List Mgmt. 2021 draft pool.

[Lore]

 

[Tigers Time]

I'm for this, though I really do now think we can get one of Hobbs or Ward at 7.

Quick prediction up until our first pick...

1. North Melbourne: Horne Francis - Locked in
2. Collingwood: Daicos - Locked in after GWS bid
3. Bulldogs: Darcy - Locked in after GWS bid
4. GWS: Callaghan - Supposedly best player outside top 3
5. Gold Coast: Gibcus - They are stacked for midfielders so I reckon they'll go a key defender, especially with talk of Lukosius moving forward
6. Adelaide: Andrew - They have lost Talia and Kelly in the same year, have a good midfield but only one ruck as well, fills two needs
7. Hawthorn: Ward - Seemingly the best available at this point so you reckon they'd pounce
8. Fremantle: Erasmus - Local boy, makes more sense given covid issues
9. Richmond: Hobbs - We get our midfielder

This has the midfield version of Vlastuin written all over it. Our first top 10 pick since the great man, a vanilla type but with a hard edge and leadership traits. We'll get a 12+ year midfielder out of Hobbs

GWS may instead take Andrew given their own need for another ruck and tall (Mumford old or did he retire even? Loss of Cameron, Finlayson), at which point I reckon Adelaide then takes Callaghan as next best available, and Gold Coast sticks with Gibcus prior.

Only stumbling block I see is that Fremantle also has the next pick after ours, so may hamstring us by picking Ward/Hobbs before us, knowing we are less likely to take the WA boy Erasmus off them, who they'll then grab at 10. But they may want Amiss at either of their picks lest West Coast or even Essendon pounces right after, so I reckon Freo goes for Erasmus and Amiss, and we'll be safe. Here's hoping. Would hate for us to have our best draft hand in ages and get wrecked by other teams picking who we want and need.

The Crows won’t take Andrew they literally just drafted Thillthorpe (spelling?). They need inside mids.

 

[RobsJourney]

The Crows won’t take Andrew they literally just drafted Thillthorpe (spelling?). They need inside mids.

He is a forward. Andrew is a ruck/defender.

EDIT: Either way surely someone takes Andrew before our pick, which leaves more chance we'll get the mid we want.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

I'm for this, though I really do now think we can get one of Hobbs or Ward at 7.

Quick prediction up until our first pick...

1. North Melbourne: Horne Francis - Locked in
2. Collingwood: Daicos - Locked in after GWS bid
3. Bulldogs: Darcy - Locked in after GWS bid
4. GWS: Callaghan - Supposedly best player outside top 3
5. Gold Coast: Gibcus - They are stacked for midfielders so I reckon they'll go a key defender, especially with talk of Lukosius moving forward
6. Adelaide: Andrew - They have lost Talia and Kelly in the same year, have a good midfield but only one ruck as well, fills two needs
7. Hawthorn: Ward - Seemingly the best available at this point so you reckon they'd pounce
8. Fremantle: Erasmus - Local boy, makes more sense given covid issues
9. Richmond: Hobbs - We get our midfielder

This has the midfield version of Vlastuin written all over it. Our first top 10 pick since the great man, a vanilla type but with a hard edge and leadership traits. We'll get a 12+ year midfielder out of Hobbs

GWS may instead take Andrew given their own need for another ruck and tall (Mumford old or did he retire even? Loss of Cameron, Finlayson), at which point I reckon Adelaide then takes Callaghan as next best available, and Gold Coast sticks with Gibcus prior.

Only stumbling block I see is that Fremantle also has the next pick after ours, so may hamstring us by picking Ward/Hobbs before us, knowing we are less likely to take the WA boy Erasmus off them, who they'll then grab at 10. But they may want Amiss at either of their picks lest West Coast or even Essendon pounces right after, so I reckon Freo goes for Erasmus and Amiss, and we'll be safe. Here's hoping. Would hate for us to have our best draft hand in ages and get wrecked by other teams picking who we want and need.

