List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[GapInIkonPark]

So of our old brigade (before Bolts and SOS) ...
Simpson, Kreuzer, Murphy, Ed, Casboult, Jones, Cripps, Docherty

It looks like we are down to Murphy, Ed, Casboult, Jones, Cripps, Docherty.

There is also Betts.

Mature trades ...
Newman, Newnes, Pitto, Martin, McGovern, Lang


Younger trades
Plowman, Marchbank, Kennedy, Setterfield

Draft
Weitering, Harry, Charlie, Cuningham, JSOS
SPS, Fisher, Macreadie, Williamson, Polson
Dow, O’Brien, TDK
Walsh, Stocker, BSOS, Finbar
Kemp, Philp, Ramsay


Rookies
Gibbo, Cottrell, Owies, Honey, Goddard, Moore


I would:

- Swap Gibbo and Betts.
- Trade McGovern or Casboult if we get a second round pick or if it helps us land say a Caldwell.
- Trade Polson if there are any takers.
- Delist Lang, Finbar, Goddard and Moore.

Charlie and Kemp are already 2 big recruits for Season 2021. Newman and Marchbank are handy.

We need a midfielder with speed and class, who becomes our clear second best (after Cripps). Zac Williams ...

We need to get a better forward pocket than Betts, Honey, Owies ... apparently Papley is off the table.

Stab at best 22 in 2021 with our current list:

Newman. Jones. Plowman.
Williamson. Weitering. Docherty.
Newnes. Ed. Setterfield.
Cuningham. Charlie. Martin.
Fisher. Harry. Casboult.

R. TDK. Cripps. Walsh.
I. JSOS. SPS. Murphy. Kemp.

E. McGovern. Marchbank. Kennedy. Pitto.
Next. Cottrel. Dow. O’Brien. Stocker. Philp. Macreadie.

 

[Kramer1]

I'm actually surprised at why Betts would choose to play on. At best he gives us a serviceable year.

Can't help but feel it would be selfishly motivated though, and we'll be getting more GOTY attempts over team play.

Just to be clear...the all time leader in goal assists is selfish?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I honestly think the Betts situation is as simple as us offering him a job after footy. That job is no longer around because of the footy department cap changes. We will already be losing staff. Eddie probably being asked to do that job while staying on as a player because there is no other way. I doubt if we are really into Williams we are going to go stuffing Betts around too.

As sad as it is the above poster is right, statistically Betts is still our biggest forward weapon. That’s the real worry, not Betts.

 

[HBF]

Eddie still our best offensive player...our best forward pressure player, one of our best leaders. If we had anything like a prospective small forward he was taking minutes from then let's talk...otherwise he's a walk up start.

This is my point as well. Eddie really isn't keeping anyone out of the team, and if he wants to play on next year on less money then he should be able to.

 

[HBF]

Cant believe what i am reading here

Murphy just signed an extension
4/9/2020 · Former Carlton captain Marc Murphy will play on next year after agreeing to a new deal,

Yep. Not many of us are happy with this.
I can only think the club don't want all of our older guys retiring at once.

 

[Gw2_James]

Yep. Not many of us are happy with this.
I can only think the club don't want all of our older guys retiring at once.

Agreed, with kreuz gone and from the reports, simmo too, thats a big chunk of experience gone.

I think our average age is going to be quite abit younger next year presuming we dont bring in any older players.

Next year seems like betts and murph would retire, could probably see cas retiring around then too, so yeah, better to retire them in moderation, instead of all at once and possibly leaving us too young/inexperienced?

 

[Juice030103]

Probably because he has nice manners.

Harry has kicked one more goal. Eddie has given 10 to 1 goal assists.

Harry has not kicked one more goal he’s kicked 5 more and has played less games

 

[HaydossJ]

It's easy to lose sight of our list going forward after an embarrassing and soul-crushing loss. I'm too experiencing feelings of doubt and uncertainty about our list and how Teague and the MC have chosen our team this year. Let's not forget, however, that this season is unlike no other, and it may or may not be an accurate indicator of where we're at as a club and group moving forward. Rumours are suggesting list sizes will be reduced to 40+2. Let's see how this might eventuate:

2020 off-season predictions:

Retire: Kreuzer, Simpson, Betts (?)

