List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Academy, Contracts, Trading & Draft

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Some more trade and draft resources. Courtesy of Lore.

Key Off-Season Dates
This is a comprehensive list including dates for draft combines, list lodgements, delisted free agency windows and return to train dates. I had to collate these from three different club websites because the AFL is lazy af and doesn't have it on their website, so thought it might be helpful to share:

AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY DATES 2021

AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY DATES 2021

Grand Final
Saturday September 25

Draft Combine – Vic Country
Friday October 1

Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
Wednesday October 3 - Friday October 15

Trade Period (picks and players)
Monday October 4 (9am) – Wednesday October 13 (7.30pm)

Draft Combines (States and Regions)
VM: Saturday October 9 (tbc)
Qld: Sunday October 10
Tas: Monday October 11
SA: Saturday October 16
WA: Sunday October 17
NSW & ACT: tbc
NT: will join SA or Qld

Trade Period (picks only)
Monday October 18 – Monday November 15

List Lodgement 1
Friday October 29

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
Wednesday November 3 – Tuesday November 9

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
Wednesday November 10

Delisted Free Agency Window 3
Thursday November 11 – Monday November 15

AFL Pre-Season Commences (First to fourth year players)
Monday November 22

National Draft
Round 1: Wednesday November 24 (7pm)
Round 2–end: Thursday November 25 (7pm)

Preseason and Rookie Drafts
Friday November 26 (3.20pm)

Final List Lodgement
Monday November 29

Pre-Season Commences (All other players)
Monday December 6

Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP)
December - March (tbc)

Pre-Season Christmas Break
Sunday December 19 - Sunday January 9

Draft Order & Future Pick Tracker



FAQs & Resources Thread

It has an index at the top with threadmarks so it's easy to find what you're looking for – or easier than scrolling through 250 pages of AFL Rules, Regulations and CBA pdfs anyway.

These sorts of questions are all answered along with a bunch of other resources made by posters from across BigFooty (feel free to add to it!):
www.bigfooty.com

Resource - FAQs: Rules, Regulations and Resources for Player Movements in the AFL

List sizes Club age and height profiles Salary cap information Trading rules including salary dumps Father/son & academy draft bids Free agency compensation formula & more
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com

GWS List Summary

Senior List

33: 36 less delisted Shipley & Hutchesson, delisted Wehr (to be reselected in rookie draft), traded Finlayson, plus DFA signing of Brander. 3 to 5 spots available at ND.

1 Phil Davis - 2022
2 Jacob Hopper - 2023
3 Stephen Coniglio - 2026
4 Toby Greene - 2026
5 Tanner Bruhn - 2022
6 Lachie Whitfield - 2027
7 Lachlan Ash - 2023
8 Callan Ward - 2022
9 Ryan Angwin - 2022
10 Jacob Wehr - 2022 [delisted with an agreement to select in the rookie draft]
11 Brayden Preuss - 2023
12 Tom Green - 2023
13 Isaac Cumming - 2022
14 Tim Taranto - 2022
15 Sam Taylor - 2025
16 Brent Daniels - 2025
18 Conor Stone - 2024
19 Nick Haynes - 2024
22 Josh Kelly - 2029
23 Jesse Hogan - 2022
24 Matthew De Boer - 2022
25 Lachlan Keeffe - 2022
26 Jake Riccardi - 2023
27 Harry Himmelberg - 2023
29 Cam Fleeton - 2022
30 Matt Flynn - 2023
32 Kieran Briggs - 2022
33 Xavier O'Halloran - 2022
36 Harry Perryman - 2022
37 Ian Hill - 2022
39 Connor Idun - 2022
40 Adam Kennedy - 2022
44 Jack Buckley - 2022

+ Jarrod Brander - 2022 (selected in first DFA window)

Rookie List - A

4: 7 less delisted Reid & Buntine, retired Shane Mumford. 0 to 2 spots available for rookie draft.