We are absolutely stacked for developing KPD's.

Nicks and our recruitment guys have made it very clear we're after Midfield Class/Speed and Small Forwards.

 

[RobsJourney]

We are absolutely stacked for developing KPD's.

Nicks and our recruitment guys have made it very clear we're after Midfield Class/Speed and Small Forwards.

Then I hope you take Rachele

Are you that stacked for developing KPDs ?

 

[WeedsMullet84]

100%
If we can snag pick 2 then use all to do it.

7&15 for pick 2 is a great deal for us.

It’s about a 40% chance in the top 4 you’ll get a superstar. It’s probably around 10% at 7

Not a snowflakes chance in hell GWS do that deal. Pick 2 for what will become Pick 9 and 17?

You just have to look at previous trades to know that moving up the draft order barely ever happens because the cost is too high.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Then I hope you take Rachele

Are you that stacked for developing KPDs ?

Rachele would be on our radar if we split our picks, otherwise commonsense says we'll take Hobbs/Ward, or Callaghan in the off chance he's still on the board.

KPD's we have Butts, Murray, McAsey and Worrell

 

[Damo80]

2nd in the BnF with many injuries;
In performance and consistency he is behind Grimes, Broad, Short, Vlaustuin, Dusty, Prestia, Nankervis, Lambert, Edwards, Baker, Jack, Cotch & Bulter.
He is a worker, good but not a star, we finished 13th ? With so many mid out injured.
The jury is still out IMHO but I hope he blitzes in 2022 and proves me wrong.

Bit rough having him behind Butler... [emoji15]

And the question is, will Cotch, Prestia, Jack, Lambert, Edwards ever have a better year than him from here out, with age and injury becoming a factor? I get he's not flashy, and he probably needs to step it up with those mentioned in their twilight's. There's not much to build our midfield around if Graham is no good.


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[_RT_]

I love it but let's be serious GWS would have to be out of their mind to do that deal, for us it would = highway robbery at its finest.
Now, imagine if 2 and 13 were our picks and we gave up pick 2 for pick 7 and pick 13 for pick 15, but got back 26 as some sort of sweetener, we would march down to punt road demanding answers.

Depends on what you're trying to achieve.

GWS apparently like Andrew, but know pick 2 is too high to take him, and it's unlikely he gets through to 13(15 after bids). So by dropping down to 7(9), which is a reasonable pick to give up for Andrew, they guarantee getting the kid they want. They also have a highly rated academy kid that is in the mix for late first/early 2nd round, but they also want to try and nab another kid before a bid for him comes. So they swap 13(15) for 15(17) to give them that chance, if a bid comes before that pick, they only lose that pick to match and still have 26 to get them a 3rd kid inside the top 30. If a bid comes after 26 gives them more points to match than their current 3rd pick which is 53.

On the flip side of the deal, Richmond have their heart set on one of the top line midfielders, but they are unlikely to make it past the sides ahead of us who also want midfielders to rebuild their sides around. So by moving up to the GWS pick, they guarantee them they land that kid, but in doing so they are going to have to give up plenty to do so. With 5 picks inside the top 30, they can afford to use some of that draft capital to ensure they get the kid they want. So they give up 2 first round picks and their highest rated 2nd to end up with just the 2 first round picks, which means instead of landing 5 top 30 rated kids, they only end up with 4.

For mine it's a pretty even deal in terms of what the clubs are trying to get out of the deal.

Now having said all that, I'm still on the opinion that we hold our picks and let the draft come to us. Our 5 top 30 picks can either net us 5 quality kids or they could bring us some very good deals as teams try and get back into the draft, which could mean we improve our hand for next year and there are some options available to us to fill the list by either upgrading rookies and drafting more rookies or taking a couple of delisted free agents.

