List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I hope everyone payed close attention to Zac Williams tonight, Yes he is a great kick however he is not as quick as people think and in my opinion speed especially in our backline is our biggest weakness, 700,000 plus is alot of money for a player who is predominantly a half back flanker having played probably less than 10 games as a full time midfielder.

As for Papley if we pay anything over 1 pick in the early teens we have over paid, talk involving Dekoning or 2 first round picks is ridiculous we should back the recruiters to find a small forward through the draft, If you add mcgovern to papley and Williams we would have roughly 2.1-2.2 million of our salary cap tied up in a forward pocket, a half back flanker and a 3rd/4th forward who barely touches the ball that's not good list management.

A mid with good skills and a half back with speed should be our priorities but not 700,000 plus worth to play half back the easiest position on the ground to play.

Between Martin, Doc and MMG we probably already are paying that much for those types.
The types I 100% agree on but actually thinking of the players is near impossible. All clubs are looking for those types hence why someone like Williams who fits the bill will cost a mint. Any good mid with good skills or a quick HB who has good skills and can defend aren’t coming cheap.

 

[TENACIOUS]

You try being in Plowman's position against each teams most crafty small to mid size forward! We also have one of the slowest midfield who don't get back and help out.

Murphy has become scared and doesn't put his body on the line. And we all know Cripps and Setterfield aren't that quick.

Plowman is playing a whipping boy role and if we were playing more as a team he wouldn't be.

Polson doesn’t have an issue

 

[BlueJet]

IMO a lead up small forward is the least of our concerns, particularly when dealing in early picks, the last two weeks should cement that our ball movement & defence of small/medium forwards are presently our biggest issues.

 

[THE_GUN]

IMO a lead up small forward is the least of our concerns, particularly when dealing in early picks, the last two weeks should cement that our ball movement & defence of small/medium forwards are presently our biggest issues.

Thinking this is about Papley ?

If so i think Papley is more than just a small foward as he seems to drift in and out of the midfield at times and plays very high up and gets a bit of ball across the middle. I think he would have as much impact if not more as Martin has this year and is young enough to play 8+ years
Not sure what more you would want from a pick 6-10 with no risk of bust.

 

[Arr0w]

Balanced mids with footskills and speed, pretty simple

 

[Thehurdle]

One game only, but Polson better than Williams last night. I didn’t see anything that makes Me feel comfortable we should be paying Williams an A grader’s income.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

One game only, but Polson better than Williams last night. I didn’t see anything that makes Me feel comfortable we should be paying Williams an A grader’s income.

Polson is playing pretty well in his role. Many people said he is a joke but he is proving the short sighted wrong.

 

[RPCB]

One game only and for all intents and purposes, Zach Williams is apparently a very good footballer. If we’re going to judge players based on one game then how would other players see Carlton as a potential club of interest when between the 3rd and 4th quarters last week and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters last night, the team only kicked 1 goals. Give me Williams and Papley any day of the week.

 

[smashbox gill]

Finals now out of the question we need to make some changes for the remaining games. Give some games to the kids and plan for the future.
Curnow been great but deserves a rest, Cripps looks injured give him an early break. Murph, Simmo, Betts out as need to look to the future.

B: Polson Macraedie Plow
HB: Willo Weiters Doch
C: LOB Dow Walsh
HF: Cunners Mckay Martin
F: Fish TDK Owies
Foll: Pitt Kennedy Setters
IC: Honey, Cottrell, Philp, SPS

Play Dow in the middle full time, LOB onto a wing, SPS through the middle

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

One game only and for all intents and purposes, Zach Williams is apparently a very good footballer. If we’re going to judge players based on one game then how would other players see Carlton as a potential club of interest when between the 3rd and 4th quarters last week and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters last night, the team only kicked 1 goals. Give me Williams and Papley any day of the week.

Exactly we don’t rate Cripps off the last couple of months so we shouldn’t look at short term form.
In saying that Williams isn’t and has never been a true A grade mid. He has probably ten or so really good career games playing in there. We would be chasing him because he has traits that our players don’t and the short comings of our team really need to be addressed and Williams would go a long way towards that. We need his type desperately. I sound like a broken record but athletic good ball users who can actually get it don’t come cheap.

 

[HARKER]

Impact players - Ready to go best 22 players - Players that make us immediately better.....nothing has changed.

We needed and still need players that grab the game by the throat and play as if their life depends on it. On-field leaders.
With Cripps down and CCurnow and Marchbank not available, we're a little thin of those types right now.

