List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Stamos]

TDK, Pitto, Levi, maybe with H doing some chop out in the forward line

Yes, I prefer to have one more, and you can find cheaper, adequate options everywhere rather than holding onto MK

An Archie Smith, Max Lynch, Darcy Fort, all decent backups or draft a kid for the future. A latish pick, kid my the name of Micheal Mallard

Cheaper?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Thinking out of the box, Melbourne almost seem to have surplus of bigger body midfield types (not Viney btw)

Could we throw a bone at James Harmes ?
He is no star but he knows how to win his own footy and might be a good support for Cripps, whilst we wait for Lob and Stocker to develop/put muscle on ?

Still only 24.

Thoughts???

 

[Arr0w]

Cheaper?

Is there something wrong with Cheaper?

 

[Arr0w]

Thinking out of the box, Melbourne almost seem to have surplus of bigger body midfield types (not Viney btw)

Could we throw a bone at James Harmes ?
He is no star but he knows how to win his own footy and might be a good support for Cripps, whilst we wait for Lob and Stocker to develop/put muscle on ?

Still only 24.

Thoughts???

Don't mind him, would prefer Hewett though at that level

 

[thylacine60]

Simmo is just getting started, sunz out guns out. Finally filling out, will be a beast

mark my words, simmo is about to smash out his breakout game...........bookmark it..........

 

[Eiffel 65]

What are people's thoughts on Finlayson as a 3rd tall defender for us?

He's very quick and agile for his size, much like Liam Jones. Has the ability to play both tall and small.

What this would do is allow Plowman to take more smaller/mid-sized forwards that don't threaten in the air as much. These tend to be the players Plowman struggles against. E.g. your Heeney, Stephenson types etc.

One of the issues I see with our defense is we don't have many, if any penetrating kicks. Docherty, Simpson, SPS, Plowman and Jones certainly aren't penetrating by foot.

Weitering is a very good kick, but only kicks around 55m at most. Williamson would probably be our most penetrating player, but doesn't rack up big numbers.

I know Finlayson has been playing forward, but there was a period of time a few years ago where he was regarded as one of the best 3rd tall defenders in the competition. His ability to kick the ball 60-65m will give us something we don't have, which is the ability to penetrate zones by foot.

 

[Arr0w]

What are people's thoughts on Finlayson as a 3rd tall defender for us?

He's very quick and agile for his size, much like Liam Jones. Has the ability to play both tall and small.

What this would do is allow Plowman to take more smaller/mid-sized forwards that don't threaten in the air as much. These tend to be the players Plowman struggles against. E.g. your Heeney, Stephenson types etc.

One of the issues I see with our defense is we don't have many, if any penetrating kicks. Docherty, Simpson, SPS, Plowman and Jones certainly aren't penetrating by foot.

Weitering is a very good kick, but only kicks around 55m at most. Williamson would probably be our most penetrating player, but doesn't rack up big numbers.

I know Finlayson has been playing forward, but there was a period of time a few years ago where he was regarded as one of the best 3rd tall defenders in the competition. His ability to kick the ball 60-65m will give us something we don't have, which is the ability to penetrate zones by foot.

Wanted him last time he was out of contract, think we need to move past 3rd tall types. We could always try a Gov or Moore and we still have Marchbank although I don't really trust his kicking

Analysis - 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

Adelaide MMM radio this morning. Crows wont accept end of first round priority pick. Deal wont get done and McGovern will stay a crow. And complaining that we might get Grigg. I swear 90% of this town is related. Who was saying these things?

www.bigfooty.com

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Does Kemp have the pace to be line-breaking? Or are we more talking about his kicking prowess?

He doesn't have the pace of a Saad, McKenna etc., but his combination of size, strength and speed for his size will allow him to break lines.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

He doesn't have the pace of a Saad, McKenna etc., but his combination of size, strength and speed for his size will allow him to break lines.

Short term I don’t mind him as that third tall floating defender. Allows him to play fairly bruise free and ease into the speed of the game having the ball kicked to him instead of him having to find it.

I think long term he’ll be a Yeo type utility mid. The styles are uncanny. Cripps, Setterfield and Kemp looks a big trio on paper but they’ll compliment each other perfectly.

