List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[thylacine60]

and so...............it begins.............

 

[FRUMPY]

Degoey isn't going anywhere

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[BigBreakfast]

I honestly think the Betts situation is as simple as us offering him a job after footy. That job is no longer around because of the footy department cap changes. We will already be losing staff. Eddie probably being asked to do that job while staying on as a player because there is no other way. I doubt if we are really into Williams we are going to go stuffing Betts around too.

As sad as it is the above poster is right, statistically Betts is still our biggest forward weapon. That’s the real worry, not Betts.

How come Rabbits can get ambassador money, yet a player of a Betts experience and track record can’t. Surely there is a process in place to apply for this type of exemption?

 

[THE_GUN]

If we read only this, we wouldn't know whether we're talking about Stocker or Kemp.

Kemp has the better endurance and as you say, both have that lust for the contest, we need.
I watched Stocker play back last year and he seemed a natural. Shame we haven't seen him this year though.

For me - I'd sooner get ourselves a bona fide mid and allow Walsh and Kemp to take on the principle wing roles.
Newnes has been OK...just OK...but not the answer going forward and O'Brien is a mystery, unfortunately.

Still a lot to work through of course but if somehow we can get Stocker and Kemp up to speed next year, I feel they could add something we've been lacking in recent years - Yes..... JustaBattler 's mongrel.

Just out of curiosity why is Stocker back in melbourne and not with the team , Is he injured or another issue
He was in my supercoach team at the start of the year and i was expecting him to get a good amount of games

 

[BigBreakfast]

I think the club should really think hard about a generational transition with this group. I wouldnt be offering a contract to Eddie, would be offering Levi up for trade, and considering the future of Marc Murphy. I think its time.

Stop with the Levi trade. He is a free agent and can do what he likes.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Just out of curiosity why is Stocker back in melbourne and not with the team , Is he injured or another issue
He was in my supercoach team at the start of the year and i was expecting him to get a good amount of games

No-one really knows why but personal reasons are what's listed. ITK's have said there's nothing to worry about and the club are fairly happy with where he's at.

 

[THE_GUN]

No-one really knows why but personal reasons are what's listed. ITK's have said there's nothing to worry about and the club are fairly happy with where he's at.

Dont like to jump to assumptions but that usually doesn't end well

A player the blues should look at from Richmond is Oleg Markov , Think he would be a good fit and little cost

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Dont like to jump to assumptions but that usually doesn't end well

A player the blues should look at from Richmond is Oleg Markov , Think he would be a good fit and little cost

Normally I'd agree but with COVID and the bubble I'm personally giving players a little more leeway with this stuff. It's a crazy, crazy year and as long as he's still working hard at home I'm more than fine with it.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

If we read only this, we wouldn't know whether we're talking about Stocker or Kemp.

Kemp has the better endurance and as you say, both have that lust for the contest, we need.
I watched Stocker play back last year and he seemed a natural. Shame we haven't seen him this year though.

For me - I'd sooner get ourselves a bona fide mid and allow Walsh and Kemp to take on the principle wing roles.
Newnes has been OK...just OK...but not the answer going forward and O'Brien is a mystery, unfortunately.

Still a lot to work through of course but if somehow we can get Stocker and Kemp up to speed next year, I feel they could add something we've been lacking in recent years - Yes..... JustaBattler 's mongrel.

Agree re Stocker, very much see him being the Simmo replacement, especially if he needs a few more pre seasons for proper midfield endurance. Would love his mongrel and kicking back there.

 

[Kruezing]

Degoey isn't going anywhere

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Of course not ... filth would never let him leave ... he’s a genuine match winner ...

 

[bigm386]

It'd certainly improve our side defensively & another option would be to have Kemp play that role.
He's not as good a stopper as Marchbank but will offer more going the other way.

Or we could do something out of the box and play Kemp the midfield prospect in the midfield

 

[bigm386]

We can’t sit on the war chest that we have by underpaying the last few years, it needs to be used this season. I’m not sure Simpson or Kruz going gives us any more money, the club would have known that this year or next would be their last and would have been paying or structuring deals accordingly.

I think another option would be to front end some exisiting contracts to make up the TPP or some of the contracts agreed in principle but waiting for AFL list size/cap to sign off.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

So, despite Papley ruling himself out of the trade market, there's a lot we can do this year to bolster our side.

I'd like to see us bump up our offer to Zac Williams to 800k/season. We need to pay a premium for a free agent of his calibre and imo we can't afford to miss out on him for the sake of 500k over the next 5 years.

I'm also not opposed to put both our 2020 and 2021 1st on the table for the best mid we can get. It's just non-negotiable that we do everything we can to secure a gun mid. There's a lot of talk that 2 firsts is too much for Kelly particularly because he's seen to have "another 5 years max" of top level footy... really? If we win a flag or 2 in the next 5 years are you gonna care then? Because I can tell you, we're most likely going to have to wait about 5 years before our 2020 and 2021 1st rounders "might" come good...

