List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Doro]

I've been going long enough now, to have ironed out some of the kinks in observation, but Setterfield was reading the ball off the hands so well and clearing his arms for a quick disposal, even with Cripps hanging off him. It was of no surprise to me that he was often being singled out by his team-mates, as the player to watch through the pre-season.

Stocker was even stronger and his stoppage work was quality. Poor Walsh didn't stand a chance against him.
I know that Stocker has fitness issues to get right before being released, but Setterfield....?

It's like someone bowling fast in the nets. Means nothing. Setterfield has a bit to work on as far as attitude goes, he's only shown he has what it takes in about five games of AFL to date.

 

[HARKER]

It's like someone bowling fast in the nets. Means nothing. Setterfield has a bit to work on as far as attitude goes, he's only shown he has what it takes in about five games of AFL to date.

Valid point, but when it's clear you're capable of doing something and doing it well, when the eyes of the world aren't upon you.... What's missing when they are?
This is what I'm getting at. Setterfield should be quality.

 

[Blue1980]

Setterfield wasn’t great, but at least we used him in the role he should be used in.

Keep doing that and if he steps up great, if not then we know.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Setterfield wasn’t great, but at least we used him in the role he should be used in.

Keep doing that and if he steps up great, if not then we know.

He applied six tackles tonight. No one on the ground applied more tackles than Setterfield.

His defensive pressure was one of his best attributes when he was drafted. He just needs a bit more time but he's showing really good signs in my opinion.

I think he'll end up being the sort of player who gets 20 disposals, 10 tackles and 1 goal per game once he establishes himself at senior level.

Don't think he's as much of an accumulator as someone like Walsh.

He's the exact type of player we need fit and firing. Really excited to see him develop in the navy blue

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Valid point, but when it's clear you're capable of doing something and doing it well, when the eyes of the world aren't upon you.... What's missing when they are?
This is what I'm getting at. Setterfield should be quality.

I know from my own playing days that when I was playing on ball, I got stuck into the contests, laid a lot of tackles and won a decent amount of ball. But when put on the wing I could never figure out the right approach to the game, wanting to provide an outside option but then not wanting to become a spectator either so often finding myself in no-man's land. I think there's a combative mindset you adopt when you're playing in the guts which is hard to recreate when you're on the wing (though not impossible).

Mitch Robinson talks about the positional play of wing being very specific and highlighted that putting people who played on ball all season in the All Australian team on the wing didn't make sense as they didn't play that position which I think is a fair point. I think Setters would benefit from being given more responsibility at the stoppages but it's hard to break in with Cripps, Ed and Martin doing well against the Cats tonight.

 

[SurreyBlue]

He applied six tackles tonight. No one on the ground applied more tackles than Setterfield.

His defensive pressure was one of his best attributes when he was drafted. He just needs a bit more time but he's showing really good signs in my opinion.

I think he'll end up being the sort of player who gets 20 disposals, 10 tackles and 1 goal per game once he establishes himself at senior level.

Don't think he's as much of an accumulator as someone like Walsh.

He's the exact type of player we need fit and firing. Really excited to see him develop in the navy blue

Just wait until we see Kennedy supporting as well and Stocker bollocking thru the midfield also.
Add Fisher and Dow for the run and our midfield we be the talk of the AFL.
Oh and then we’ll all thank SoS again....

 

[Doro]

Valid point, but when it's clear you're capable of doing something and doing it well, when the eyes of the world aren't upon you.... What's missing when they are?
This is what I'm getting at. Setterfield should be quality.

Think he struggles to bring the necessary intensity every week. As others have said his tackling was very good last night, just needs to start finding more of the pill.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It was really hard to judge Setterfield’s game last night because I don’t actually know where he was playing most of the time. He seems to be out of the play most of the night but then when he does find the ball seems to be playing midfield/wing so you would have expected him to be finding way more of the ball in that role. Newnes is in the same boat. I could be way off but both may be out of the play so often because of some sort of role they are playing for the side. He certainly looked like he played with much better intensity last night and done a couple of things which were very Mundy like which was really exciting but then again only picked up 8 touches when it seems he is playing in a ball following position is very low.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Hately and Caldwell look good. Just saying

 

[Blue1980]

He applied six tackles tonight. No one on the ground applied more tackles than Setterfield.