 

[fnm_just a man]

We would have to be the most fickle fans in the competition. One bad half after a competitive season and half the teams needs to be chopped or traded, the kids all of a sudden suck and we need to trade everything for a few established players....

Calm your farm. Every team this year has had up and down weeks. We are one of the few teams who have provided consistent efforts.

Do I think our list is the finished product? No way. Do I think we need to scrap half the side? No way.

How can you blame Plowman when the mids applies next to zero pressure, providing ample space for Stephenson, one of the quickest forwards in the league, to take uncontested marks. No defender would stop that and shut it with the whipping boy sh*t. Its rubbish.

The reality is we need to be patient still and accept there will be bumps along the journey. Not every kid on the list will be a hit but surely you can't write them off so soon.

As for the experienced guys, I'd be hanging onto them as long as I could. If dow, O'Brien, Cunningham stocker and co want to play senior footy the smash the door down and displace these guys. This is what builds a strong, successful club - guys getting games because they cannot be ignored anymore through strong performances, not games for the sake of development.

The reality is there is no guaranteed path to contend and we all have different ideas for what we think is required to get there. I'm far from convinced that patience is the key - in fact, too much patience is dangerous, imo. Nor do I think we need to trade half the team. I do think we need to be proactive and clever with trades though.

I've made the point elsewhere that I think culture/belief/mental weakness is our main barrier at the moment. I'm not convinced that the current crop is going to develop it from within either - do we take that chance? I thought when Cripps became captain, we would see the cultural shift - we haven't. We're still physically and mentally soft. The physical element can't come without the mental element - that is undeniable. My next hope is removing Murph and Simmo from the team. The idea being that it may empower some of the young guys to stand up and set their standard. No guarantee there.

Something I consider more foolproof is to bring successful/gun veterans in from the outside, paying overs in $$, if need be, for a year or two to woo them across on the proviso that they have a duty to lead, create and enforce the standard required. My reasoning is that I'm not convinced our current list has the capacity to set the physical and mental standard required of a contender, and therefore I ask if it's worth the risk to wait and see? Several (most?) of our young guys are performing below where we would expect them to be.

Without having put too much thought into specific players, the idea in my mind should be for players like Isaac Smith, Ben Cunnington, Andrew Gaff, Rory Sloane etc - fill holes in our list temporarily (and probably helping us into the 8), but more importantly they bring self-belief and intellectual property to set the standard required. (Gaff is a little different in the aforementioned group bc he could easily be there should we contend in the next 5 years and would be expensive). They would be invaluable for our younger guys and they would also make us a better team immediately.

If we want experienced guys, I would prefer to combine Simmo's and Murph's salaries and put it towards getting Smith (for example) for a year or two, if for no other reason than Murph and Simmo haven't been able to instil the belief and courage in our current players as we would have hoped. Murph doesn't exactly lead with an example we want our young guys to follow either - that's a problem.

Obviously, getting Williams would be huge for the Club and we should go all out for him and potentially hand over some valuable assets or players for other ready-to-go players who are made of the right stuff, but on the side we should be looking for veterans who can come in and shape the cultural direction of the Club. For 20 years we've been unable to achieve it ourselves and nothing in our rebuild so far has told us that we're on an inevitable path to achieving it.

TL;DR: trade for veterans to replace our own veterans to establish/enforce/shape the cultural direction of the team. (At the same time as going for Williams as a RFA and at the same time as being prepared to trade valuable draft picks or players to get what we need)

 

[BlueTongue]

Good to see someone else doesn't see a small forward as our #1 priority.

What we desperately need above all else, is a GOAL-KICKING mid. We have a whole slew of reasonable young mids who can get it, the trouble is that they simply bomb it in to the forward line on top of a tall's head, instead of putting it into space of a leading forward. Also, Murphy's decisions aren't what they used so his footskills often suffer due to his indecision. We really need a Dusty type of Mid who is happy to play up the ground but can still be dangerous around goals. We have to many that don't want to take the shot or are 'too unselfish'. Fisher & Newnes are Ok in this Dept, but neither is a top tier mid.

 

[BlueTongue]

You actually seem to believe what you are saying. The next to last thing that will happen is cutting Plow.

I do and I stand by it.

