Roos in retrospect considers that Fitzroy being forced to leave the Junction Oval hurt Fitzroy's identity, as well hurt the club financially and was the beginning of the end. Fitzroy decided to go to Victoria Park for the next two seasons because the ground was in Fitzroy's geographical area, as was Princes Park from '87-'93. Neither move was financially beneficial, but as Fitzroy had been refused a move to Waverley and the MCG had enough clubs, it was all that was on offer.

In the case of Victoria Park (1985) and Princes Park (1986-1993), Fitzroy made little to no money from either ground. Carlton's screwing of Fitzroy in relation to Fitzroy's tenancy of Princes Park from 1987-1993, forced the club to look for a better ground deal, despite the opposition of Fitzroy players and fans, who would have preferred to stay at Princes Park.

Not only that in 1992-3 in terms of ground rationalisation, Hawthorn was assisted with its' move to Waverley, by the AFL agreeing to play 22 games per year at Princes Park per year, regardless of whether Fitzroy played there or not.

This decision had three effects:
1) Carlton benefited because they didn't have to enter into any tenancy agreement with any club, because the AFL was going to schedule matches there anyway.
2) Hawthorn benefited because they moved their home ground to the population centre of Melbourne along with the Saints.
3) Fitzroy, which was in the throes of attempting to negotiate a better deal with Carlton (i.e. Ian Collins) for their next tenancy agreement, was left with no bargaining power. In 1993 they played at Princes Park without a tenancy agreement with Carlton. At the end of 1993, Carlton presented Fitzroy with an account for $6,000.

The catalyst for Fitzroy eventually leaving Princes Park and moving to the Western Oval is that the AFL also threatened to sue Fitzroy for $250,000 that had been paid to Fitzroy by CUB as part of a club sponsorship, which included selling CUB's product in the Fitzroy Club Hotel. CUB was the AFL's sponsor and the AFL thought they should have received the money instead of Fitzroy. This was despite the fact that CUB had been a minor sponsor of Fitzroy for over ten years previously.

The AFL even threatened to reduce the dividend to other clubs by the amount Fitzroy received. As such the Lions had to consider a better financial deal at the Western Oval, which in turn alienated some supporters and players. However before 1993, Fitzroy had received nothing from any ground advertising, nothing for catering rights, a small amount for perimeter ground advertising and a small amount for reserved seating.

The Lions were forced to move to the Western Oval because of the significantly better deal offered by Footscray. The Dogs offered all carparking revenue, all reserved seating revenue, all revenue from most advertising space, free access to all corporate facilities and outside the ground catering rights. The Western Bulldogs also loaned Fitzroy the $250,000 demanded from Fitzroy by the AFL because of the CUB sponsorship. Alistair Lynch later said that Fitzroy's forced move to the Western Oval was the major reason why he decided to leave Fitzroy and sign with the Bears. Broderick, Gale, Elliott and Dundas followed Lynch shortly after. Robert Shaw the Fitzroy coach lamented at the time that he'd just lost his next three club captains. Fitzroy fans generally disliked the Western Oval as much of the Fitzroy support base was the inner city and their former recruting zone in the eastern suburbs centered around Bulleen-Doncaster.

In the mid-nineties, when still in the AFL and given their ground sharing woes, Fitzroy was planning a return to the Brunswick Street Oval as their training and admin base. This move had been approved by the Fitzroy Council and the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, but needed $250,000 to removate the Grandstand and build a modern gym over the community rooms. Fitzroy unfortunately couldn't find the extra money, even though they made a club profit each year in 1993, 1994 and 1995.
Click to expand...
Great summation and thank you.
 
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