thylacine60
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O slo we're not.......
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List Mgmt. 2020 List Management
- Thread starter Jeremias
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- Nov 27, 2016
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Why would they rip up his contract?
They might renegotiate terms if he extends on top of the original, but it’s well within their right to hold him to it and he plays out the duration in Sydney.
At the end of the day, he signed the contract.
Could be the perfect storm this week. Umps pissed off at Clarkson. Football fraternity pissed off at umps treating Cripps like crap.
Might finally get a 3-vote game from our superstar!
Might finally get a 3-vote game from our superstar!
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- Apr 21, 2018
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Exactly. Growth. Setters , Bam Bam , Cunners . Can midfield. I’m buoyed.
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- Aug 16, 2015
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No, I know you understand the concept, just disagreeing on what’s the best path to take.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Witherden is as slow as they come, penetrating kick and has some skill but he'd add absolutely nothing to our backline, been dropped because of his poor defensive efforts and frankly Weitering is a better kick than him. If we're going after a defender with the ability to run and carry Williams is the obvious look, Laird although nothing like Yarran naturally takes the game on and often goes for a run up the field while also being a solid small defender. In years prior he had more offensive impact being the architect of the crows ball movement in previous years, but since their club has crumbled he's gone back to just playing his role a bit.
Would cost a second rounder or there abouts.
Josh Kelly is the one for me, silk all round and people seem to be forgetting that we have no genuine pace in the middle right now. Setters Cripps and Kennedy at the moment are real pluggers and throw their bodies around but we have nobody to carve up a team when they get into space, other than Cripps but its hard for him being a one man band. Kelly, much like Walsh has been relegated to the wing to make up for his team mates deficiencies, Hopper and Taranto are absolute guns on the inside but neither of them are going to have an impact on the wing so Kelly goes out there.
Same thing has happened with Setters and Walsh. Is Walsh an inside mid? absolutely. But is Setters a wing? not really. Walsh on the wing is less of a net loss for the team compared to Setters. Setters gets to do his best work around the ball and has shown his ability the last month or so, while Walsh is just a freak all round and can still have a great impact while on the wing.
Kelly in 2017 was unbelievable, borderline best in the comp at that stage when he was playing in the guts most of the year. We have the big bodies to create space for him and we have the best pairing in the comp for someone of his nature in Cripps. You can't tag Cripps and let Kelly run amok, and vice versa if you shut down Kelly, Cripps is one on one and we've all seen what happens from there.
I actually loved Arrows idea of a Liam Ryan type, he's in a similar vein to Martin in the forward 50 and we'd just have marking targets running wild down there, but don't see that happening given its his home state, very close with family there and he's at a grand club at the Eagles.
Personally I think we will get more impact in the forward line from within the 4 walls if we bolster our backline and mids. If anyones listens to Dyl and Friends interviewing blokes like Stevie J and Stevie Milne they all say the same thing, all my best work wouldnt have been possible if not for the mids and half backs.
Papley is a superstar and I understand all the hype around him, but theres no reason David Cuningham, Jack Martin and Bob Gibbons wouldnt be able to pick up the slack if we're dominating contested ball and getting the ball inside 50 quickly and with quality.
I think ultimately small forwards are role players and although he would be a huge get for our team, Papley could lock out our opportunities at addressing overall list needs. Playing a 3 pronged tall forward line is not built around the crumbing goal kicking smalls, its about ball movement and feeding quality ball to Harry, Mitch and Charlie. The blokes at their feet simply need to take their opportunities, not necessarily create them like Papley does.
Would cost a second rounder or there abouts.
Josh Kelly is the one for me, silk all round and people seem to be forgetting that we have no genuine pace in the middle right now. Setters Cripps and Kennedy at the moment are real pluggers and throw their bodies around but we have nobody to carve up a team when they get into space, other than Cripps but its hard for him being a one man band. Kelly, much like Walsh has been relegated to the wing to make up for his team mates deficiencies, Hopper and Taranto are absolute guns on the inside but neither of them are going to have an impact on the wing so Kelly goes out there.
Same thing has happened with Setters and Walsh. Is Walsh an inside mid? absolutely. But is Setters a wing? not really. Walsh on the wing is less of a net loss for the team compared to Setters. Setters gets to do his best work around the ball and has shown his ability the last month or so, while Walsh is just a freak all round and can still have a great impact while on the wing.
