List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Opine]

If you lay the boot in to a player and reference specifically that he’s only averaging 7.5 disposals a game, then praise and talk up another as being his replacement Who averages 5, you look a little silly.

do you think I just made a statement about someone’s disposal without any reference?

Yet, you've done the very same thing that you're accusing him/her of doing. Why is that?

 

[DangerousD]

His disposal

most of our defenders barely get the ball as is.

jokes aside, do the positives outweigh the negatives? His disposal has still allowed him to make a good fist of playing midfield.

 

[DangerousD]

Yet, you've done the very same thing that you're accusing him/her of doing. Why is that?

What same thing are you talking about?
Let me know what instance you’re referring.

Are there accusations here? We have quotes to verify who says what.

 

[Arr0w]

most of our defenders barely get the ball as is.

jokes aside, do the positives outweigh the negatives? His disposal has still allowed him to make a good fist of playing midfield.

Easier to bang it on the boot in congestion to another contest, don't believe he has the composure or penetration to play that role

 

[Opine]

What same thing are you talking about?
Let me know what instance you’re referring.

Are there accusations here? We have quotes to verify who says what.

I think you also dug the boot into a player; namely JSOS. But just in case you come back with some bullshit, that you were merely bringing up stats, last week you hitched a ride on the back of another poster ridiculing the same poster you were just responding to; accusing him/her of being SOS's mum. You don't like SOS it's pretty clear; even though he's given your team his only begotten sons, recruited a majority of your team, etc. WTF is it with you and SOS; are you the Richmond Bloke?

 

[Gethelred]

Ok ow it’s been mentioned before but what would be the negatives of Ed transitioning to the small lockdown defender role?

He’s a great runner, decent pace, agile but more importantly, he has aggression, he tackles, he has a crack.

His disposal is poor and his pace off the mark is not at an adequate standard to play small defender. He's also not great overhead, so someone like Elliot would stretch him.

In the midfield, his lack of pace is covered by the sheer amount of ground he has to cover, and by the fact that most of the contested mids he tags aren't lightning off the mark. This is not true of a forward line, in which small forwards tend towards being the most dynamic players on the ground in terms of agility and pace off the mark.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

both are restricted on footy wire and the roar

Jeremy Cameron is one of seven restricted free agents in the competition this season and will likely have to fend off extra cash from clubs such as Geelong and Essendon in order to stay, while Williams is an unrestricted free agent.

this was posted on the AFL website yesterday on an article about Cameron and Williams. Though it really wouldn’t surprise me if that is wrong as it’s happened plenty of times in the past

 

[Blue__Balls]

Jack Viney please.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The sooner Ed is pushed out the team the better. Absolute champion of a man and very good contributor to the team but ideally someone like Stocker ups the anti and forces his way into the team over Ed. Same with Murph, same with Simmo, same with all our older players.

Until they get overtaken keep them where they do best, Ed tagging, Simmo off half back etc. Ed isnt a Pendles type who you want for class regardless of position, he's a workhorse. We'll be a better team if someone with the natural talents of SPS, LoB or Stocker break their way into the team

For me I look at someone like Ed and think that he is a hell of a lot better then a lot of other premiership players so it doesn’t really matter if he gets replaced or not. What we need is for our kids to come in and turn into guns not just replace role players with roll players. Unfortunately for us after five years of rebuilding we have only probably brought in Weitering and Martin who are currently playing above average in their position. That’s what needs to change, that has been the plan since day one.

 

[DangerousD]

I think you also dug the boot into a player; namely JSOS. But just in case you come back with some bullshit, that you were merely bringing up stats, last week you hitched a ride on the back of another poster ridiculing the same poster you were just responding to; accusing him/her of being SOS's mum. You don't like SOS it's pretty clear; even though he's given your team his only begotten sons, recruited a majority of your team, etc. WTF is it with you and SOS; are you the Richmond Bloke?

Are you that precious that you perceive any negative conversation about anyone from the Silvagni family as being an attack? When posters advocate for playing Silvagni in the midfield, pointing out his lack of ball finding ability is relevant and in no way a suggestion I don’t like him.

When two posters are discussing the merits of two players in comparison to each other, if one is using lack of ball winning ability to criticise one and then their replacement averages 0.8 possessions a game more, I will bring it up, if they then want to further their argument by making their view based on this seasons stats, which lowers one output, it’s then fair to point out that, by using the same argument, their replacement is now averaging 2 possessions less.

I would be interested to see where I hitched a ride on someone calling RM SOSs mum? I don’t like SOS? Is that because I don’t jump up and down with joy over every decision he made? Disagreeing and discussing decisions and mistakes, is not an indication of not liking someone and not thinking they did good things for the club.

Its ok to think SOS made some mistakes, heaven forbid, try it sometimes, it doesn’t mean you like him any less.