His defensive pressure was one of his best attributes when he was drafted. He just needs a bit more time but he's showing really good signs in my opinion.

I think he'll end up being the sort of player who gets 20 disposals, 10 tackles and 1 goal per game once he establishes himself at senior level.

Don't think he's as much of an accumulator as someone like Walsh.

He's the exact type of player we need fit and firing. Really excited to see him develop in the navy blue

He was certainly better than he was first 2 rounds, and we have to keep using him in that role.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I think McKay's going through the goalkicking gremlin patch so many gun forwards have gone through over the years. But assuming he fixes it our backline and forwardline look very well placed.

Midfield is still an area we lack enough class.

 

[alfo]

Just having a thought after how our forwards worked so well together last night...

Where does Charlie fit when he comes back?
I think adding another tall in there throws off the balance and with Charlie being so dynamic we might become "buddy conscious". Would love to see Charlie get his body right and have a run in the middle or on the wing "richo" style.

I've been saying this for a while and will continue to say it, SPS isn't a great footballer. Our fans pump him up far too much, he was almost invisible again last night. 5 years in a system and he hasn't shown a lot, only glimpses. I'm hoping Stocker pulls his finger out and takes that HBF spot. SPS just doesn't cut it.

 

[Red Bull]

So, how is life after Simpson Kreuzer Murphy Betts Curnow shaping ?

Kreuzer : Pittonet looking every bit a competitor and TDK back in harness ready to continue his development.

Betts : Hard to replace footballing genius. Owies continues to score goals but have seen nothing of him.
Papley is the obvious target, failing that, Ian Hill could be sounded out.

Curnow : We have to move past Ed as a playmaker now. Still offers value as the dedicated “stopper”.
See Stocker as the replacement here.

Simpson : The warrior definitely approaching the end. Will be exited with the respect due.
SPS is the class we need turning defence into attack and i wonder if O’Brien’s skill set could be deployed in this area.

Murphy : Again, we need to move past Murphy if our climb is to gain momentum.
Dow is the obvious player to take us forward here.

In summary, 4 of our 5 veterans look to have ready made replacements ready to step up and fill the breach.
Betts replacement, a genuine elite goal kicking small forward appears to be our position of need.
If we can address this over the trading period, the retirement of the 5 veterans would definitely not be the worst thing in the world for the team going forward.

 

[Juice030103]

I think this offseason will do us the world of good. If we improve this year then good players are gonna want to come. Historic club on the verge of its first flag in a while will have opposition players wanting to come

 

[9874123]

So, how is life after Simpson Kreuzer Murphy Betts Curnow shaping ?

Kreuzer : Pittonet looking every bit a competitor and TDK back in harness ready to continue his development.

Betts : Hard to replace footballing genius. Owies continues to score goals but have seen nothing of him.
Papley is the obvious target, failing that, Ian Hill could be sounded out.

Curnow : We have to move past Ed as a playmaker now. Still offers value as the dedicated “stopper”.
See Stocker as the replacement here.

Simpson : The warrior definitely approaching the end. Will be exited with the respect due.
SPS is the class we need turning defence into attack and i wonder if O’Brien’s skill set could be deployed in this area.

Murphy : Again, we need to move past Murphy if our climb is to gain momentum.
Dow is the obvious player to take us forward here.

In summary, 4 of our 5 veterans look to have ready made replacements ready to step up and fill the breach.
Betts replacement, a genuine elite goal kicking small forward appears to be our position of need.
If we can address this over the trading period, the retirement of the 5 veterans would definitely not be the worst thing in the world for the team going forward.

Not sure I agree on Stocker replacing Ed, as Ed's major attribute is his endurance, something that Stocker has struggled with and was his biggest issue prior to being drafted and continues to hold him back. This can also be worked on but I'm not sure he'll ever be fit enough to play a run with role, I think if Stocker will cement himself as a full-time mid, it'll be by him doing more damage to the opposition then his opponent is doing to us. I think the dedicated tagger is a position that none of our young mids are right for, but its lucky that its a role that you can find relatively easily in the latter parts of the draft, or trade in ready made.