Delisted: Kennedy, Lang, Polson, Moore, O'Dwyer, Macreadie, and Goddard

2021 predicted list BEFORE new recruits:

B: Newman Jones Plowman
HB: Docherty Weitering Williamson
C: Walsh Cripps Newnes
HF: Martin McKay McGovern
F: Fisher Curnow Cuningham
R: De Koning Setterfield Curnow
I: Murphy Petrevski-Seton Gibbons Silvagni

E: Pittonet Casboult Marchbank Stocker
R: Dow O'Brien Kemp Philp Ramsay Honey Silvagni Phillips Owies Cottrell

This leaves us with 34+2 (Owies + Phillips), giving us room to bring in 3 players via trade/FA and 3 players via the draft.

Positional list summary:

Key defenders: Jones, Weitering, Silvagni
General defenders: Plowman, Docherty, Williamson, Marchbank
Small defenders: Newman, Petrevski-Seton
Inside midfielders: Cripps, Curnow, Setterfield, Dow, Stocker
Hybrid midfielders: Walsh, Philp
Outside midfielders: Murphy, O'Brien, Ramsay, Cottrell
Utilities: Newnes, Gibbons, Silvagni, Kemp, Casboult
Ruckmen: De Koning, Pittonet
Key forwards: Curnow, McKay, McGovern
General forwards: Martin, Cuningham, Honey, Phillips
Small forwards: Fisher, Owies

List needs:

1 x key defender (via draft)
1 x small defender (Zac Williams)
1 x defensive inside midfielder (Jack Graham?)
1 x hybrid midfielder (first round selection or via trade)
1 x ruckman/key forward (via draft)
1 x small forward (first round selection or via trade)

Future, sustained success is going to be largely dependant on three things:

1) Health and continuity of Curnow, McKay, and McGovern
2) Fixing game plan and connection between midfield and forward line
3) Development of Dow, Stocker, O'Brien, and Kemp OR cutting 'losses' and chasing established premium midfielders to support Cripps, Walsh and Setterfield.

 

[DirkDiggler]

Although I'm skeptical about the DeGoey rumour in the first place, I think we should avoid him anyway. Even if he didn't have those charges hanging over his head, he's not the kind of player we need. Unless he out of nowhere develops the tank to play full-time mid, he will play mostly forward as a lead-up target in an already crowded forward line. How do we fit Curnow, McKay, McGovern/JSOS and DeGoey in the same forward line?

Great player, but we have bigger holes to fill.

Going back a few years ago I was keen for us to grab Dusty when he put himself on the market. Thought he was exactly what we needed, a tough uncompromising player with x factor. A lot of posters here where dismissive... failed the 'character' test, too risky... not what we need.. That worked out well for us!!

 

[Blue__Balls]

This is my point as well. Eddie really isn't keeping anyone out of the team, and if he wants to play on next year on less money then he should be able to.

My humble opinion - that's not a reason to keep him. It's a reason to get serious about recruiting a better option.

Out of contract this year: Daicos (Coll), Langford (Ess), Close (Geel), Narkle (Geel), Lloyd (GWS), Langdon (GWS), Minchington (Haw), Spargo (Mel), Lockhart (Mel), Hannan (Mel), Bedford (Mel), Sparrow (Mel), Woodcock (PA), Aarts (Rich), Lonie (StK), Ronke (Syd),

The bolded are names I think you could plug in round one next year and start to see an immediate impact. They're not all 30+ goal small forwards, but they might not need to be if we can actually keep Harry, Charlie and Jack on the park.

Then you've got the potential for clubs to move on contracted players given the cap/list changes. Stephenson, Flanders, Daniels (GWS), Breust, Neal-Bullen, Rioli, Higgins, Castagna, Baker, Sinclair, Vandermeer - put the feelers out and see if anyone is looking for a cash injection.

We only need two small forwards in any given game. Unless Fisher moves back into the middle (unlikely) then he's got one of those spots. Owies and Honey are fine for depth/development purposes, and hopefully one really makes strides next year. If they don't, though, we just need a good pressure forward who works hard and doesn't blow their chances when they get them. Bonus points if they're able to help organise the forward line and provide some leadership.