 

[bigm386]

After five years of list upheaval, CEO reveals what's next for Carlton

Carlton CEO Cain Liddle expects the Blues to develop from within after consistent turnover over the past five seasons

www.afl.com.au

So I guess the days of recruiting a KPF we didn't seem to need are gone?

 

[Team DJ]

The issue i see us having at the moment with the veterans. Is that they are playing solid 7/10 football. Maybe pop up for an 8, or drop to a 6. But its just solid, no more no less.

Im talking Murphy Betts Curnow Simpson obviously.

These 7/10 games are stopping us from getting games into Fisher LOB Honey Stoker Dow Philp.

Who might offer a 6/10 game at the moment for the most part, so only slightly less. But is potentially stagnating their development by getting no consistency of matches.

Off season 2020 is time to be ruthless with these players unfortunately, and there should be no reason for Simpson Kreuzer and Betts at a minimum potentially Curnow as well to be on the list in 2021

 

[Juice030103]

In the Cain Liddle article

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The issue i see us having at the moment with the veterans. Is that they are playing solid 7/10 football. Maybe pop up for an 8, or drop to a 6. But its just solid, no more no less.

Im talking Murphy Betts Curnow Simpson obviously.

These 7/10 games are stopping us from getting games into Fisher LOB Honey Stoker Dow Philp.

Who might offer a 6/10 game at the moment for the most part, so only slightly less. But is potentially stagnating their development by getting no consistency of matches.

Off season 2020 is time to be ruthless with these players unfortunately, and there should be no reason for Simpson Kreuzer and Betts at a minimum potentially Curnow as well to be on the list in 2021

Curnow imo has been good. I think the worry is replacing those guys with younger players could easily be the tipping point of us being competitive or not which then could affect everyone’s development. It might get minutes into some of those guys but it will also make Williamson, Weitering, McKay, Cuningham, Setters, SPS job so much harder. We went down that path with Bolton and it clearly hasn’t fast tracked anyone’s development to more then what we would’ve expected anyway.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

In the Cain Liddle article
View attachment 928551

View attachment 928549

Which is spot on and also why Williams would be perfect

 

[CJMB]

I think you also dug the boot into a player; namely JSOS. But just in case you come back with some bullshit, that you were merely bringing up stats, last week you hitched a ride on the back of another poster ridiculing the same poster you were just responding to; accusing him/her of being SOS's mum. You don't like SOS it's pretty clear; even though he's given your team his only begotten sons, recruited a majority of your team, etc. WTF is it with you and SOS; are you the Richmond Bloke?

Settle down, O. You've gone from 0-100 immediately and have jumped to a conclusion. And gone past that and jumped the shark.

Someone was having a go at Gov and their major point was that he's only averaging 7.6 a game.

I responded saying that none of our taller forwards get much ball, and posted the season averages (deducting the early injury games to Mitch and Jack).

It's Levi 9.2, Mitch 8.4* (7.6), Jack 7.5* (5.3), Harry 6.5, Callum 3.0. None of them are getting much and the argument is pretty flawed if someone is saying "Gov doesn't get enough ball, bring in Jack" who technically is getting (marginally) less.

It was about using disposal numbers to discredit one player, however the original poster may not have realized that his argument wasn't really doing his preferred player, or any of our taller types for that matter.

It wasn't about putting the boots into any of our players, but rather highlighting the fundamental flaws in the posters entire argument.

Chill out.

 

[CJMB]

In the Cain Liddle article
View attachment 928551

View attachment 928549

Interesting... I'm going to listen to that podcast now

 

[Opine]

Settle down, O. You've gone from 0-100 immediately and have jumped to a conclusion. And gone past that and jumped the shark.

Someone was having a go at Gov and their major point was that he's only averaging 7.6 a game.

I responded saying that none of our taller forwards get much ball, and posted the season averages (deducting the early injury games to Mitch and Jack).

It's Levi 9.2, Mitch 8.4* (7.6), Jack 7.5* (5.3), Harry 6.5, Callum 3.0. None of them are getting much and the argument is pretty flawed if someone is saying "Gov doesn't get enough ball, bring in Jack" who technically is getting (marginally) less.

It was about using disposal numbers to discredit one player, however the original poster may not have realized that his argument wasn't really doing his preferred player, or any of our taller types for that matter.

It wasn't about putting the boots into any of our players, but rather highlighting the fundamental flaws in the posters entire argument.

Chill out.

I don't believe I jumped unreasonably or arrived at a wrong conclusion prematurely. The incident I referred to occurred last week. The same underlying issue presented again yesterday.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Interesting - wonder if that signifies that Sydney/Papley have made it known that a deal won't be made.

I do think it's the right message mid-season, even if it's a load of shit. The playing group need to see opportunity, and need to believe that they're the ones who have to lift. No "we'll try and fill the holes later" excuses.

I'd still be making a few moves behind the scenes.