Also don't think that Dow is a Murphy type. If it will be anyone on our list that replaces him I think Martin is the obvious choice, which is a role we saw a bit of last night and hopefully will continue to see for the rest of the season, with Fisher to rotate and give Martin time forward of the ball. I am a fan of Dow and think he can develop into a good mid, but he'll never be classy enough to play that role.

 

[Red Bull]

Not sure I agree on Stocker replacing Ed, as Ed's major attribute is his endurance, something that Stocker has struggled with and was his biggest issue prior to being drafted and continues to hold him back. This can also be worked on but I'm not sure he'll ever be fit enough to play a run with role, I think if Stocker will cement himself as a full-time mid, it'll be by him doing more damage to the opposition then his opponent is doing to us. I think the dedicated tagger is a position that none of our young mids are right for, but its lucky that its a role that you can find relatively easily in the latter parts of the draft, or trade in ready made.

Also don't think that Dow is a Murphy type. If it will be anyone on our list that replaces him I think Martin is the obvious choice, which is a role we saw a bit of last night and hopefully will continue to see for the rest of the season, with Fisher to rotate and give Martin time forward of the ball. I am a fan of Dow and think he can develop into a good mid, but he'll never be classy enough to play that role.

Was more relating a strong physical contribution re the Stocker/Curnow replacement.
Obviously Curnow has better endurance but Stocker far superior disposal.
No idea if he is capable of applying the clamps, time will tell i guess.
Agree Dow is not a Murphy type.
I do though see Dow as the replacement as starting rover.
His explosive power is something i look forward to once he is comfortable in his boots.
Pittonet/TDK and Cripps, Stocker, Dow is a very powerful combination.
Martin and possibly Kemp/Philp add even more explosive power to the midfield.

 

[Blue1980]

I think McKay's going through the goalkicking gremlin patch so many gun forwards have gone through over the years. But assuming he fixes it our backline and forwardline look very well placed.

Midfield is still an area we lack enough class.

Agree re McKay but he is great covering ground and providing a target.

Wonder if that’s the trend, fitness goes up, goal kicking goes down, at least initially.

 

[9874123]

Was more relating a strong physical contribution re the Stocker/Curnow replacement.
Obviously Curnow has better endurance but Stocker far superior disposal.
No idea if he is capable of applying the clamps, time will tell i guess.
Agree Dow is not a Murphy type.
I do though see Dow as the replacement as starting rover.
His explosive power is something i look forward to once he is comfortable in his boots.
Pittonet/TDK and Cripps, Stocker, Dow is a very powerful combination.
Martin and possibly Kemp/Philp add even more explosive power to the midfield.

The thing that I find most interesting in the future midfield rotation is how the coaches want to use Cripps, Kemp and Setterfield, all of those being over 190cm. What I see is them physically dominating and creating the spaces for the explosiveness of Dow and Philp to be used to the fullest effect. I would like to see Dow look at Lachie Neale's tape, if he could add that consistent ball winning, while still retaining that burst out of packs, then it just creates a nightmare for the opposition. I think the coaches have been drafting and trading with the intent of lining up at every stoppage more or less like this:

-One 190cm+ 90kg+ physically dominant player, who can create match up problems when they rotate out and move forward. This is Cripps, Setterfield and Kemp in my mind.

-One skillful/class disposal player who can reliably hit targets up the ground, and lower the eyes to hit leading forwards. This will be Martin, Fisher and Stocker

-One all rounder, who doesn't necessarily have elite disposal, but can accumulate touches and get easy clearances to those on the out side, and make sure the ball doesn't end up in the hands of an opposition player. This is the most nebulous role and is one that will be chopped and changed to fit the personnel in my opinion. This is the spot that will be filled by Dow, Philp, Walsh, Gibbons etc.

Its getting the mix right and not just relying on pure ball winning. If you look at WCE midfield they have a lot of good players but Gaff, Schuey, Kelly and Yeo can be absolute turn over machines at their worst, and I would say all but Gaff fit into the third category of players, which can really create match up problems. If you look at how Collingwood line up, they always have Pendlebury/Sidebottom providing the class, and Adams/Treloar/who evers rotating through being all-rounders. This works because Grundy effectively fufills the physically dominant midfielder role. Brisbanes mix is another good example, with their best look being the 193cm Berry, then Mcluggage/Zorko hurting the opposition with their kicking and Neale/Lyons doing the rest. I think thats what we are looking to emulate.

