List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[WalshistheGOAT]

Bit of talk about Alex Pearce being trade bait in the media today. He's a serious KPD when fit and healthy, was an AA lock before he went down last year. Imagining Russel could get him up and going would he be a worthwhile trade option if we can bring in Zac Williams as a FA? 25 years old would be Weiters partner in crime for the forseeable future and would be a good replacement for Jones.

Only thing is he'd cost an arm and a leg and limit any other trades to target positions in need elsewhere in the list

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Barracked for Goddard Carlton as a kid!

there is an article about Williams in the age today, GWS offered him a 5 year deal which he hasn't taken up. Would command around $700k per year. Cap space isn't an issue for us as I understand it.

clubs-circle-giants-star-despite-five-year-offer-20200811-p55krd.html

EDIT apologies the article was yesterday and has probably already been discussed at length here.

Can heavy load his first year to actually active a first rounder for Giants their happy, we get him for a FA possibly $750K over 4-5 years... Happy Days...

 

[Blue__Balls]

No, I didn't. Would like to have a look. Was this in the post-game presser?
We've had a few go through there and the only one whose voice lifted when asked where he'll be played, was Martin.
Not Fisher, not ECurnow, not Dow and not Cuningham....Only Martin.

EDIT - Going to watch it now.



Re. Williamson; I understand the HB role for him, but he always struck me as a winger that would be hard to match up on, given his size, speed, agility and kicking. The profile is there but that doesn't mean it would work.

Not sure where the video is - excerpt I saw was in this piece: https://www.afl.com.au/news/483042

 

[HARKER]

Not sure where the video is - excerpt I saw was in this piece: https://www.afl.com.au/news/483042

Thank you.

Just listened to it - "Maybe down the track he can go back into the midfield"
I don't like that, as I feel he and Dow can rotate in there and be very dangerous with their speed and agility.
We don't need Cripps, Settterfield and then Kennedy (post ECurnow) being the mainstays.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Harks you raise an interesting point about LOB. I’m not exactly sure where he’s at. Hasn’t played in the seniors this year. Was emergency for 4 out of the first 5 games this year. Has not been an emergency since round 5. According to the club, he has not had a BOG like performance in a scratch match. Whereas, Kennedy and Philp were apparently having those performances prior to being promoted to the seniors, and Dow last weekend. Cottrell was preferred to him last week to play on the wing in the seniors. LOB is still very young but reading between the lines he doesn’t appear as close as many would like. I wonder why. This is one of the frustrations of the scratch matches - we can’t actually see how the guys are performing, except for a 2 minute highlight clip.

Not surprising he's not performing - some of those scratch matches you could have your CHB hitting a leading forward from the defensive 50.

I think LOB would have been thereabouts at the start of the year, but is probably struggling to keep his touch playing in an unfamiliar role in token practice games.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Thank you.

Just listened to it - "Maybe down the track he can go back into the midfield"
I don't like that, as I feel he and Dow can rotate in there and be very dangerous with their speed and agility.
We don't need Cripps, Settterfield and then Kennedy (post ECurnow) being the mainstays.

Betts is a small forward, and I've seen him buzzing around a few stoppages higher up the ground. I think it's just about identifying his primary position to get him in the seniors, and modern footy dictates that he'll certainly get some midfield time here and there even if that primary position is a forward pocket.

I'd say it's also a carrot to dangle for Fish himself. He sees himself as a mid, he wants to be a mid. Maybe he ends up being our equivalent of Toby Greene - not in skillset per se, but in that both were mids, who have/may find themselves repurposed as small forwards because they're behind other mids but too good to leave out of the side entirely. Toby still gets midfield time, and when injury has required it has even played dominant games as a mid.

 

[HARKER]

Betts is a small forward, and I've seen him buzzing around a few stoppages higher up the ground. I think it's just about identifying his primary position to get him in the seniors, and modern footy dictates that he'll certainly get some midfield time here and there even if that primary position is a forward pocket.

I'd say it's also a carrot to dangle for Fish himself. He sees himself as a mid, he wants to be a mid. Maybe he ends up being our equivalent of Toby Greene - not in skillset per se, but in that both were mids, who have/may find themselves repurposed as small forwards because they're behind other mids but too good to leave out of the side entirely. Toby still gets midfield time, and when injury has required it has even played dominant games as a mid.

