List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Brackets]

2 mids and a small forward.

What's the plan for day 2?

 

[Michael Jezz]

Most important starting point for list management is to retire Betts, Simpson, Kreuzer & Murphy. They are collectively cooked and are not providing leadership. They aren't the coaches we need post retirement. Carlton is not a training school for coaches. We need the best premiership experienced assistants for this group. Retiring them all, when their experience is providing no benefit will send a message that we are not a complacent club and put the heat on our 3rd, 4th and 5th year players. The experience we need is getting geelong, hawthorn veterans who know how to win not a group of loyal servants who are either cooked or who are defined by years of defeat

 

[skadoosh]

Murphy still has decent delivery into the forward line if forwards lead up. I'd play him as a high half forward to utilise his foot skills. I'd say his tackling and pressure isn't good enough to play the small forward it lockdown role. But he'd still get a chance to kick goals at half forward...he still has good goal sense.

 

[Red Bull]

Cut the cord friends ... time to move on

 

[Michael Jezz]

Cripps is not a Captain. He needs to fix his goal kicking and get his body right in 8 weeks. If our club is to be about owning the result, the captain of this group needs to own the results, bleed for it. That guy is Ed Curnow. I want 1 captain, who the players follow into battle.

 

[Jeremias]

Cripps is not a Captain. He needs to fix his goal kicking and get his body right in 8 weeks. If our club is to be about owning the result, the captain of this group needs to own the results, bleed for it. That guy is Ed Curnow. I want 1 captain, who the players follow into battle.

Sorry Michael, but sometimes all you can do is shake your head and laugh.

You continue to miss the mark by an incredible amount.

Cripps is a terrific young captain, we are lucky to have both he and Docherty at the club and at the helm.

Every player goes through peaks and troughs, these guys are no different. To question their captaincy is just laughable, as is to suggest they should be replaced because some have thrown the toys out of the cot on the back of falling short of making finals.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Sorry Michael, but sometimes all you can do is shake your head and laugh.

You continue to miss the mark by an incredible amount.

Cripps is a terrific young captain, we are lucky to have both he and Docherty at the club and at the helm.

Every player goes through peaks and troughs, these guys are no different. To question their captaincy is just laughable, as is to suggest they should be replaced because some have thrown the toys out of the cot on the back of falling short of making finals.

A player who misses crunch goals and has significant fitness issues should not be your captain. Let him get fit, fix his personal issues and give it to the best leader today-Ed Curnow. The club can not be complacent and think it is all going to come together. Cripps isn't leading us. This year he is part of the problem. He can have it back in a couple of years. This is a brutal game and my club has no more time to waste in purgatory

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Murphy is still best 22 and probably our 3rd best midfielder going into 2021 (behind Cripps and Ed). Setters is in the process of overtaking him and should continue too, Walsh is also probably better but more of a winger at the moment.

I’d be pleasantly surprised if any of Gibbons, Stocker, Dow, Kennedy or Philp overtake him within 12 months, let alone 2-3 of them. We should no longer be gifting games for the sake of it.

For that reason he should be retained.

 

[La Dispute]

Don’t mind the Laird suggestion. His game style is universally chided, but he still manages to notch up 25 touches most weeks and provides a good link in the back half. I’m sure Teague has a good understanding on what he can add, although he’s certainly not a necessity.

I’m also struggling to reconcile our midfield woes. We’ve taken 8 midfielders in the first round since 2015 and only Walsh looks like becoming a star (I’d argue, based on his importance to the team and massive second half of the year he already is), while Kemp is a complete unknown.

I think some of these guys will end up at other clubs, and some might just be better off if this occurs. Development can often be put down to being at the right place at the right time, and finding a niche. We just have to find the balance between giving them enough time to show their wares and trading them before their value drops. If the right deal presents itself we’d be silly not to consider it.

 

[Jeremias]

A player who misses crunch goals and has significant fitness issues should not be your captain. Let him get fit, fix his personal issues and give it to the best leader today-Ed Curnow. The club can not be complacent and think it is all going to come together. Cripps isn't leading us. This year he is part of the problem. He can have it back in a couple of years. This is a brutal game and my club has no more time to waste in purgatory

So a club should strip the captaincy off the best leader they've got, because he's playing through injury and is a poor kick in front of goals?