From reports Kemp has that instinct and we have to get Stocker up to speed....somehow.

We really don't need a lot of players....just the right ones....and we have to see real improvements in development. More than we've seen.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Is Z Williams better than Docherty?
In terms of where he'd be ranked on our list.

?

 

[I bleed Blue]

Impact players - Ready to go best 22 players - Players that make us immediately better.....nothing has changed.

We needed and still need players that grab the game by the throat and play as if their life depends on it. On-field leaders.
With Cripps down and CCurnow and Marchbank not available, we're a little thin of those types right now.

From reports Kemp has that instinct and we have to get Stocker up to speed....somehow.

We really don't need a lot of players....just the right ones....and we have to see real improvements in development. More than we've seen.

Next year It's time for a few of these draft recruits to stand up and start dominating. The way Weitering has.

 

[Jorge]

It’s not panic stations. Go back 25 games and we weren’t an AFL standard side. Fast forward 18 months and we were within touching distance of finals with 3 games to go.

Weitering has become an A grader this year
Jack Martin has added plenty
We now know Setterfield will be a good player
We’ve solidified our long term ruck stocks.
Our improvement has come without a dominant Cripps & without Charlie Curnow for the whole season.

Next year we add Charlie Curnow, Brodie Kemp & Caleb Marchbank. Hopefully Papley or Williams.

Desperately need another top line midfielder.

Improvement isn’t linear. We’re heading the right way. Hold on tight.

 

[BlueJet]

Thinking this is about Papley ?

If so i think Papley is more than just a small foward as he seems to drift in and out of the midfield at times and plays very high up and gets a bit of ball across the middle. I think he would have as much impact if not more as Martin has this year and is young enough to play 8+ years
Not sure what more you would want from a pick 6-10 with no risk of bust.

Gday TG,

I was speaking about the position in general, as it is often mentioned on this board that a gun small would cap off our list build.
IMO a quality balanced mid would have a far greater impact on our ability to compete with the heavyweights of the comp on a more consistent basis as our side generally works much harder to transition & deliver the ball inside f50 than the opposition.
Which is not to say of course that Papley or similar wouldn't represent a valuable addition.

 

[AB_Blue]

Balanced mids with footskills and speed, pretty simple

Cunners!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Is this level of play not what everyone expected going into the year? Good improvement, able to hang with the top teams, but fall short to consistently beating them.

But since we've had a few impressive weeks and some people mentioned the "F" word, now everyone's shocked and appalled at our performances and we should trade half the list.

Calm down everyone. Let's take a deep breath.

Am I saying that the past few weeks are fine and acceptable? Absolutely not!

Am I saying that based on the past few weeks we should trade half of our list cos they've been down on form? Hell no!

Are Dow and SPS's development and overall form concerning? Yes, oh god yes.

Should we sell them both for a packet of CC's and a packet of gum when they're 20 and 22 years old respectively? No, oh god no.

Another year of development into our young guns, another good trade period bringing in 1 to 2 stars and a few good role players (Newnes and Pitto were never on our radar and they've been two important players for us this year), a few handy "additions" in Curnow, Kemp, Marchbank and Newman, and we can contend for finals next year, which if I remember correctly was what everyone thought would happen at the start of the year anyway.

Keep the faith.

 

[Broadside]

we may as well persist with SPS as he has no trade value but does have talent. Plan C: try him in the forward line, see if his vision can set up a few points goals for us? I don't see him as a mid, he has rarely been prolific enough.

Keep playing Dow in the centre to see if he can show us something, anything.

Overall we are making gains but to see 2 key planks in our rebuild regress significantly is disheartening.

 

[Stamos]

Exactly we don’t rate Cripps off the last couple of months so we shouldn’t look at short term form.
In saying that Williams isn’t and has never been a true A grade mid. He has probably ten or so really good career games playing in there. We would be chasing him because he has traits that our players don’t and the short comings of our team really need to be addressed and Williams would go a long way towards that. We need his type desperately. I sound like a broken record but athletic good ball users who can actually get it don’t come cheap.

Surely we're after Williams to be a line-breaking defender, not a mid?

 

[Brackets]

Have a look at SPS' footage as a 17 year old:



A far more explosive player. Had hamstring issues that robbed him of most of his final year before the draft, and slipped from being a potential #1 pick. That springiness and explosive play has never really come back. Fix that, and you're looking at a proper winger.