 

[DirkDiggler]

It's easy to lose sight of our list going forward after an embarrassing and soul-crushing loss. I'm too experiencing feelings of doubt and uncertainty about our list and how Teague and the MC have chosen our team this year. Let's not forget, however, that this season is unlike no other, and it may or may not be an accurate indicator of where we're at as a club and group moving forward. Rumours are suggesting list sizes will be reduced to 40+2. Let's see how this might eventuate:

2020 off-season predictions:

Retire: Kreuzer, Simpson, Betts (?)

Delisted: Kennedy, Lang, Polson, Moore, O'Dwyer, Macreadie, and Goddard

2021 predicted list BEFORE new recruits:

B: Newman Jones Plowman
HB: Docherty Weitering Williamson
C: Walsh Cripps Newnes
HF: Martin McKay McGovern
F: Fisher Curnow Cuningham
R: De Koning Setterfield Curnow
I: Murphy Petrevski-Seton Gibbons Silvagni

E: Pittonet Casboult Marchbank Stocker
R: Dow O'Brien Kemp Philp Ramsay Honey Silvagni Phillips Owies Cottrell

This leaves us with 34+2 (Owies + Phillips), giving us room to bring in 3 players via trade/FA and 3 players via the draft.

Positional list summary:

Key defenders: Jones, Weitering, Silvagni
General defenders: Plowman, Docherty, Williamson, Marchbank
Small defenders: Newman, Petrevski-Seton
Inside midfielders: Cripps, Curnow, Setterfield, Dow, Stocker
Hybrid midfielders: Walsh, Philp
Outside midfielders: Murphy, O'Brien, Ramsay, Cottrell
Utilities: Newnes, Gibbons, Silvagni, Kemp, Casboult
Ruckmen: De Koning, Pittonet
Key forwards: Curnow, McKay, McGovern
General forwards: Martin, Cuningham, Honey, Phillips
Small forwards: Fisher, Owies

List needs:

1 x key defender (via draft)
1 x small defender (Zac Williams)
1 x defensive inside midfielder (Jack Graham?)
1 x hybrid midfielder (first round selection or via trade)
1 x ruckman/key forward (via draft)
1 x small forward (first round selection or via trade)

Future, sustained success is going to be largely dependant on three things:

1) Health and continuity of Curnow, McKay, and McGovern
2) Fixing game plan and connection between midfield and forward line
3) Development of Dow, Stocker, O'Brien, and Kemp OR cutting 'losses' and chasing established premium midfielders to support Cripps, Walsh and Setterfield.

Maceadie stays. Quality agile talls who are good users of the ball are worth they weight in gold. With KPs need to be more patient. Kennedy still good enough to be traded to a bottom tier club. The emergence of Setters has cut his career short at Carlton imo.

 

[Arr0w]

This is my point as well. Eddie really isn't keeping anyone out of the team, and if he wants to play on next year on less money then he should be able to.

But no one has really been allowed to play that specific role

If you compare Betts to Fisher, Fisher's averages are similar this year.

Unless we bring in a suitable replacement, it won't be an area of decline of we had to use fish in that role

 

[HARKER]

But no one has really been allowed to play that specific role

If you compare Betts to Fisher, Fisher's averages are similar this year.

Unless we bring in a suitable replacement, it won't be an area of decline of we had to use fish in that role

Yeah, we've tried them - Polson, Gibbons, ECurnow, Dow and now Fisher....

If you need a hammer, go buy the hammer.
You may get away with using the wrench, but you'll likely only ruin it and have to go buy that hammer in the end, anyway.

 

[DirkDiggler]

Don't mind retaining Betts in a reduced capacity but only because of the leadership he brings to the team. You always see him chatting to the younger players giving out advice and instructions. You see players gravitate towards him. Never saw that with Simmo or Murphy. You should never underestimate the impact of the personal and professional relationships forged through his on field mentoring. Have him play off the bench but I would prefer we keep hims around.

 

[blue healer]

But no one has really been allowed to play that specific role

If you compare Betts to Fisher, Fisher's averages are similar this year.

Unless we bring in a suitable replacement, it won't be an area of decline of we had to use fish in that role

Struggling to get my head around that last line. Is it a double negative?

Who plays Fisher's role and then the role of that person and so on?

I may be talking through my heart but I've seen a lot more than just goals kicked by him in Eddie's game this year.