Zac Williams and Jack Viney. Not sure either end up moving, not sure either are motivated by money, and both are at clubs in a reasonable position for a run at the flag during our assumed window. But either/or improve us immensely without needing to part with a draft pick. Williams is versatile enough to play mid or back, and gives us that boost of leg speed we're lacking. Viney is hard as a cats head, never takes a backward step, and his disposal is a step up from other "contested" types like Crouch and Wines.

One of those two would be incredible, then manipulate our draft hand to give us the picks we need to secure a couple of likely types such as Witherden, Rioli, Pettrucelle, McLean, etc.

Of the two, I think I'd prefer Viney. From a cultural/attitude perspective, I think he'd have other players stepping up their aggression which would be a very good thing. Williams is one I think could be a bit of a trap if our on-ballers continue their inconsistent efforts, big investment for a bloke who isn't winning his own ball.

People were asking who our "Neale" would be. Viney would fit that to a tee.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I'm probably on my own here but don't see any problem getting Bryce Gibbs back on a Betts type of deal for 2 seasons. He could replace Simpson and we can use his disposal off half-back and reckon he still has a year or two where he could spend some time in the middle.

Rather him than Newnes for example.

 

[skadoosh]

I'm probably on my own here but don't see any problem getting Bryce Gibbs back on a Betts type of deal for 2 seasons. He could replace Simpson and we can use his disposal off half-back and reckon he still has a year or two where he could spend some time in the middle.

Rather him than Newnes for example.

No from me. Purely on the basis that he is too Carltonified (a la Simmo, Murphy). Doesn't and won't play with fire in the belly.

 

[bigm386]

Curnow imo has been good. I think the worry is replacing those guys with younger players could easily be the tipping point of us being competitive or not which then could affect everyone’s development. It might get minutes into some of those guys but it will also make Williamson, Weitering, McKay, Cuningham, Setters, SPS job so much harder. We went down that path with Bolton and it clearly hasn’t fast tracked anyone’s development to more then what we would’ve expected anyway.

I don't disagree. But I feel like when we have gone to pieces this year our senior players have not impacted the swings against us in momentum and if anything have been key contributors through turnovers and poor decisions.

 

[DangerousD]

After five years of list upheaval, CEO reveals what's next for Carlton

Carlton CEO Cain Liddle expects the Blues to develop from within after consistent turnover over the past five seasons

www.afl.com.au

So I guess the days of recruiting a KPF we didn't seem to need are gone?

good stuff, echoes the thoughts of a lot on here, I took it it to mean, hopefully one or two quality inclusions, stability is good.

 

[DangerousD]

Curnow imo has been good. I think the worry is replacing those guys with younger players could easily be the tipping point of us being competitive or not which then could affect everyone’s development. It might get minutes into some of those guys but it will also make Williamson, Weitering, McKay, Cuningham, Setters, SPS job so much harder. We went down that path with Bolton and it clearly hasn’t fast tracked anyone’s development to more then what we would’ve expected anyway.

I love Simmo, but his output is well down on previous years, I’m not sure if it’s a direction from the coaching staff, but he is someone who could be gradually replaced without affecting our competitiveness,

 

[CJMB]

Interesting - wonder if that signifies that Sydney/Papley have made it known that a deal won't be made.

I do think it's the right message mid-season, even if it's a load of sh*t. The playing group need to see opportunity, and need to believe that they're the ones who have to lift. No "we'll try and fill the holes later" excuses.

I'd still be making a few moves behind the scenes.

Zac Williams and Jack Viney. Not sure either end up moving, not sure either are motivated by money, and both are at clubs in a reasonable position for a run at the flag during our assumed window. But either/or improve us immensely without needing to part with a draft pick. Williams is versatile enough to play mid or back, and gives us that boost of leg speed we're lacking. Viney is hard as a cats head, never takes a backward step, and his disposal is a step up from other "contested" types like Crouch and Wines.

One of those two would be incredible, then manipulate our draft hand to give us the picks we need to secure a couple of likely types such as Witherden, Rioli, Pettrucelle, McLean, etc.

Of the two, I think I'd prefer Viney. From a cultural/attitude perspective, I think he'd have other players stepping up their aggression which would be a very good thing. Williams is one I think could be a bit of a trap if our on-ballers continue their inconsistent efforts, big investment for a bloke who isn't winning his own ball.

People were asking who our "Neale" would be. Viney would fit that to a tee.

The comments around moving forward might be true and still involving Papley, he hasn't actually ruled it out, more or less just saying we're not dwelling on the past and are looking forward.

I'd definitely be in discussions with restricted free agents Williams and Viney. Share your sentiments around Crouch and Viney, while Wines is kind of a different conversation as we'd have to trade for him. While all three are inside mids, Viney is the one I'd describe as 'combative', which is something that we don't really have at the moment (aside from perhaps Stocker in time).