Newman is too slow, fluffs too many critical kicks and doesn't win enough 1v1s against most of his typical opponents. You're playing his offensive capability against his defensive liability. I feel we have a better options on the list (Marchbank, Williamson). He's injury insurance until we get better players through the door, which we should be looking at via Williams, delisted players and the draft. Not best 22, no matter how much someone may turn blue in the face pointing at his metres gained.

Macreadie is worth a shot given his talent level and that he's now fit and confident in his abilities again. Remeber that BSOS is there as well, and they both are about as far progressed as you could ask for a 22 and 20 KPD prospect respectively. I'm happy to lean on them and Marchbank, and start to renew at the position. Would you even play Goddard ahead of him right now?

JSOS is a tall utility already, and he will play inside mid at times if he stays with us, but he'll mostly be in the reserves as a HF/mid option next year if he does.

I rate our list if we're prepared to make some calls about the bottom 40% of it, with too many that we're holding over for moneyball/senior depth purposes. We need a dynamic ruck option to develop and some pace outside and in defence. Cottrell, Newman and Pittonet really don't offer that. Some of the recent late draftees haven't panned out, but that happens.

There's the possibility of one or both of Simpson and Betts retiring, and I don't think we're really put out by that so long as we're prepared to put a lot of effort into developing the forward craft of Fisher, Cuningham and some of our resting mids. Kemp is likely going to be a factor there too given he won't be playing full time mid for at least 18 months. Fisher to his credit is obviously showing some signs in that regard, and I'd like to persist with him.

If we're going to leave names like O'Brien and Marchbank in the reserves as depth, I'd like us to leverage that value to improve our draft hand and bring in some elite outside midfield potential that have enough contested understanding to their game. We need explosive speed, but they need to be able to drive their legs through contact at times.

Thanks for expanding, appreciate the response.

Enjoyed the footage, had no idea he had that burst of speed.

Straight after that was a video showing all his possessions against WB last year. Looked every bit like the player he projected in that pre draft video - was amazing in that game.

 

[TheVapors]

From a limited sample size, Polson has been a breath of fresh air in our backline. It’s good to see someone who is willing to take the game on with some attacking kicking. In two games, Polson’s kicking through the middle of the ground has opened up a few scoring opportunities, including his shot on goal. One thing we haven’t really had all year is a defender who creates attacking opportunities from the backline.

I think SPS was probably earmarked for this role, but he just doesn’t provide it. SPS is a very neat footballer, but he doesn’t really add anything positive to our backline. He’s not a strong defender and, although accurate, his kicks never setup any attacking play. They usually hit a guy lace out who is leading back towards the ball, which is great into the forward 50, but really doesn’t open up play anywhere else on the pitch.

We need to move SPS back into the middle and keep persisting with Polson down back. Hopefully SPS can find some form in the middle, otherwise I’m struggling to see where he fits going forward.

 

[HARKER]

Next year It's time for a few of these draft recruits to stand up and start dominating. The way Weitering has.

That will make us so much better than for any individual/s we may attain by way of trade.

#5 SPS - Looked likely to become a serious player, but gone backwards quickly.
#3 Dow - At this stage looks a shell of the player he was, even in his first year.
#10 O'Brien - Out of sight, out of mind.
#19 Stocker - At this stage....who knows?
#17 Kemp - It's easy to make out he'll be an answer to something, but way too early.
#20 Philp - We don't know.

Six first rounders in need of proper development.
We have the infrastructure in place and sure...covid hasn't helped....but we have to get this right and quickly.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Surely we're after Williams to be a line-breaking defender, not a mid?

Very possible but as the earlier poster said $800-900k for a HB is crazy expensive. He has never been an AA and I don’t think he has even made the squad. Unless we think we can get more out of him playing him somewhere else it would be a fairly risky move for a very good but not elite player.

I’d still pay up for him because of the traits he has we lack but it’s not as an easy call as some would think imo.

 

[fnm_just a man]

?

Yes. I’m sure you’ll get plenty disagreeing, but I’ve watched a lot of both and I’d be taking Williams every day of the week.

 

[fnm_just a man]

People suggesting Saad over Williams is one of the more absurd things I’ve read and reeks of preferring a bit of flash over substance (which pretty much sums up the Bombers) ... pay close attention to what Saad does with the ball. Yes he’s great at running, he’s also a pretty solid performer at throwing the ball on the boot and kicking it sky-high to a contest. On top of that, doesn’t like the physical side of the game.