 

[Barnard]

Main thing in common that both players Ellis & Lennon didnt have was Speed and run
lack of speed gets you by at lower levels but you need to be a very special player to over come these at AFL level

both very talented and skilled players but lack of pace and run found them out

Speed could be a factor with Ellis but I don’t think Lennon necessarily needed it to be a very good player early days but it could have caught up with him later on as it has with caddy.

 

[RobsJourney]

Depends on what you're trying to achieve.

GWS apparently like Andrew, but know pick 2 is too high to take him, and it's unlikely he gets through to 13(15 after bids). So by dropping down to 7(9), which is a reasonable pick to give up for Andrew, they guarantee getting the kid they want. They also have a highly rated academy kid that is in the mix for late first/early 2nd round, but they also want to try and nab another kid before a bid for him comes. So they swap 13(15) for 15(17) to give them that chance, if a bid comes before that pick, they only lose that pick to match and still have 26 to get them a 3rd kid inside the top 30. If a bid comes after 26 gives them more points to match than their current 3rd pick which is 53.

On the flip side of the deal, Richmond have their heart set on one of the top line midfielders, but they are unlikely to make it past the sides ahead of us who also want midfielders to rebuild their sides around. So by moving up to the GWS pick, they guarantee them they land that kid, but in doing so they are going to have to give up plenty to do so. With 5 picks inside the top 30, they can afford to use some of that draft capital to ensure they get the kid they want. So they give up 2 first round picks and their highest rated 2nd to end up with just the 2 first round picks, which means instead of landing 5 top 30 rated kids, they only end up with 4.

For mine it's a pretty even deal in terms of what the clubs are trying to get out of the deal.

Now having said all that, I'm still on the opinion that we hold our picks and let the draft come to us. Our 5 top 30 picks can either net us 5 quality kids or they could bring us some very good deals as teams try and get back into the draft, which could mean we improve our hand for next year and there are some options available to us to fill the list by either upgrading rookies and drafting more rookies or taking a couple of delisted free agents.

Good thinking all around, but for mine I hope we don't go too hard on improving our hand for next year at the expense of this year's draft.

We need something really good to top us off in the right now whilst our window still exists (a Ward or Hobbs could do that), but also, the sooner we start our mini rebuild the better. There will be more footy exposure next year which will make drafting "easier" (for want of a better word), but we should capitalise now I reckon.

 

[RobsJourney]

Speed could be a factor with Ellis but I don’t think Lennon necessarily needed it to be a very good player early days but it could have caught up with him later on as it has with caddy.

Lennon could have been every bit the forward Caddy was or better, it was a shame.

 

[RobsJourney]

Rachele would be on our radar if we split our picks, otherwise commonsense says we'll take Hobbs/Ward, or Callaghan in the off chance he's still on the board.

KPD's we have Butts, Murray, McAsey and Worrell

Hmm, would you say stacked?

Personally I think Butts is really average, I have no idea about Murray and Worrell, and wasn't McAsey potentially about to be leaving and then stayed? Doesn't sound like the prospects are all that exciting to me, wouldn't you wanna draft a sure thing.

Anyway Andrew is a ruck as well, which you have like one of yeah? O'Brien and no one else?

 

[DontArgue4]

Not a snowflakes chance in hell GWS do that deal. Pick 2 for what will become Pick 9 and 17?

You just have to look at previous trades to know that moving up the draft order barely ever happens because the cost is too high.

Got the lotto numbers too there do ya m8?

 

[fargothegreat]

We are absolutely stacked for developing KPD's.

Nicks and our recruitment guys have made it very clear we're after Midfield Class/Speed and Small Forwards.

Yeah I think you guys take one of Hobbs, Ward or Rachelle.