 

[DangerousD]

Is anyone concerned with the role David Teague seems to be playing Weiters? I’m a big Weiters fan and I think he has been playing well, but his output is down, not only from 2019 but 2018 too. The role he is playing now robs the team of his biggest strengths and that was his intercept marking and his disposal.

I think he is being wasted, i don’t see why you would turn a number 1 drafted gun kid in to a lockdown defender, this is not a shot at Jacob as I think he is doing what he’s asked, I just think he could be providing more.

Secondly, either our tall forwards are dumb, our defenders/mids are dumb or our coaches are dumb, the amount of times our players bombed it long to the forward line and have uncontested intercept marks or the ball cleared with ease was really bad, something needs to change and I hope the coaches are aware of it.

On Dow and Polson, you can’t expect young inexperienced players coming up from Mickey mouse scratch matches to be up to speed, let’s give them a few weeks to adapt and then judge.

 

[new_blue]

Not disputing getting in an A grade mid would be great, but what we really need is a solid A-/B+ mid that we can rely on week-in and week-out to:
- do their job
- win 20-odd possessions a game and use it effectively
- tackle, block
- pressure
- run hard and support defensively

I’m thinking down the lines of Touk Miller, Jarrod Lyons, Mundy, Menagola, Libratore, Viney, Ebert, Boak, etc.

I was hoping Kennedy would be this guy, but doesn’t look to be.

 

[BlueTongue]

We are still last for disposal efficiency

Mids that can hit targets/foot speed, please

I will say that the gameplan, while being exciting when it clicks, it also lends to the poor disposal

We need to find a better balance, targeting the right players, refining the gears of the gameplan

Indeed. And who will actually have a shot on goal instead of looking to give it off. Cripps doesn't set a good example in this area unfortunately. Martin started off perfectly but seems to have had some indecision in recent times. I'm also noticing that we are just too rushed to get it in to the forward line quickly instead of hitting a target in space. I know we have to get it in quick to beat the rush of players getting back into our 50m arc, but there should be a couple of players presenting instead of these big clusters where we seem to hope our Talls can outmark the defenders. There should be an element of that, but also honouring players who make space.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Is anyone concerned with the role David Teague seems to be playing Weiters? I’m a big Weiters fan and I think he has been playing well, but his output is down, not only from 2019 but 2018 too. The role he is playing now robs the team of his biggest strengths and that was his intercept marking and his disposal.

I think he is being wasted, i don’t see why you would turn a number 1 drafted gun kid in to a lockdown defender, this is not a shot at Jacob as I think he is doing what he’s asked, I just think he could be providing more.

What? He played 2s for half of 2018. Was okay in 2019 and has improved out of sight this season. Will no doubt be in the AA squad and a huge chance to make the team.

Literally the last of our issues. Tell me this is a troll and I’m missing something. What more do you think he could provide?

 

[DangerousD]

What? He played 2s for half of 2018. Was okay in 2019 and has improved out of sight this season. Will no doubt be in the AA squad and a huge chance to make the team.

Literally the last of our issues. Tell me this is a troll and I’m missing something. What more do you think he could provide?

I think you need to re-read my post.

Weiterings output this year is down on 2019 and 2018, to me this is because he is now being played as a lockdown defender and not to his strengths.

His disposals are lower this year than last year and 2018, his marking Is his worst year EVER, it’s his biggest asset and it’s worst this year than his debut year.

Let me make this very clear as your response seemed to miss it, I am asking if anyone is concerned at the role David Teague is playing JW, not that JW has lost his ability to mark or find the footy Or has gone backward in his development.

 

[bigdog43]

It has become blatantly obvious that our two biggest targets need to be another A grade midfielder and a small defender.

Defensively I’d maybe chase a player like Markov but can’t say I'm keen On many

I would trade our first pick this year for Ollie Wines. It’s a compromised draft and we have the opportunity to go and get an A grade mid. We have enough young mids developing and Wines is the perfect age. Tackles, wins clearances and has mongrel.

Zac Williams is an absolute must. We need speed through the middle and he would make trading a first pick for Wines much more likely.

I’d also go after another B-C grade midfielder. T McLean, J Graham, Narkle maybe Fiorini. I’d trade a future pick for one of them, the round of pick dependent on player. I’m conscious we still don’t have enough mids in that 23-27 year old bracket.