Kelly in 2017 was unbelievable, borderline best in the comp at that stage when he was playing in the guts most of the year. We have the big bodies to create space for him and we have the best pairing in the comp for someone of his nature in Cripps. You can't tag Cripps and let Kelly run amok, and vice versa if you shut down Kelly, Cripps is one on one and we've all seen what happens from there.
I actually loved Arrows idea of a Liam Ryan type, he's in a similar vein to Martin in the forward 50 and we'd just have marking targets running wild down there, but don't see that happening given its his home state, very close with family there and he's at a grand club at the Eagles.
Personally I think we will get more impact in the forward line from within the 4 walls if we bolster our backline and mids. If anyones listens to Dyl and Friends interviewing blokes like Stevie J and Stevie Milne they all say the same thing, all my best work wouldnt have been possible if not for the mids and half backs.
Papley is a superstar and I understand all the hype around him, but theres no reason David Cuningham, Jack Martin and Bob Gibbons wouldnt be able to pick up the slack if we're dominating contested ball and getting the ball inside 50 quickly and with quality.
I think ultimately small forwards are role players and although he would be a huge get for our team, Papley could lock out our opportunities at addressing overall list needs. Playing a 3 pronged tall forward line is not built around the crumbing goal kicking smalls, its about ball movement and feeding quality ball to Harry, Mitch and Charlie. The blokes at their feet simply need to take their opportunities, not necessarily create them like Papley does.
- Aug 16, 2015
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Plowman is certainly a divisive player on this forum, but I have to say I am happy to read that he has re-signed for 3 years.
I used to cringe when he got the ball, and felt that he was outclassed by virtually every opponent. The post-Covid shutdown period is a small sample size, but I feel he has improved this season and is now a reliable and versatile defender. His play at the death vs NM was a real highlight.
I fluctuate hot and cold with Plowman in nearly every game, he has improved certain parts of his game and I’m more than happy wit his third man up work, his zoning off and him getting the ball and generally using it weLo coming out of defence.
I still get very frustrated with his lack of physicality when attacking an opponent with the ball, hopefully it’s something that can be improved.
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- Nov 7, 2019
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Sure it's in their right, as is often the case, but he's requested a trade so I doubt they continue to both hold him to it while also underpaying him. They don't want one of their best players disgruntled, they'll at least reach a compromise imo.
In other news. I still feel like Judas for renouncing my preseason love for Setters. I did it three times before the rooster crowed.
The first was a preseason game. The second was the first game of the year. The final was the Melbourne game. The prophecy was right all along. You are the second coming. And I denied you.
Please forgive me WillJesus.
The first was a preseason game. The second was the first game of the year. The final was the Melbourne game. The prophecy was right all along. You are the second coming. And I denied you.
Please forgive me WillJesus.
But at the same time the Swans won't just pay him more because he's playing better. He'll have KPI triggers in his deal, like most players. There's still a chance they do it, but I'm guessing that compromise would be built around an extension of sorts. "Add another year or two and we'll add some higher range KPI triggers so if you keep excelling, you'll be rewarded."
He might still say no because he wants to get back to Melbourne and intends to ask each year until it happens. The real question it will he be more open to other clubs this time around? Maybe it starts and he nominates us but if halfway through the trade period it's hit an impasse his manager has a backup plan (although if we hit said impasse I'm guessing the price is pretty high and their might not be many suitors).
If it's another good kick we want out of defence, why not try O'Brien?
I don't see what we'd gain from someone like Witherden when we have the likes of O'Brien & Stocker stagnating in the 2's and it still doesn't address the dynamic exit player we want for the backline.
I don't even know why we're talking about him, regardless of how well he plays this week, in a well structured backline.
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Any word yet on squad size cuts for next year?
Would have thought that and potential draft age changes would need to be announced sooner rather then later.
Would have thought that and potential draft age changes would need to be announced sooner rather then later.
Nup, not yet
But we could do that for the backline also - 'All my best work wouldn't have been possible if not for the mids and half forwards.'
We can see what a difference Martin has made to our forward line this year and to dismiss small/mid forwards as only being as good as the midfielders, is just a little.......not quite right.
It's also not about just being at the feet of the talls. Forwards have to manufacture goals on their own and win their one on ones. Martin can do this, Papley can do this albeit in a different way and neither are expressly crumbing types.
Papley wins many one one ones and is good in close....and if you have a forward that can 'create' then this is a good thing.
The more players that win their one on ones, the better....Tall, medium-sized or small.
