List Mgmt. 2020 Draft (December 9) discussion thread

[dlanod]

Our currently owned picks:

24 - Blake Coleman
43 - Harry Sharp
48 - Henry Smith

Our currently owned 2021 picks:

1st (MEL), 1st (BRI), 3rd (WCE), 3rd (BRI), 4th (MEL), 4th (COL), 5th (BRI)

 

[jackess]

I disagree with raising the draft age. There are plenty of examples of first-year players being AFL ready. Try telling Matt Rowell

18

Matt Rowell

Age

24

Ht

180cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

5star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

that he should've had to wait another year because some other kids might mature more by then... Makes no sense.

And I disagree with kids requesting to not be drafted by interstate teams. If they're asked and state a preference in either direction, fair enough, but to ask interstate teams not to draft you is too far. If you aren't mature enough to enter the draft, you should not enter the draft.

Keeping it the same to suit the minority doesn't make sense

 

[dlanod]

I think it's best if we have a system like American college football where the Rowell-level talents can declare early but most only go into the draft at 19. Allows for a little flexibility.

I don't think that's any of their systems.

It's closest to basketball which used to be like that, got changed so that it's only players at least one year out of high school, and is looking at changing back. They also only have two rounds and can't renominate in future years, which greatly changes the cost/benefit of not being sure if you'll be drafted.

The football draft requires players to be out of high school for three years.

Baseball players can be drafted at any point from high school on, but get a variable signing benefit and don't have to report if they don't want to and can be re-drafted the following year.

 

[Tom14]

I don't think that's any of their systems.

It's closest to basketball which used to be like that, got changed so that it's only players at least one year out of high school, and is looking at changing back. They also only have two rounds and can't renominate in future years, which greatly changes the cost/benefit of not being sure if you'll be drafted.

The football draft requires players to be out of high school for three years.

Baseball players can be drafted at any point from high school on, but get a variable signing benefit and don't have to report if they don't want to and can be re-drafted the following year.

And the football draft requirements basically exist to give US colleges free labour for 3 years and make a heap of money off of it. It certainly makes the players justifiably more focused on their remuneration in their professional careers given how brutal it is as a sport and how short most careers are.

 

[jackess]

If Coleman isn't bid on before 25 and we do want Highmore I wonder if we could trade back and still get him.

Maybe pick 25 for pick 40 and a late 2nd/early third next year

 

[Dalions]

It's something we lack IMO

Darcy Gardiner

27

Darcy Gardiner

Age

30

Ht

192cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.6

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

2.1

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.7

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.1

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.0

1star

would be a 10 times better player if he could take more intercept marks in defence.

 

[jackess]

Darcy Gardiner

27

Darcy Gardiner

Age

30

Ht

192cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.6

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

2.1

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.7

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.1

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.0

1star

would be a 10 times better player if he could take more intercept marks in defence.

Also an issue that his kicking is neat but far from damaging. Taking an intercept mark is good but preferably you could launch an attack from it

 

[Dalions]

Also an issue that his kicking is neat but far from damaging. Taking an intercept mark is good but preferably you could launch an attack from it

By taking an intercept mark it may open up the field a bit more to hit a quick and open option.
He tends to get the ball when the play is a bit more stagnant, and everyone is manned up.

 

[dlanod]

And the football draft requirements basically exist to give US colleges free labour for 3 years and make a heap of money off of it. It certainly makes the players justifiably more focused on their remuneration in their professional careers given how brutal it is as a sport and how short most careers are.

Basketball as well. The NBA is looking at dropping their one year requirement now that NCAA is on the nose generally these days and players are starting to turn professional in Australia or just sit out the year and train instead.

 

[Quigley]

For intercepts we had the following this year:

8th - Andrews
28th - Lester
29th - Gardner
51st - Rich
68th - Payne

FWIW Adams was 48th last year.

I don't have the team stats but I am sticking with the opinion that we would rank fairly highly.

Gardner when he can play a bit lose is quite good at intercept marking and he played looser this year I think given he could when matched up on the bigger guys. The problem I think is that his decision making coming out of defense is not great and he takes too much time to move it on. Marking wise he is fine.

 

[jjami15]

I geninunely think this honesty should be applauded - we know there are quite a few players who aren't willing to move, and it is better to know now than find out in a year.

Applauded?! No, imagine if this becomes the norm. I understand where you are coming from but it’s ridiculous. This is what they sign up for, they now they can go anywhere they are drafted.

 

[jjami15]

Nope.

This is a national competition. If you’re not willing to move, don’t play.

And he’s back just before the draft as well!

 

[M Malice]

I wonder what would be said by the AFL if Riley Thilthorp said he didn't wont to leave Adelaide and move interstate and he hopes the other clubs take that on board, would potentially leave the Crows free to take someone else at 1 and wait for Riley to slide to Adelaide's 2nd.

 

[spotthedog1]

Keeping it the same to suit the minority doesn't make sense

I would vastly disagree that it's a minority. Even if they aren't necessarily first-team ready, they can still be ready to join the professional environment.