As I said, sometimes all you can do is shake your head and laugh. There's just no semblance of logic to even debate here.

 

[thylacine60]

So a club should strip the captaincy off the best leader they've got, because he's playing through injury and is a poor kick in front of goals?

As I said, sometimes all you can do is shake your head and laugh. There's just no semblance of logic to even debate here.

a fill-in skipper till crippa gets his kicking sorted............ok then..........

 

[thylacine60]

Don’t mind the Laird suggestion. His game style is universally chided, but he still manages to notch up 25 touches most weeks and provides a good link in the back half. I’m sure Teague has a good understanding on what he can add, although he’s certainly not a necessity.

I’m also struggling to reconcile our midfield woes. We’ve taken 8 midfielders in the first round since 2015 and only Walsh looks like becoming a star (I’d argue, based on his importance to the team and massive second half of the year he already is), while Kemp is a complete unknown.

I think some of these guys will end up at other clubs, and some might just be better off if this occurs. Development can often be put down to being at the right place at the right time, and finding a niche. We just have to find the balance between giving them enough time to show their wares and trading them before their value drops. If the right deal presents itself we’d be silly not to consider it.

b & f in 2018 when they weren't totally shit.........not the worst here............keep safe..........

 

[La Dispute]

A player who misses crunch goals and has significant fitness issues should not be your captain. Let him get fit, fix his personal issues and give it to the best leader today-Ed Curnow. The club can not be complacent and think it is all going to come together. Cripps isn't leading us. This year he is part of the problem. He can have it back in a couple of years. This is a brutal game and my club has no more time to waste in purgatory

How often do players regain the captaincy after losing it? I can’t think of one example.

Cripps’ ability as captain and personal form have to be separated. It’s frustrating Cripps can’t kick a set shot and his form has deteriorated, but our issue is we lack some basic depth, don’t have enough quality senior players and have largely relied on Cripps to do everything over the past 5 years to the point we are now unlearning how to play without him dominating which has essentially been our gameplan.

I’m starting to come around to the idea we would be fine without him long term, but he’s the last player we need to be criticising at the moment. Trying too hard to will the team over the line but being unable to is something I can live with. Time for others to stand up and show anything near what he has in the first half of his career.

 

[Red Bull]

Murphy is still best 22 and probably our 3rd best midfielder going into 2021 (behind Cripps and Ed). Setters is in the process of overtaking him and should continue too, Walsh is also probably better but more of a winger at the moment.

I’d be pleasantly surprised if any of Gibbons, Stocker, Dow, Kennedy or Philp overtake him within 12 months, let alone 2-3 of them. We should no longer be gifting games for the sake of it.

For that reason he should be retained.

Murphy is the player being gifted games.
Conditional and repeatedly avoids the contest.
If this club prioritises individual milestones over building a premiership contending team ... well ...

 

[fnm_just a man]

Could....not....agree.....more.

This is exactly why I wants us to target players that bring standards along with them.
No little cherries that make good when the rest of the team are doing well, but the guys that dig in and show those around them how it's done.
Call them what you will; Winners, Drivers, Standard-setters, Impact players......we know what they are and how important these types would be.

We'd be pulling our hair out now, had we targeted someone like a Polec and just maybe we already have one in McGovern. We'll see, but we have to be looking for players with grunt and carry a load, not place that load onto another.

In answer to the question, what we wish for? (I'd say insist upon but....)

1. Development.
2. Development.
3. Fit and injury free squad - relatively speaking.
4. Development.
5. Players like Williams or Papley.

If we don't start to extract the best out of players Stocker, Dow, O'Brien, McGovern, SPS etc, then a player here or there isn't going to make the difference.

Exactly. Papley plays with an intensity beyond any one of our players. Williams is similar and offers courage and dare. Haynes - one of the most courageous and determined players in the league, who is also very smart and skilful.

If we’re willing to be bold (and can get the players interested in joining), I see all 3 as gettable. Probably means parting way with one decent player as well as this year’s first and next year’s first or second.

There is a potential insurmountable hurdle though - if we were to get Haynes interested, GWS probably have the money to pay Williams!.. and we have to prioritise Williams. Still, doesn’t hurt to ask the question.

Just hope the club is willing to be bold to bring in the right ingredients.