I appreciate that and that's going to happen, but natural ball-hunters like to hunt the ball.
As we know, we still have a lot of sorting out to do in regards to understanding what we have with the cache of young mids we have.

It was good to hear Diesel endorse Dow highly yesterday. Can't wait to get this guy firing above just about any other player we have on the list.

 

[BlueBlood15]

Not surprising he's not performing - some of those scratch matches you could have your CHB hitting a leading forward from the defensive 50.

I think LOB would have been thereabouts at the start of the year, but is probably struggling to keep his touch playing in an unfamiliar role in token practice games.

Agree with you BB, the scratch matches are really not ideal for development, especially for outside players. However, it’s just interesting that Cottrell got the nod over LOB after playing on the opposite wing in the scratch matches. Pretty sure Cottrell is a year younger too. I liked what I saw from Cottrell on the weekend (wasn’t scared and ran hard) by the way. I’m just curious as to where LOB is at and I’m not sure we’ll actually find out unless he gets promoted (which looks unlikely given he hasn’t been an emergency for 5 weeks).

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Bit of talk about Alex Pearce being trade bait in the media today. He's a serious KPD when fit and healthy, was an AA lock before he went down last year. Imagining Russel could get him up and going would he be a worthwhile trade option if we can bring in Zac Williams as a FA? 25 years old would be Weiters partner in crime for the forseeable future and would be a good replacement for Jones.

Only thing is he'd cost an arm and a leg and limit any other trades to target positions in need elsewhere in the list

Just my two cents, but I'd much rather pay big for Pearce than Papley. A premiership side can get by with sub-par small forwards, but not sub-par KPD's. Pearce and Weitering would be the best defensive duo in the comp by the length of the Flemington straight.

That being said, can't see him being moved personally.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Harks you raise an interesting point about LOB. I’m not exactly sure where he’s at. Hasn’t played in the seniors this year. Was emergency for 4 out of the first 5 games this year. Has not been an emergency since round 5. According to the club, he has not had a BOG like performance in a scratch match. Whereas, Kennedy and Philp were apparently having those performances prior to being promoted to the seniors, and Dow last weekend. Cottrell was preferred to him last week to play on the wing in the seniors. LOB is still very young but reading between the lines he doesn’t appear as close as many would like. I wonder why. This is one of the frustrations of the scratch matches - we can’t actually see how the guys are performing, except for a 2 minute highlight clip.

So two things about LOB.

1. All of the scratch matches this year have been with limited numbers on the field, so naturally the wings are the first positions to go every time. Hard to stake your claim as a wing when you can't play there!

2. Teague and the match selection committee seem really focused on defensive pressure, they don't seem to want to play one-way players. It's why Dow hasn't played (apart from injury OFC), it's why LOB isn't getting a game, and it's why Newnes is picked every week. Notice who the two young players toiling in the twos who have been played this year? Philp and Cottrell. Why? Because they have great defensive effort and intensity. Until LOB can play both ways I can't see him getting a game.

I can see the merit behind it too. What would you rather?

A. Winger A who players for Carlton only gets 10 touches and they're not great, but the winger from the other team only gets 12 touches

or

B. Winger B gets 20 touches and is great with his ball use, but his direct opponent gets off the leash and gets 25 and a goal.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Did you see Teague's comments re: Fisher?

Paraphrasing - coaches told him they wanted to turn him into a small forward, he didn't like the idea, but after some time he came back to Teague with a new mindset that he wanted to be the best small forward he could be.

Could easily go one of two ways. Either he performs as a small forward to show what skills he does have, and perhaps drive up a contract offer from another suitor who can afford him more midfield time. Or he just accepts that at this point in time, the small forward position is his avenue to playing senior footy for the Blues, and enjoys the team success that we all hope to experience soon.

I like how his taken the forward role on as Teaugey mentioned...
He’s imo and I’ve mentioned this before he has the footy smarts and skill set too be a dangerous small forward, he displayed this in his draft and U18 championship year... He’s got the capacity too play close to goal or get envolved higher up the ground, what’s going to be more beneficial him and for all our forwards is us beginning to get much greater forward entries in there as we’ve started becoming a better side... He’ll get some midfield time I feel on occasions, hopefully I’d like to think we have the foresight in mixing it up by rotationing him through there he’s a vey clever and skilled player, he’s one I’d hate to loose...