- Apr 20, 2006
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Beat me to that. Every defender you ever hear credits the midfield pressure which a lot nowadays is also a result of HF’s.
for me I look at GWS who have an absolute embarrassment of talent through the midfield and are still not a dominant side because they don’t have enough weapons in the front half. In fact they have two who are superior players to any of our forwards but a lack of options brings them undone time and time again. They have tried role players like Lloyd, De Boer ect to try and manufacture goals but a lack of nous keeps bringing them undone.
if I had a choice between Papley and Kelly I’d take Kelly. My worry would be that I think Kelly will cost a fair bit more in picks and $. plus who ploys on the wing out of Kelly, Walsh Setters? If Stocker or Dow come on where do they play?
Personally I think the first player we should be talking to is Williams. If we are a big chance then imo you forget Kelly and go all out for Papley. Those two would complement our side perfectly, if we take Kelly we have to almost try and find a diamond in the rough to fill that forward void because it is extremely hard to think of a good gettable player to play there that we would have any currency left to get.
We might see it eventually, sounds like he's been playing across halfback a bit in the scratch matches (although that might be through necessity with reduced number games).
Provided he can be a accountable defensively, which I think he has shown a little when he's done wing run-roles on guys like Hunter, then it could be a good option to have his running ability and big left boot streaming out of the back line.
Maybe we end up developing some flexible cohesion between O'Brien, Doc, Samo, Willo (Stocker?) as players who can play wing and hbf. Say O'Brien plays as the hbf and runs forward, a guy like Samo could drop back from the midfield to cover his man/space in the zone.
We're talking about Papley for the fact we all but had him last year, but for Essendon making a mistake, so somehow we're still 'connected' to him.
He'd make for a great get but s you say, so would Williams and don't laugh.....but I feel he'd be a better get for us than Kelly.
Maybe I'm factoring in cost, but he's just the type we could do with. I trust the CFC is going hard at him and only kicking tyres with BCrouch.
He'd make for a great get but s you say, so would Williams and don't laugh.....but I feel he'd be a better get for us than Kelly.
Maybe I'm factoring in cost, but he's just the type we could do with. I trust the CFC is going hard at him and only kicking tyres with BCrouch.
I was told on numerous occasions that O'Brien 'will not' be playing in defence and that may yet be proved correct, but somehow I just keep seeing it.
Just seems to me that the wing post may slip away from O'Brien, given the way we're going about rotating our mids for now and with Fisher coming back into the fold soon enough. We'll see.
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- Sep 25, 2013
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No reason why we can’t get both Papley and Williams. We’ve got the picks and we presumably have the space.
I think those two eclipse one Kelly, not that I’d be disappointed with one Kelly, but I don’t necessarily believe he’s gettable anyway.
- Aug 16, 2015
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Of course they could force him, but generally and historically clubs don’t. We did with Gibbs for one season, how do you think it would have gone if we kept him against his will again? Sydney did with Ryan O”Keefe who then re-signed.
Sydney will have to asses their options and decide if keeping players who clearly don’t want to play for you, is good for the club and the clubs culture and the team/team mates.
If we go off Papleys suspected reasons for leaving, that his partner has moved back to Melbourne where she is living and working, whilst he lives in Sydney, how will he respond to the club denying him his request to move home? The Swans have had 12 months notice to look for replacements, how will the player perform if he’s unhappy, how will he perform if his relationship starts to falter due to long distance?
Papley has a contract, Sydney can if they want, keep him there, Papley can also take it easy, call in sick, rock up late, take leave for personal issues, he could make things difficult, not saying he would, but who knows.
Peoples situations change
For Rioli? This year may pan out to be different, but Rioli wouldn't attract a lot of interest for a pick around the 10 - 15 mark.
He's really not that good, nor consistent enough to warrant that sort of currency.
He's hardly even an OK player in a good side and being a premiership player doesn't afford you more currency.
Tell that to Richmond Harks ...
OK...I see your point. If Rioli did wish to leave though...
I'm finding it hard allocating draft picks for players via trade this year.
Usually one would say that player x is a 10-15 pick, with some sort of knowledge what may be available there but this year given we've had no champs and all those FA's and NGA's.....How do you do it?
And while hardly like-for-like, particularly in quality, they did bring in Sam Gray and Lewis Taylor last year which adds an air of inevitability to Papley's departure. That being said, Tom is certainly doing well this year despite the trade attempt failing. Swans may have said we'll entertain offers to get you across and if we're bringing in someone else of a high caliber and we get an offer for you we can't refuse, however if either of those conditions are not met then we'll resume discussions the following year (and following year, and following year...)
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