This is also without mentioning wingers, of which I'm only really sold on LOB playing that role full-time

 

[Blue1980]

Just having a thought after how our forwards worked so well together last night...

Where does Charlie fit when he comes back?
I think adding another tall in there throws off the balance and with Charlie being so dynamic we might become "buddy conscious". Would love to see Charlie get his body right and have a run in the middle or on the wing "richo" style.

I've been saying this for a while and will continue to say it, SPS isn't a great footballer. Our fans pump him up far too much, he was almost invisible again last night. 5 years in a system and he hasn't shown a lot, only glimpses. I'm hoping Stocker pulls his finger out and takes that HBF spot. SPS just doesn't cut it.

I look forward to the problem of fitting Charlie in. We do have a very good and above average marking side, and with Teague we play to those strengths.

Midfield obviously needs work, Martin must stay in there. SPS 4 years in system, has shown more than many others but does need to lift, id agree.

I still think SPS will end up at least a solid best 22 player, probably in our best 10 going forward.

 

[Blue1980]

So, how is life after Simpson Kreuzer Murphy Betts Curnow shaping ?

Kreuzer : Pittonet looking every bit a competitor and TDK back in harness ready to continue his development.

Betts : Hard to replace footballing genius. Owies continues to score goals but have seen nothing of him.
Papley is the obvious target, failing that, Ian Hill could be sounded out.

Curnow : We have to move past Ed as a playmaker now. Still offers value as the dedicated “stopper”.
See Stocker as the replacement here.

Simpson : The warrior definitely approaching the end. Will be exited with the respect due.
SPS is the class we need turning defence into attack and i wonder if O’Brien’s skill set could be deployed in this area.

Murphy : Again, we need to move past Murphy if our climb is to gain momentum.
Dow is the obvious player to take us forward here.

In summary, 4 of our 5 veterans look to have ready made replacements ready to step up and fill the breach.
Betts replacement, a genuine elite goal kicking small forward appears to be our position of need.
If we can address this over the trading period, the retirement of the 5 veterans would definitely not be the worst thing in the world for the team going forward.

Well betts replaced by Papley would be perfect.

 

[Red Bull]

The thing that I find most interesting in the future midfield rotation is how the coaches want to use Cripps, Kemp and Setterfield, all of those being over 190cm. What I see is them physically dominating and creating the spaces for the explosiveness of Dow and Philp to be used to the fullest effect. I would like to see Dow look at Lachie Neale's tape, if he could add that consistent ball winning, while still retaining that burst out of packs, then it just creates a nightmare for the opposition. I think the coaches have been drafting and trading with the intent of lining up at every stoppage more or less like this:

-One 190cm+ 90kg+ physically dominant player, who can create match up problems when they rotate out and move forward. This is Cripps, Setterfield and Kemp in my mind.

-One skillful/class disposal player who can reliably hit targets up the ground, and lower the eyes to hit leading forwards. This will be Martin, Fisher and Stocker

-One all rounder, who doesn't necessarily have elite disposal, but can accumulate touches and get easy clearances to those on the out side, and make sure the ball doesn't end up in the hands of an opposition player. This is the most nebulous role and is one that will be chopped and changed to fit the personnel in my opinion. This is the spot that will be filled by Dow, Philp, Walsh, Gibbons etc.

Its getting the mix right and not just relying on pure ball winning. If you look at WCE midfield they have a lot of good players but Gaff, Schuey, Kelly and Yeo can be absolute turn over machines at their worst, and I would say all but Gaff fit into the third category of players, which can really create match up problems. If you look at how Collingwood line up, they always have Pendlebury/Sidebottom providing the class, and Adams/Treloar/who evers rotating through being all-rounders. This works because Grundy effectively fufills the physically dominant midfielder role. Brisbanes mix is another good example, with their best look being the 193cm Berry, then Mcluggage/Zorko hurting the opposition with their kicking and Neale/Lyons doing the rest. I think thats what we are looking to emulate.