 

[BlueBlood15]

So two things about LOB.

1. All of the scratch matches this year have been with limited numbers on the field, so naturally the wings are the first positions to go every time. Hard to stake your claim as a wing when you can't play there!

2. Teague and the match selection committee seem really focused on defensive pressure, they don't seem to want to play one-way players. It's why Dow hasn't played (apart from injury OFC), it's why LOB isn't getting a game, and it's why Newnes is picked every week. Notice who the two young players toiling in the twos who have been played this year? Philp and Cottrell. Why? Because they have great defensive effort and intensity. Until LOB can play both ways I can't see him getting a game.

I can see the merit behind it too. What would you rather?

A. Winger A who players for Carlton only gets 10 touches and they're not great, but the winger from the other team only gets 12 touches

or

B. Winger B gets 20 touches and is great with his ball use, but his direct opponent gets off the leash and gets 25 and a goal.

I think you’re on to something with your defensive pressure point. I agree with you it is very difficult for wings in those reduced sized scratch matches. However, Cottrell played on the wing in those same games and was preferred to play wing against West Coast. I suspect that’s where your second point comes in - he’s a better defensive wingman than LOB. He may also be simply outperforming LOB in the scratch matches but, again, unfortunately we just can’t tell with the limited information we get.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

I think you’re on to something with your defensive pressure point. I agree with you it is very difficult for wings in those reduced sized scratch matches. However, Cottrell played on the wing in those same games and was preferred to play wing against West Coast. I suspect that’s where your second point comes in - he’s a better defensive wingman than LOB. He may also be simply outperforming LOB in the scratch matches but, again, unfortunately we just can’t tell with the limited information we get.

All of the scratch match reports raved about Cottrell's defensive ability, so I'm 99% sure that's why he got the nod.

 

[TerryWallet]

What is defensive pressure when it is actually not defensive pressure though?

We continue to get runs of goals kicked against us in quick succession. While that is a responsibility of everyone on the field, i would think it is an indictment on experienced so called defensive wingers.

Newnes just aint good enough and Murphy is shot. They can go ok every now and then just like anyone can when they're given the chance. But we need to get much better through the wings.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

So two things about LOB.

1. All of the scratch matches this year have been with limited numbers on the field, so naturally the wings are the first positions to go every time. Hard to stake your claim as a wing when you can't play there!

2. Teague and the match selection committee seem really focused on defensive pressure, they don't seem to want to play one-way players. It's why Dow hasn't played (apart from injury OFC), it's why LOB isn't getting a game, and it's why Newnes is picked every week. Notice who the two young players toiling in the twos who have been played this year? Philp and Cottrell. Why? Because they have great defensive effort and intensity. Until LOB can play both ways I can't see him getting a game.

I can see the merit behind it too. What would you rather?

A. Winger A who players for Carlton only gets 10 touches and they're not great, but the winger from the other team only gets 12 touches

or

B. Winger B gets 20 touches and is great with his ball use, but his direct opponent gets off the leash and gets 25 and a goal.

That's why LOB was played as a tagger for a month, from round 4 last year. To try and teach him defensive effort

 

[Eiffel 65]

Bit of talk about Alex Pearce being trade bait in the media today. He's a serious KPD when fit and healthy, was an AA lock before he went down last year. Imagining Russel could get him up and going would he be a worthwhile trade option if we can bring in Zac Williams as a FA? 25 years old would be Weiters partner in crime for the forseeable future and would be a good replacement for Jones.

Only thing is he'd cost an arm and a leg and limit any other trades to target positions in need elsewhere in the list

They brought up his name last night during On The Couch.

If we could get his body right, it would allow us to play Jones as the 3rd tall. He's definitely athletic enough.

Trade value would only be a second rounder. Similar to that of Alex Keath, who was in AA contention last year before he got injured. It's just a matter of whether our list management team see him as a need for our list.

 

[LemmingMaster]

If we had pick 6, who would you want to take that could realistically be available?

He's been a favourite for a while but O'Driscoll is the player I really like.
Tough inside midfielder, I've not seen enough of him this year to determine if his kicking skills have improved.

Going to be a tough year to rate talent with low information for many people.

 

[LemmingMaster]

I could be a WA homer with regards to our players, so there may be some better Vic options over there which I have not seen.