Something like this would be a great result:

RFA -> Zac Williams
UFA -> Isaac Smith
#7 + 2021 1st -> Josh Kelly + #28
#26 -> Alex Witherden
#28 -> Jack Graham
#44 -> draft Henry Walsh or another project ruckman or small forward

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Just out of curiosity why is Stocker back in melbourne and not with the team , Is he injured or another issue
He was in my supercoach team at the start of the year and i was expecting him to get a good amount of games

He posted this:

 

[HARKER]

Something like this would be a great result:

RFA -> Zac Williams
UFA -> Isaac Smith
#7 + 2021 1st -> Josh Kelly + #28
#26 -> Alex Witherden
#28 -> Jack Graham
#44 -> draft Henry Walsh or another project ruckman or small forward

5 players? 5 players straight into our starting 22?

For the club to do that, would strongly suggest that we don't like what we have.
Apart from Williams and Kelly, the rest don't make us particularly better and we still haven't addressed goal-kickers.

 

[FRUMPY]

So, despite Papley ruling himself out of the trade market, there's a lot we can do this year to bolster our side.

I'd like to see us bump up our offer to Zac Williams to 800k/season. We need to pay a premium for a free agent of his calibre and imo we can't afford to miss out on him for the sake of 500k over the next 5 years.

I'm also not opposed to put both our 2020 and 2021 1st on the table for the best mid we can get. It's just non-negotiable that we do everything we can to secure a gun mid. There's a lot of talk that 2 firsts is too much for Kelly particularly because he's seen to have "another 5 years max" of top level footy... really? If we win a flag or 2 in the next 5 years are you gonna care then? Because I can tell you, we're most likely going to have to wait about 5 years before our 2020 and 2021 1st rounders "might" come good...

Something like this would be a great result:

RFA -> Zac Williams
UFA -> Isaac Smith
#7 + 2021 1st -> Josh Kelly + #28
#26 -> Alex Witherden
#28 -> Jack Graham
#44 -> draft Henry Walsh or another project ruckman or small forward

Issac Smith

 

[RAPPA]

Issac Smith

 

[Blue__Balls]

Having close games is a good indicator that a rebuilding is getting better.

So are you saying that our 2020 season has been worse than 2016/2017/2018/2019?

If we don't see improvement further improvement in 2021 then yes I would be concern.

Percentage was always going to be one of the KPI's for the year.

2016 - 79.3%
2017 - 78.2%
2018 - 59.3%
2019 - 84.5%
2020 - 95.6%

We've roughly squared the ledger in close results - 5 and 3 from games with <10pt margin.

Our biggest losing margin for the year was 31pts, with only three other losses by >20pts.

We had two big wins - 52pts over the Bulldogs and 33pts over the Suns.

Compare that to last season.

Biggest losses - 93pts (GWS), 68pts (Geel), 58pts (NM), 41pts (Ess), 33pts (Rich)
Biggest wins - 44pts (WB), 27pts (Ade), 24pts (GC)
Went 2 and 4 in games decided by 10 or less points.


The progression is clear as day.

The frustration for fans has changed. Previously it was "Great, we're getting smashed again", now it's "That one poor quarter killed us".

We're still inconsistent, but the gap between the floor and ceiling is closing.

 

[HARKER]

Would be good if we had a KPD to trade to GWS right now.
Corr is going to North.....Davis held together by tape.....and O'Keefe starts next season as a 31 year old.

All those highly touted midfielders they can't fit in, yet desperately lacking in KPD's....and then even Shaw is 35.
Someone is going to make good with trading them a KPD for overs, unless GWS can manufacture defenders out of the likes of Finlayson or Himmelberg.

So many midfielders, terribly skinny on KPD's and next to no ruckmen. Terrible list management. Lesson to be learned right there.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

5 players? 5 players straight into our starting 22?

For the club to do that, would strongly suggest that we don't like what we have.
Apart from Williams and Kelly, the rest don't make us particularly better and we still haven't addressed goal-kickers.

Witherden can kick... can't say too many in the team are at his level. There will be a question mark around Newman too. Hopefully he can come back in and continue where he left off, but not going to be easy for him. No more Simmo and SPS should be out of the back line as well...

There just aren't any damaging small forwards we can target. Pls don't say Narkle. Lonie might be one but there's quite a few clubs into him and he's not exactly a world beater either. No chance of Charlie Cameron or Liam Ryan.

Graham, unlike most of our mids can actually have an impact up forward. He runs both ways and will eventually push Ed Curnow out.

Smith is obv not a long term prospect... but he can provide more speed and flare while the younger players develop and he could also mentor.. something Murphy can't do...

Whether you like it or not, we are going to have a serious injury or two to some key players. Happens every year to every team and we are no exception. Where's the depth? We don't have much. We're resorting to playing kids, guys that are way past it or guys who are not up to it at AFL level. This will create competition for spots, something we haven't had for a while...

Nothing to do with strongly suggesting we don't like what we have... We need some more players in the 23-26 year old bracket to give the youngsters more time to develop.