This is also without mentioning wingers, of which I'm only really sold on LOB playing that role full-time

Excellent analysis

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Pretty sure Betts will play 1 more year. Add Papley and Charlie to our forwardline and we look hard to beat up forward.

Feel Hately and/or Caldwell are 2 youngsters on the verge we must chase.

If we brought in those 3, we become a very very good side with serious depth.

Just need Dow and Obrien to go a few more gears

 

[Jimmyonesix]

You've lost me here mate - Wines offers us a considerable upgrade on other similarly slow mids that you've mentioned in Setterfield and JSOS.
Kemp has played predominately off a HBF to date, we hope that he can develop into a regular mid but there are no guarantees there. (TBH I see a bit of Nick Haynes in his game)

I see him replacing Simpson next season and we still need to add Williams So can rotate .. docherty with his knees for me better suited off backline --Williamson Williams Kemp dockerty Jones weitering (plowman -marchbank ) pretty good defence .. Sps to move up ground going on his efforts going back to goal ..

 

[Blue1980]

The thing that I find most interesting in the future midfield rotation is how the coaches want to use Cripps, Kemp and Setterfield, all of those being over 190cm. What I see is them physically dominating and creating the spaces for the explosiveness of Dow and Philp to be used to the fullest effect. I would like to see Dow look at Lachie Neale's tape, if he could add that consistent ball winning, while still retaining that burst out of packs, then it just creates a nightmare for the opposition. I think the coaches have been drafting and trading with the intent of lining up at every stoppage more or less like this:

-One 190cm+ 90kg+ physically dominant player, who can create match up problems when they rotate out and move forward. This is Cripps, Setterfield and Kemp in my mind.

-One skillful/class disposal player who can reliably hit targets up the ground, and lower the eyes to hit leading forwards. This will be Martin, Fisher and Stocker

-One all rounder, who doesn't necessarily have elite disposal, but can accumulate touches and get easy clearances to those on the out side, and make sure the ball doesn't end up in the hands of an opposition player. This is the most nebulous role and is one that will be chopped and changed to fit the personnel in my opinion. This is the spot that will be filled by Dow, Philp, Walsh, Gibbons etc.

Its getting the mix right and not just relying on pure ball winning. If you look at WCE midfield they have a lot of good players but Gaff, Schuey, Kelly and Yeo can be absolute turn over machines at their worst, and I would say all but Gaff fit into the third category of players, which can really create match up problems. If you look at how Collingwood line up, they always have Pendlebury/Sidebottom providing the class, and Adams/Treloar/who evers rotating through being all-rounders. This works because Grundy effectively fufills the physically dominant midfielder role. Brisbanes mix is another good example, with their best look being the 193cm Berry, then Mcluggage/Zorko hurting the opposition with their kicking and Neale/Lyons doing the rest. I think thats what we are looking to emulate.

This is also without mentioning wingers, of which I'm only really sold on LOB playing that role full-time

It’s going to depend on injuries to those younger guys, who can get a good run at it and who comes on, develops and who doesn’t.

There’s no 100% right template and if we end up with more pace than inside grunt or vice versa we need to maximise what we have to greatest effect and look to get what we don’t have.

For example the side could look a lot different if Philp, Dow and lob all come on, and Setterfield and kemp don’t.

Be nice if all of them did, but odds are they won’t all be guns for various reasons.

 

[HARKER]

Pretty sure Betts will play 1 more year. Add Papley and Charlie to our forwardline and we look hard to beat up forward.

Feel Hately and/or Caldwell are 2 youngsters on the verge we must chase.

If we brought in those 3, we become a very very good side with serious depth.
Just need Dow and Obrien to go a few more gears

That moment has passed us by, I feel.
Can't see us handing over any premium value, for developing mids. It makes for an overload of young mids and we have to start getting games into the likes of Dow & Stocker, maybe a little bit of Philp this year and then Kemp the next.....and that's without even raising names Fisher, SPS, Setterfield.
We have to develop what we have first before we 'reach' for more young midfielders.

Same old; Premium 25/6 year old mid and a goal-kicker or two....and if something too good to be true pops up, be ready.
That can change by the end of the year, but alike last year - I don't think it will.