I'd also say that increasing the age to suit those who develop later doesn't make sense. I'd like there to be more avenues in for 19-21 year olds, but other than that...

 

[Dalions]

I wonder what would be said by the AFL if Riley Thilthorp said he didn't wont to leave Adelaide and move interstate and he hopes the other clubs take that on board, would potentially leave the Crows free to take someone else at 1 and wait for Riley to slide to Adelaide's 2nd.

Might as well just bring back zones

 

[Quigley]

I think the change for next year is a good step. Increasing the junior competition to under 19s is a good way to keep the kids who are not quite ready in the development programs for another year. Keeping the draft age at 18 though allows those that are ready to start getting paid for the hard work they have put in.

It is always going to be a balance and whichever way it goes it will be advantageous for some and not others. The AFL have moved to make things a bit more balanced and that is good but I really do not think things are as busted as the ABC article makes out.

 

[jackess]

I would vastly disagree that it's a minority. Even if they aren't necessarily first-team ready, they can still be ready to join the professional environment.

I'd also say that increasing the age to suit those who develop later doesn't make sense. I'd like there to be more avenues in for 19-21 year olds, but other than that...

It's not to suit those who eventually become AFL players and especially not for guys like Matt Rowell

18

Matt Rowell

Age

24

Ht

180cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

5star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

who can star from day one; it's to help the clubs get a better formline on draftees, draft players more equipped to move and for the demands of AFL footy and give those who aren't on an AFL list in 4 years time to spend time before being drafted preparing for a life outside footy by learning a trade or studying, etc.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

For intercepts we had the following this year:

8th - Andrews
28th - Lester
29th - Gardner
51st - Rich
68th - Payne

FWIW Adams was 48th last year.

I don't have the team stats but I am sticking with the opinion that we would rank fairly highly.

Gardner when he can play a bit lose is quite good at intercept marking and he played looser this year I think given he could when matched up on the bigger guys. The problem I think is that his decision making coming out of defense is not great and he takes too much time to move it on. Marking wise he is fine.

you may not know this but are those stats specifically intercept marks or possessions classified as intercepts?

 

[youneverknow22]

I geninunely think this honesty should be applauded - we know there are quite a few players who aren't willing to move, and it is better to know now than find out in a year.

This is flat out draft tampering and it perpetuates the notion that Victorian clubs have an advantage in this competition - which they do. I personally hope one day each intestate club tells Victoria and Gil to **** off and start a new competition. I am sick of this entitled state and all of its advantages that it gets.

 

[Quigley]

you may not know this but are those stats specifically intercept marks or possessions classified as intercepts?

I believe it is the latter

 

[BangyBangy]

This is flat out draft tampering and it perpetuates the notion that Victorian clubs have an advantage in this competition - which they do. I personally hope one day each intestate club tells Victoria and Gil to fu** off and start a new competition. I am sick of this entitled state and all of its advantages that it gets. Sorry to any Victorian supporter in here, but sh*t like this is why you are the most hated lot in Australia.

Agree. I'm a Victorian supporter. You have no idea how much i even hate myself. I totally deserve it too.

 

[royboys4eva]

I'm very interested to see how what happens with Kaine Baldwin. Sadly knee injuries have stopped him playing much footy in last 2 years but before that it sounds like he was a very talented forward with great hands.

Some club will surely take a punt on him with a later pick and while it's hard to see him playing senior footy anytime soon he looks like he could be a good project player who in time might repay the faith with some luck on the injury front. If I was a club in the top 8 I would look at him as a project player for the future.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I don't think that's any of their systems.

You're getting too bogged down in the specifics. My point is that with college football most athletes go to the draft at a standard age, but the top talents can go early if they wish.

 

[Ralphy2017]

Looks like we're floating a few more names to keep the guessing game going.

yes agree, few names being floated, I would be surprised if we took Highmore.

 

[dlanod]

You're getting too bogged down in the specifics. My point is that with college football most athletes go to the draft at a standard age, but the top talents can go early if they wish.

If you're referring to that angle with college football, you're definitely getting into the specifics. Most players in college football go as early as they can. Talented players staying for their senior year are the exception. The net result is roughly equivalent to the AFL's changes where most who can expect to be drafted will leave early and then there's an added focus on the year after initial draft eligibility.

The difference is still what I pointed out in my last post - you only get one chance to enter an American league via their drafts, after which they also lose their college eligibility. That down side is what changes it from the "nominate as often you can" AFL system.

If the AFL adopted that (which it won't) you'd see a lot more kids waiting until they're confident they'll be drafted, i.e. maybe when they're more mature and showing more in the state leagues or as 19 year olds in the TAC Cup.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

If you're referring to that angle with college football, you're definitely getting into the specifics. Most players in college football go as early as they can. Talented players staying for their senior year are the exception. The net result is roughly equivalent to the AFL's changes where most who can expect to be drafted will leave early and then there's an added focus on the year after initial draft eligibility.

I feel like you're almost intentionally missing the point here. I've outlined twice now what I want the system to look like and you're deviating into the finer points of college football specifics. I agree the AFL won't remove eligibility from those who nominate but won't get drafted, nor should they.