 

[Gavstar]

Murphy is the player being gifted games.
Conditional and repeatedly avoids the contest.
If this club prioritises individual milestones over building a premiership contending team ... well ...

Really? he doesn't stick tackles but haven't seen him short step or not put his head over the ball. Will be top 5 in B&F this year. Better year than either captain

 

[La Dispute]

Murphy is the player being gifted games.
Conditional and repeatedly avoids the contest.
If this club prioritises individual milestones over building a premiership contending team ... well ...

We are gifting games either way tbh. Murphy plays and we get 20 touches, little defensive effort, a couple of goal assists but also a couple of incomprehensible turnovers, but contrast that with someone like Dow we gets as 10 touches, some OK defensive pressure, and a couple of clangers and we are getting a good indication of our current headaches with our midfield mix.

I’m nowhere near sure what the solution is.

 

[mochacinolatte]

A player who misses crunch goals and has significant fitness issues should not be your captain. Let him get fit, fix his personal issues and give it to the best leader today-Ed Curnow. The club can not be complacent and think it is all going to come together. Cripps isn't leading us. This year he is part of the problem. He can have it back in a couple of years. This is a brutal game and my club has no more time to waste in purgatory

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Murphy is the player being gifted games.
Conditional and repeatedly avoids the contest.
If this club prioritises individual milestones over building a premiership contending team ... well ...

I’ve been critical of Murph in the past but he’s 100% best 22.

Dow is just as conditional and one way. Stocker and Philp don’t have the production or tank, yet. Kennedy isn’t going to get much better than he is. Kemp is an absolute unknown. SPS and Fish can’t get a look in.

It’d be nice if Murphy was overtaken but from what I can see it’s not happening within 12 months. So we keep him. If he becomes our 23rd man that’s fantastic and we’ve improved immensely.

 

[Curnivore]

Murphy is the player being gifted games.
Conditional and repeatedly avoids the contest.
If this club prioritises individual milestones over building a premiership contending team ... well ...

He has a contract next year. He is playing regardless of how many times you post about it

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Could....not....agree.....more.

This is exactly why I wants us to target players that bring standards along with them.
No little cherries that make good when the rest of the team are doing well, but the guys that dig in and show those around them how it's done.
Call them what you will; Winners, Drivers, Standard-setters, Impact players......we know what they are and how important these types would be.

We'd be pulling our hair out now, had we targeted someone like a Polec and just maybe we already have one in McGovern. We'll see, but we have to be looking for players with grunt and carry a load, not place that load onto another.

In answer to the question, what we wish for? (I'd say insist upon but....)

1. Development.
2. Development.
3. Fit and injury free squad - relatively speaking.
4. Development.
5. Players like Williams or Papley.

If we don't start to extract the best out of players Stocker, Dow, O'Brien, McGovern, SPS etc, then a player here or there isn't going to make the difference.

This is one thing I think those little, hard-nosed, small-man-syndrome-suffering types are great at. It's what I thought Jack Higgins would be and why I wanted him in 2017. Give me a zorko/prestia/papley

 

[HBF]

Most important starting point for list management is to retire Betts, Simpson, Kreuzer & Murphy. They are collectively cooked and are not providing leadership. They aren't the coaches we need post retirement. Carlton is not a training school for coaches. We need the best premiership experienced assistants for this group. Retiring them all, when their experience is providing no benefit will send a message that we are not a complacent club and put the heat on our 3rd, 4th and 5th year players. The experience we need is getting geelong, hawthorn veterans who know how to win not a group of loyal servants who are either cooked or who are defined by years of defeat

Murphy has already signed a 1 year extension.
Ridiculous by the club if you ask me.

 

[Red Bull]

He has a contract next year. He is playing regardless of how many times you post about it

Haven’t seen anything official from the club.
But if so, what does that say about those in charge ...

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Murphy has already signed a 1 year extension.
Ridiculous by the club if you ask me.

Not sure I like it either, but the reality is the kids aren't taking his spot off him. Been one of our best in 2 out of the last 3 weeks, and there's only 3 games left in the season.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Cripps is 25. His body is broken and he has a family mental health issue to deal with. He needs to concentrate on himself. When are we as supporters going to stop being complacent and face facts when things are not working. "Keep murphy, cripps as captain" If carlton does not change some key constants of the playing list we will not be the top 4 side we could be