List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Saad is also rated top 50 for turnovers

He averages 90 odd in the league. Less then Perryman, Witherden and Houstan who you mentioned earlier as elite ball users. Turnovers are a very small worry with him

 

[Arr0w]

He averages 90 odd in the league. Less then Witherden and Houstan who you mentioned earlier as elite ball users. Turnovers are a very small worry with him

Witherden dissects passes.

Houston too and can play through the middle

Huge differences

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Even though I see where you’re going here, he misses his target clearly, what he also does is, breaks the game open, run the ball from defensive 50 to a forward 50 entry in a few seconds, totally catches the opposition by surprise, allows his forwards to present to him, kicks to his team mates advantage.

Whilst he misses the target, there is a lot more positives there.

All as I see is a player that runs fast with no game awareness from that footage

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

And it doesn’t matter at all because he has more impact with only handy disposal then players with elite disposal.
Having good disposal at HB doesn’t seem to create scores.

And on the odd chance he does cause a direct turnover (not a misplaced kick that still fell to advantage like the video) it’ll generally be 80m up the field and out of danger.

The positive of being able to break through the zone far outweighs any negatives he brings. Call it one dimensional, call it too predictable, but it’s something we don’t have.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Witherden dissects passes.

Houston too and can play through the middle

Huge differences

Houstan is still a very uncontested player, like Saad.
What benefit does Witherden doing that have if it’s leading to less scores while turning the ball over more often?

 

[DangerousD]

All as I see is a player that runs fast with no game awareness from that footage

Id suggest that if that kick hits the target, then people would be posting it as a highlight of what to expect and be drooling over it. There is only one negative in the clip and that’s not hitting the target, plenty of game awareness in everything else.

Not many players finish top 3 in their clubs BandF three seasons in a row without having games awareness.

 

[Arr0w]

Houstan is still a very uncontested player, like Saad.
What benefit does Witherden doing that have if it’s leading to less scores while turning the ball over more often?

Generally controls the game

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Generally controls the game

I think that can possibly be counteracted by taking safer kicks and playing more players back similar to Geelong. atm to me territory seems to be king and players who can take it without turning it over seem to be vital.
controlling the ball seems just to fill in time (Which we certainly need to do) until the inevitable kick from HB to a contest which has to be won. the game of Zones have made it almost impossible to get around that. This is why most scores aren’t generated from the backline, you have to win a contest again along the line. Running the ball or kicking through the zone doesn’t seem to make any difference at all, atleast statistically you are going to end up with the ball in a contest.

 

[Arr0w]

I think that can possibly be counteracted by taking safer kicks and playing more players back similar to Geelong. atm to me territory seems to be king and players who can take it without turning it over seem to be vital.
controlling the ball seems just to fill in time (Which we certainly need to do) until the inevitable kick from HB to a contest which has to be won. the game of Zones have made it almost impossible to get around that. This is why most scores aren’t generated from the backline, you have to win a contest again along the line. Running the ball or kicking through the zone doesn’t seem to make any difference at all, atleast statistically you are going to end up with the ball in a contest.

I am sure you would concede that Saad normally kicks beyond 40. If he is kicking to a contest and the opposition takes a mark/gathers the ball, it is not considered a turnover, even though he may have had an open target, which his skillset doesn't allow for that accuracy

As a side, we don't struggle to win the ball, or kick long to a contest, yet we fail to hit an open target

That's the difference

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I am sure you would concede that Saad normally kicks beyond 40. If he is kicking to a contest and the opposition takes a mark/gathers the ball, it is not considered a turnover, even though he may have had an open target, which his skillset doesn't allow for that accuracy

As a side, we don't struggle to win the ball, or kick long to a contest, yet we fail to hit an open target

That's the difference

It has to be atleast to a 50/50 contest. Im not sure if there is a stat to show kicks to players marking the ball that have gained territory but it would be good to see. Maybe assisted metres gained would be good for the HB. Maybe assisted inside 50’s.
At the end of the day though the score involvement show that a rebounding HB with elite skills are most likely going to end up kicking to a contest or to another player who is going to kick to a contest, so territory while not creating turnovers is the most important factor because either way you’re going to end up in a contest. He is also rated as elite for inside 50’s so he is taking important ground when he does go and again his score involvement numbers show the ground he takes is breaking teams open as much as anyone and more effectively then the vast majority.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I am sure you would concede that Saad normally kicks beyond 40. If he is kicking to a contest and the opposition takes a mark/gathers the ball, it is not considered a turnover, even though he may have had an open target, which his skillset doesn't allow for that accuracy

As a side, we don't struggle to win the ball, or kick long to a contest, yet we fail to hit an open target

That's the difference

Pretty sure that scenario would still be considered a turnover. But it’d also be considered an effective kick, if the kick to the contest was a 50/50 or to the team mates advantage.

 

[BlueJet]

I don't believe that Saad has a technique issue with his kicking, I feel as though he has a bit of the Yarrans about him in that he tries to do too much and ultimately runs himself into trouble or bangs it long.
If he can be coached to be more selective with both his disposal and his charges upfield he'd be a quality addition for any side, particularly for a side like ours that at times can be locked in our defensive half.
Even with his tendency to bang it long & hope for the best, if Harry/TDK can provide a target deep, our yet to be determined crumbers can have a chance to shine..

 

[Wickzki]

And it doesn’t matter at all because he has more impact with only handy disposal then players with elite disposal.
Having good disposal at HB doesn’t seem to create scores.

It may not create scores for your team but having poor disposal at HB sure as hell creates scores for the opposition.

 

[AT97]

Witherden dissects passes.