If Hollands for whatever reason dropped, I would be all over him as well.

 

[Eiffel 65]

He's been a favourite for a while but O'Driscoll is the player I really like.
Tough inside midfielder, I've not seen enough of him this year to determine if his kicking skills have improved.

Going to be a tough year to rate talent with low information for many people.

Yea, I like the way his profile reads.

Draft Central notes strengths of kicking penetration, contested ball winning, endurance and burst. Sounds like he's got all the attributes to be a star.

Could be the next Clayton Oliver

 

[TheLeftFooters]

They brought up his name last night during On The Couch.

If we could get his body right, it would allow us to play Jones as the 3rd tall. He's definitely athletic enough.

Trade value would only be a second rounder. Similar to that of Alex Keath, who was in AA contention last year before he got injured. It's just a matter of whether our list management team see him as a need for our list.

Would Freo consider trading AP for a 2nd rounder though? I rate him very highly and would be a huge get for us, but my guess is Freo wouldnt bother trading him unless they are getting something good. He is contracted for another 2 years as well.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

What is defensive pressure when it is actually not defensive pressure though?

We continue to get runs of goals kicked against us in quick succession. While that is a responsibility of everyone on the field, i would think it is an indictment on experienced so called defensive wingers.

Newnes just aint good enough and Murphy is shot. They can go ok every now and then just like anyone can when they're given the chance. But we need to get much better through the wings.

Slipped tackles is the issue IMO. The way we're maintaining positioning / spread means that no-one is in position to make a tackle if the opposition slip the first one.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

They brought up his name last night during On The Couch.

If we could get his body right, it would allow us to play Jones as the 3rd tall. He's definitely athletic enough.

Trade value would only be a second rounder. Similar to that of Alex Keath, who was in AA contention last year before he got injured. It's just a matter of whether our list management team see him as a need for our list.

I think Pearce would be minimum 1st rounder, easily around the 15 mark. He's a far more complete player than Keath and younger, but agree with the rest of the points. Provides some dash as a tall defender too in a similar vein to Rance.

 

[Eiffel 65]

I could be a WA homer with regards to our players, so there may be some better Vic options over there which I have not seen.

If Hollands for whatever reason dropped, I would be all over him as well.

He's the one I'm extremely keen on us drafting if we have the opportunity.

Probably the biggest reason why I don't want us to trade for Papley. Him or DGB.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

So two things about LOB.

1. All of the scratch matches this year have been with limited numbers on the field, so naturally the wings are the first positions to go every time. Hard to stake your claim as a wing when you can't play there!

2. Teague and the match selection committee seem really focused on defensive pressure, they don't seem to want to play one-way players. It's why Dow hasn't played (apart from injury OFC), it's why LOB isn't getting a game, and it's why Newnes is picked every week. Notice who the two young players toiling in the twos who have been played this year? Philp and Cottrell. Why? Because they have great defensive effort and intensity. Until LOB can play both ways I can't see him getting a game.

I can see the merit behind it too. What would you rather?

A. Winger A who players for Carlton only gets 10 touches and they're not great, but the winger from the other team only gets 12 touches

or

B. Winger B gets 20 touches and is great with his ball use, but his direct opponent gets off the leash and gets 25 and a goal.

It was mentioned on the scratch match report that he’s being played and trialling at times as a midfielder to expand and particularly improve his contested game has spent time across half back in some games too... They may think his endurance decision making and disposal is fine but see some his defence work needs further improvement and fine tuning, maybe improving one on one contested work, body positioning spoiling tackling...

 

[Eiffel 65]

Would Freo consider trading AP for a 2nd rounder though? I rate him very highly and would be a huge get for us, but my guess is Freo wouldnt bother trading him unless they are getting something good. He is contracted for another 2 years as well.

Fremantle have a few options back there now.

Brennan Cox has emerged as a serious talent down back. It looks as though Hogan will play down back, plus they've got Logue and Hamling too.

Given their depth, I think they would entertain offers.

There's definitely an argument to say he's worth a lot on potential, but his injury history will significantly lower his asking price. It would be the same situation for us with Marchbank. If we were to offload him now, we'd be lucky to get a pick in the 30's. Has high upside but hardly seen on the park in recent times.

Pearce would be the definition of a value pick.