 

[Infamy]

Can't trade our F1 at the moment because we don't have a F3 or a F4./QUOTE]
Future 3rd & 4th round picks have no impact on our ability to trade our first round pick as we still have 2 x 2nd rounders. The rule is that you can't trade both your future 1st and 2nd away without trading back into the first two rounds.
Also by having at least 2 x 1st round picks this year, we are fine as far as the total number of 1st round picks that we can trade away over a 4 year period.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Speed could be a factor with Ellis but I don’t think Lennon necessarily needed it to be a very good player early days but it could have caught up with him later on as it has with caddy.

Lennon was a medium tall with not a big leap and no speed , This is a massive issue unless yu are a very special player like stevie J
also had no midfield ability which limited his ability to play.

 

[RobsJourney]

Just found this, could be pretty spot on:

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[tigerfan1961]

Was equal second in our BnF this year... I think you're underrating him a touch. If all players are fit and firing, and playing a full season then I'd probably have him on the fringe of that top 10. But again, this season the club itself considered him our second best performed player, soooo....

P.s. if you're wanting a potential game changer, would be hard to go past Rachelle. I wouldn't be against it. Especially if we could get one or two of Johnson/Goater/Roberts/Sheldrick etc with later picks.

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Sheldrick is a player we should definitely target with one of our picks in the 20’s, if he’s still available at that point of the draft

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

He is a forward. Andrew is a ruck/defender.

EDIT: Either way surely someone takes Andrew before our pick, which leaves more chance we'll get the mid we want.

Personally i dont think he goes top 10 GWS pick #13 is my view

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

We are absolutely stacked for developing KPD's.

Nicks and our recruitment guys have made it very clear we're after Midfield Class/Speed and Small Forwards.

Rachele looks to be a perfect fit for the Crows

 

[tigerfan1961]

Rachele would be on our radar if we split our picks, otherwise commonsense says we'll take Hobbs/Ward, or Callaghan in the off chance he's still on the board.

KPD's we have Butts, Murray, McAsey and Worrell

With pick 33 your next best after 4, I reckon your mob would be mad not to trade 4 for 7 & 15. You’d get two pretty decent mids at those two selections.
But for the record, I want us to keep both of those picks for the reason I just outlined to justify your mob trading pick 4 if that makes sense

 

[tigerfan1961]

Speed could be a factor with Ellis but I don’t think Lennon necessarily needed it to be a very good player early days but it could have caught up with him later on as it has with caddy.

They weren’t hard enough at the footy imo.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

Hmm, would you say stacked?

Personally I think Butts is really average, I have no idea about Murray and Worrell, and wasn't McAsey potentially about to be leaving and then stayed? Doesn't sound like the prospects are all that exciting to me, wouldn't you wanna draft a sure thing.

Anyway Andrew is a ruck as well, which you have like one of yeah? O'Brien and no one else?

LOL Butts average? Not sure what games you were watching mate but he had a solid year taking the best key forwards in the competition. Murray, Worrell and McAsey, again, are all developing and will take some time. Even Billy Frampton got put down back in the last few games and showed some class (that we're clearly never going to see up forward), so we'll probably look to develop him as a KPD as well.

Strachan best ruck in the SANFL last season and played the last two games in the seniors and showed he was more than capable. Handy backup ruck but i'd say we'll pick up a developing ruck in the MSD or something

 

[tigerfan1961]

Lennon could have been every bit the forward Caddy was or better, it was a shame.

Doesn’t have the mongrel in him that Caddy has in spades

 

[WeedsMullet84]

With pick 33 your next best after 4, I reckon your mob would be mad not to trade 4 for 7 & 15. You’d get two pretty decent mids at those two selections.
But for the record, I want us to keep both of those picks for the reason I just outlined to justify your mob trading pick 4 if that makes sense

I think Tiges only do that deal on the night, and only if they can't get Pick 2 from GWS AND one of Hobbs or Ward are still on the table.

My guess is that we would take Pick 7 & 15 for Pick 4.

Yeah i guess it comes down to respective recruiting managers, but Richmond seem to be making it pretty well known that you're looking to trade up.