I’d also go after Papley if we could offer next years first and a player but not sure if Sydney would bite.

We must trade very aggressively this off season, going to the draft again is not an option, we must play finals next year.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I think you need to re-read my post.

Weiterings output this year is down on 2019 and 2018, to me this is because he is now being played as a lockdown defender and not to his strengths.

His disposals are lower this year than last year and 2018, his marking Is his worst year EVER, it’s his biggest asset and it’s worst this year than his debut year.

Let me make this very clear as your response seemed to miss it, I am asking if anyone is concerned at the role David Teague is playing JW, not that JW has lost his ability to mark or find the footy Or has gone backward in his development.

He will likely be the AA CHB.

Zero concerns. Absolutely none.

 

[Funk]

Now that we are not playing finals we need to rest some of our senior players and give our youngsters some AFL exposure. Would love to see Macreadie replace Plowman. There is a chance he maybe delisted so why not play him now? Bring back Honey and play him all over the ground, persevere with Dow in the middle and Polson down back, Cottrell and LOB on the wing. These players wont develop playing mickey mouse 12 a side football. Lets rest some of our senior players for the sake of player development.

So let’s drop our senior players so we get flogged by 10 goals each week.

How is getting flogged every week going to help our “player development“?

We did that under Bolton for 3 years FFS.

 

[Funk]

Agree on Ed. If list size drops to 40 then I still think we keep ED.

Ed was probably our most productive Mid last week (although Walsh got a vote). Must play on.

Ed is more valuable than Murphy based on current output. But Murphy is still earning a spot and it is up to the youngsters to go past him. Could play on.

Lose Simmo - we have Newman or Polson, unless we get GWS recruit Z. Williams (if we got very lucky). Probably time to go.

Lose Betts - we have Cuningham or Owies showing a bit in the 2s, maybe Honey/Phillips? so that hurts unless Papely is still keen. I like the way Owies is playing and a goal sneak who is happy to take shots would help in the 1s. Betts at his best we keep but Probably time to go.

Lose Kreuzer and we lose a massive point of difference. Imagine how much a fit Kreuzer would add against GWS this week. But it is just not happening anymore unfortunately. TDK, Pitto and Casboult are limited role players in comparison. Probably time to go.

Jones had a tough day Sunday, hope he can recover and dominate against GWS. Should play on one more year and probably Goddard has to go.

Casboult fading? not imposing, taking marks or kicking goals in recent games. Versatility should mean we keep him if K. retires, but if K. is good for 2021 then Probably time to go.

These are very hard decisions
But only way to found out if the young guys are any good

“imagine a fit Kreuzer”???

finding this very difficult after the last few years.

 

[Funk]

I’m warming to the idea of Jack Graham. I don’t particularly rate him as a footballer, I’m sure that grand final was more of an outlier than a sign of what’s to come, but I cannot knock his defensive pressure. I reckon we need an extra tackling midfielder to go with Setters and Ed.

Parfitt is a similar type with a far more rounded game. I wonder what it’d take to get him over?

I feel the need for speed - and Jack Graham doesn’t have the necessary turbo installed.

 

[Funk]

Elmer I am a little confused

In the game day thread, you made a statement about supporters bagging Dow, now you are on a missin to trade him

Game Day - Rnd 14 - Carlton v Collingwood Game Day Discussion

Really good the last few min.

www.bigfooty.com

What's changed?

EJ = reed.

Bends whichever way the wind is blowing.

 

[Funk]

*Trade Plowman for a bag of chips.
*Move McGovern to the backline.
*Simpson and Eddie given farewell games in round 17. Eddie to stay on in a development role.
*Kreuzer to stay on for ruck depth and development role for TDK.

FWIW I’m interested to know who you’d put on the best oppo forward each week with Plowman gone?

Who would have stopped Stephenson with the ball being delivered lace out in acres of space.

Serious question.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I feel the need for speed - and Jack Graham doesn’t have the necessary turbo installed.

He does lack pace and urgency with the ball but you know what you’re gonna get week in week out.

If he can build a tank he could be a long term Ed replacement. Just a cheaper option if other targets don’t pull through.