Houston too and can play through the middle

Huge differences

I reckon weitering could be that type of player. He hits targets long and short. even the difficult passes when he finds the courage. i believe it’s the next part of his evolution as a footballer, More touches of the ball with difficult options encouraged.

 

[thylacine60]

It may not create scores for your team but having poor disposal at HB sure as hell creates scores for the opposition.

you think because it's late and the season is done for us, people won't notice this accurate, logical, insightful effort? take a bit of a look at yourself, wick, ffs.....

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Jesse hogan for mitch mcgovern, hogan open to a move apparently

Thats a hard nope.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Would like to see Witherden come in to really put pressure on SPS and Stocker to perform. Kemp will be playing off a HBF and I imagine Willo will be looking to push further up the ground. SPS and Stocker with two huge pre seasons would make a monumental difference to the teams woes in the middle of the ground by foot

Call me crazy but it seems as we have been saying this about SPS since the day we drafted him. Just wondering how many more pre seasons he needs for him to live up to the hype on these here pages?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Call me crazy but it seems as we have been saying this about SPS since the day we drafted him. Just wondering how many more pre seasons he needs for him to live up to the hype on these here pages?

Barring some injury setback, next year he's out of excuses as far as I'm concerned. Time to step up, I reckon he will.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Call me crazy but it seems as we have been saying this about SPS since the day we drafted him. Just wondering how many more pre seasons he needs for him to live up to the hype on these here pages?

One Petracca level pre season. Those two are supreme talents, simply dont seem to have the application required to take them to the next level. Im not expecting anything from either of them unless I hear they are training the house down over summer. SPS is more talented than Walsh imo, but Walsh is by far and away the most applied and focused youngster I've ever seen and it shows on field.

Im just saying that if both of those two really cracked down they would make a huge difference to us on field as both are absolutely elite natural talents with great kicking skills... but that doesnt count for squat if they just rock up with the same attitude expecting a different result next year

 

[Gethelred]

And it doesn’t matter at all because he has more impact with only handy disposal then players with elite disposal.
Having good disposal at HB doesn’t seem to create scores.

Good disposal is a critical weight statistic. Having one or two doesn't help you much, although it depends how you leverage it. Having 17 from 22 with good disposal means that you can play keepings off whilst moving the ball forward into attacking positions, and you can attempt plays most wouldn't even consider.

I don't mind Saad. I don't think he's as bad a kick as he looks within Essendon's system; their system is designed to move the ball quickly, usually too quickly to think overmuch or to pinpoint a target. Also, there is absolutely no-one running for him in that clip; he's forced to go to a lead moving from the corridor to the boundary. Who even leads that way?

But I don't know if he'd make the difference for us.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It may not create scores for your team but having poor disposal at HB sure as hell creates scores for the opposition.

Yep if you’re turning it over which I said and Saad doesn’t, he turns is over less then guys like Witherden

 

[bigm386]

This sums up Saad

Spot on.

We need more crappy kicks to McKay's toes and dealing with Dodo is always fun.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Good disposal is a critical weight statistic. Having one or two doesn't help you much, although it depends how you leverage it. Having 17 from 22 with good disposal means that you can play keepings off whilst moving the ball forward into attacking positions, and you can attempt plays most wouldn't even consider.

I don't mind Saad. I don't think he's as bad a kick as he looks within Essendon's system; their system is designed to move the ball quickly, usually too quickly to think overmuch or to pinpoint a target. Also, there is absolutely no-one running for him in that clip; he's forced to go to a lead moving from the corridor to the boundary. Who even leads that way?

But I don't know if he'd make the difference for us.

Obviously we all want our players to have good skills but it’s very clear by the stats that even if you are a good user of the ball from HB it is still unlikely that your possession is going to result in a score anymore then someone like Saad, JJ who can break lines. Along the line somewhere there is going to be a contest, it’s why guys like Curnow have more score involvements then these HB who setup the game, zones kill the flow far more often then not. It all comes back to not turning the ball over while taking field position. The benefit of having a good kick back there is that they can hit a target who then most likely kicks to contest, therefore gaining ground.


Richmond identified this and in three games could go down in history as one of the great sides and maybe I’m wrong but they really don’t seem to be an overly talented side to be called one of the greats.

Also I really wouldn’t say Saad is a poor kick but obviously not elite. I just think his run and gun style can open sides up every bit, if not more then what an elite kick can so as long as he isn’t turning the ball over he is a huge asset.

 

[Sheephead]

How much has he cost the RFC soft cap next season?

You don't want to bring these players into your club. It never ends well.

He’s 20 years old. Don’t know how old you are, but I was F ing up till we’ll into my mid 20’s. I have faith Eddie, Jack, Samo and Jones could straighten him up. Ok my Dow scenario was a bit rich, but he’s the type of HB I would like. Might be a goose off field, but I’m talking on field.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I don't believe that Saad has a technique issue with his kicking, I feel as though he has a bit of the Yarrans about him in that he tries to do too much and ultimately runs himself into trouble or bangs it long.
If he can be coached to be more selective with both his disposal and his charges upfield he'd be a quality addition for any side, particularly for a side like ours that at times can be locked in our defensive half.
Even with his tendency to bang it long & hope for the best, if Harry/TDK can provide a target deep, our yet to be determined crumbers can have a chance to shine..

There’s nothing wrong with his kicking, there isn’t a player in the game who can take on the game like he tries and would be able to consistently hit targets.
Atm our problem is that we have Doc, Williamson, SPS and Weitering who are all good kicks, even Jones and Simpson are fine yet we can’t get through opposition zones. As soon as they try to pinpoint a risky kick we seem to turn it over. Saad and the way he plays is no more risky imo. Even the elite kicks turn the ball over trying to do so as often as he does.
Newman atleast tried this and can be a very, very good kick but was constantly slammed for turning it over.