 

[Blue__Balls]

5 players? 5 players straight into our starting 22?

For the club to do that, would strongly suggest that we don't like what we have.
Apart from Williams and Kelly, the rest don't make us particularly better and we still haven't addressed goal-kickers.

If we get a top line midfielder like Kelly, then there's no need to take Graham. And not much reason for him to come to us.

I like Graham if our other major signings are at either end of the ground.

 

[FRUMPY]

Percentage was always going to be one of the KPI's for the year.

2016 - 79.3%
2017 - 78.2%
2018 - 59.3%
2019 - 84.5%
2020 - 95.6%

We've roughly squared the ledger in close results - 5 and 3 from games with <10pt margin.

Our biggest losing margin for the year was 31pts, with only three other losses by >20pts.

We had two big wins - 52pts over the Bulldogs and 33pts over the Suns.

Compare that to last season.

Biggest losses - 93pts (GWS), 68pts (Geel), 58pts (NM), 41pts (Ess), 33pts (Rich)
Biggest wins - 44pts (WB), 27pts (Ade), 24pts (GC)
Went 2 and 4 in games decided by 10 or less points.


The progression is clear as day.

The frustration for fans has changed. Previously it was "Great, we're getting smashed again", now it's "That one poor quarter killed us".

We're still inconsistent, but the gap between the floor and ceiling is closing.

All good reading, but alot of those big losses were with Bolton in charge (and the biggest win) - we got rid of him for a reason. No doubt improved but as you stated, its those bad quarters/run ons which were also a problem under teague last year.

 

[The Greek Freak]

Percentage was always going to be one of the KPI's for the year.

2016 - 79.3%
2017 - 78.2%
2018 - 59.3%
2019 - 84.5%
2020 - 95.6%

We've roughly squared the ledger in close results - 5 and 3 from games with <10pt margin.

Our biggest losing margin for the year was 31pts, with only three other losses by >20pts.

We had two big wins - 52pts over the Bulldogs and 33pts over the Suns.

Compare that to last season.

Biggest losses - 93pts (GWS), 68pts (Geel), 58pts (NM), 41pts (Ess), 33pts (Rich)
Biggest wins - 44pts (WB), 27pts (Ade), 24pts (GC)
Went 2 and 4 in games decided by 10 or less points.


The progression is clear as day.

The frustration for fans has changed. Previously it was "Great, we're getting smashed again", now it's "That one poor quarter killed us".

We're still inconsistent, but the gap between the floor and ceiling is closing.

Perfectly summed up. The improvement is definitely there, just need to keep it on that upwards trend

 

[HARKER]

Witherden can kick... can't say too many in the team are at his level. There will be a question mark around Newman too. Hopefully he can come back in and continue where he left off, but not going to be easy for him. No more Simmo and SPS should be out of the back line as well...

There just aren't any damaging small forwards we can target. Pls don't say Narkle. Lonie might be one but there's quite a few clubs into him and he's not exactly a world beater either. No chance of Charlie Cameron or Liam Ryan.

Graham, unlike most of our mids can actually have an impact up forward. He runs both ways and will eventually push Ed Curnow out.

Smith is obv not a long term prospect... but he can provide more speed and flare while the younger players develop and he could also mentor.. something Murphy can't do...

Whether you like it or not, we are going to have a serious injury or two to some key players. Happens every year to every team and we are no exception. Where's the depth? We don't have much. We're resorting to playing kids, guys that are way past it or guys who are not up to it at AFL level. This will create competition for spots, something we haven't had for a while...

Nothing to do with strongly suggesting we don't like what we have... We need some more players in the 23-26 year old bracket to give the youngsters more time to develop.

Witherden is slow, but yes, he can kick. Much sooner put the time into Williamson than clocking up a 350K bill for Witherden.
...but why Williams and Witherden? Williams by a mile for me.

I can see us looking at Graham because of the Richmond connection, but I feel we'd be wrong in doing so.
Yes, he did kick goals, but so did Duigan. He's not a goal-kicker. Much sooner stick with Stocker + Kemp.

Smith? Get rid of Newnes and throw in Smith for a year? Maybe, but that's the deal. We don't need both.

When you trade, you don't trade for players because you think you may have injuries.
You trade for players that will slot into your best 22 from the get go.

Quality and needs over quantity and depth, for me.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

If we get a top line midfielder like Kelly, then there's no need to take Graham. And not much reason for him to come to us.

I like Graham if our other major signings are at either end of the ground.

Our starting midfield still consists of Marc Murphy, Ed Curnow and *insert kids* with only Cripps and Walsh (yes, he's a kid too but he's also an anomaly because of how good he already is) really cementing their credentials as A grade.

There's been sfa development this year. Scratch matches lol. Do you think Dow and LOB are going to come straight in and suddenly play at the level we need from them? They need more time and Cripps needs more support... it's as clear as day...

Kelly, Williams and Graham would completely change that....