I may live to regret it but I'd like to see him get another year as, it seems, we may have committed to.

 

[Arr0w]

Yeah, we've tried them - Polson, Gibbons, ECurnow, Dow and now Fisher....

If you need a hammer, go buy the hammer.
You may get away with using the wrench, but you'll likely only ruin it and have to go buy that hammer in the end, anyway.

Stop living in past Harks, I was referring to this year/now

We find out that Fisher was approached to play as a small forward, that being the case, it makes even less sense that we brought Betts back

Sure, target a small forward, but this year, there were other options rather than recruiting and or playing an out of form aging small forward

 

[Arr0w]

Struggling to get my head around that last line. Is it a double negative?

Who plays Fisher's role and then the role of that person and so on?

I may be talking through my heart but I've seen a lot more than just goals kicked by him in Eddie's game this year.

I may live to regret it but I'd like to see him get another year as, it seems, we may have committed to.

Betts, Murphy, Simmo, Krooz

They won't be around when we are a contender, let's start to play players that may

 

[Just Kreuzing]

This is my point as well. Eddie really isn't keeping anyone out of the team, and if he wants to play on next year on less money then he should be able to.

Surely we can find a role for him as a coach/mentor like Hawthorn are obviously doing with Burgoyne.

The salary cap will just have to fund it instead of the soft cap due to the reduction in soft cap spending.

 

[Aphrodite]

Cant believe what i am reading here

Murphy just signed an extension
4/9/2020 · Former Carlton captain Marc Murphy will play on next year after agreeing to a new deal,

Nothing official from the Club.

 

[HARKER]

Stop living in past Harks, I was referring to this year/now

We find out that Fisher was approached to play as a small forward, that being the case, it makes even less sense that we brought Betts back
Sure, target a small forward, but this year, there were other options rather than recruiting and or playing an out of form aging small forward

There was absolutely no harm in playing Betts this year.
Who did he keep out? Owies? Honey?

Fact was we didn't have anyone better.
Fisher hasn't fared any better than Betts anyway and he's a class above other smalls we used forward....and he didn't want to play forward anyway (surprise, surprise, for a player having their preferred role)

Said it many times already and it will prove itself to be the case - Not all players can adapt to new roles and we'll see this play out even more-so next year, given we have to juggle and find homes for......you know....all those mids.

That's not a complaint per se, as it will be interesting how we manage all our young talent but I do know this; We don't manage them well, we'll ruin some.

 

[blue healer]

Betts, Murphy, Simmo, Krooz

They won't be around when we are a contender, let's start to play players that may

Sorry to quote you but if we are ahead of Brisbane's rebuild as you keep telling us then we are going to be top 4 next year at the least.

If that's the case and Eddie plays on he will be around.

Little bit of tongue in cheek there.

But to go back to my original question, who plays Fishers role if he plays Eddies?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

With Papley letting everyone know he is staying, looking at the rest of the small forwards out of contract there is not really any quality. Unless we want to go overpaying for a contracted player then it’s going to just be a matter of luck that we find a Butler and not another Lang, Sumner etc or hope someone on our list stands up. I’ve been saying for a long time it’s our biggest need but we now are in a position that we might have to make do for another season. Looking at Pickett and Weightman last year I think clubs are now valuing quality small forwards much more highly so we are probably going to have to hope we get lucky to an extent.
Probably best to look at the midfield issues because there are a lot more options available to fix that area this year.

 

[chunkylover53]

They are also 5 years older.....your point is invalid and incorrect.

so you think with Fishers build he will put on 8-10kg over the next 5 years and become an inside midfielder like everyone you just mentioned? rofl coniglio was 81kg when he was drafted.

 

[chunkylover53]

Judged off 1 game and no chance to play his position in a fanciful 2nds. Right...

So his rig didn't look sloppy?

 

[mochacinolatte]

Yep. Not many of us are happy with this.
I can only think the club don't want all of our older guys retiring at once.

Probably, but I like to think its more a supporting/leadership role to help Cripps and Docherty. If you listen to the media how Cripps/Docherty fondly talk about Murphy is mainly him bouncing ideas how to lead a young squad.

Even then I was fine with Murphy playing on as unpopular people may think, he still best 22.