28 Zach Sproule - 2022
38 Daniel Lloyd - 2022
42 Jake Stein - 2022
45 James Peatling - 2022

Rookie List - B

2: full

35 Will Shaw - 2022
46 Callum M Brown - 2022 (Irish international rookie, extended 1 year under COVID rules)
 
Last edited:
Taylor Moss said:
As in its a good thing or a bad thing? Or you’ve suggested him in the past?
Click to expand...
Yeah I mentioned him when I heard we'd put in a bit of work a bit back, not a bad target imo
 

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sydney_gws said:
I don't pretend to be a draft expert,
but I am hoping we just take Callaghan at 2.
He seems the most likely to contribute to a flag in the next 3 years or so, as well as alot more years after that.
What do others think?
If not, then if 2,13 can somehow get rachell and mac Andrew that might be a good outcome as well.
If we take Callaghan, I wouldn't be opposed to trading pick 13 for a future first.
Geelong might do it, or hawthorn
After picks slide back 2:
15 for 23,hawthorn2022r2 would be OK, or

15, gws2022r2 for 24,geelong 2022r1.
If we do that, can always trade out 24 for lower/ future picks to stop it being entirely eroded by matching a Fahey bid.
Click to expand...
I think that's you're probably right about Callaghan being the player that is the best pick if we are aiming for a flag in the next 3 years. Given the draft analysis he clearly is the most AFL ready player and could do some serious damage in the future. I still like MAC but Finn would be an incredible addition.
If we are making that premiership tilt...I'd say they'll pick a player with 13 and get the players in a developing asap.
 
sydney_gws said:
I don't pretend to be a draft expert,
but I am hoping we just take Callaghan at 2.
He seems the most likely to contribute to a flag in the next 3 years or so, as well as alot more years after that.
What do others think?
If not, then if 2,13 can somehow get rachell and mac Andrew that might be a good outcome as well.
If we take Callaghan, I wouldn't be opposed to trading pick 13 for a future first.
Geelong might do it, or hawthorn
After picks slide back 2:
15 for 23,hawthorn2022r2 would be OK, or

15, gws2022r2 for 24,geelong 2022r1.
If we do that, can always trade out 24 for lower/ future picks to stop it being entirely eroded by matching a Fahey bid.
Click to expand...
Me too.
Just take the obvious pick.
There will be also someone very decent at 13 as well.
 
Orange crush said:
Cal Twomey saying giants big on Mitch Owens at 13 (15)
Click to expand...
If go Andrew and Owens with this hand, 2 enormous reaches, would be a reputation killer if they dont work out.

Ill be very disappointed if we do it. I don't expect us to get this sort of draft hand again. Taking such a huge risk is crazy. We can take these sort of guys with the late teens picks we hopefully have for the next few years.

Different sport, but same principle applies, a very successful league recruiter in our team has a guiding principal, despite the potential upside, the more that has to happen for them to be the player they can be, the less likely it is to happen.

Performance should trump potential.
 
GWS Goose said:
If go Andrew and Owens with this hand, 2 enormous reaches, would be a reputation killer if they dont work out.

Ill be very disappointed if we do it. I don't expect us to get this sort of draft hand again. Taking such a huge risk is crazy. We can take these sort of guys with the late teens picks we hopefully have for the next few years.

Different sport, but same principle applies, a very successful league recruiter in our team has a guiding principal, despite the potential upside, the more that has to happen for them to be the player they can be, the less likely it is to happen.

Performance should trump potential.
Click to expand...
And most importantly, what would players like Green, Hopper,Taylor think?
List managers wanting to show off rather than just helping the team to win a flag?
If we do that, if I'm hopper I would depart at the end of 2023 as a free agent.
 
sydney_gws said:
And most importantly, what would players like Green, Hopper, Taylor think?
List managers wanting to show off rather than just helping the team to win a flag?
If we do that, if I'm hopper I would depart at the end of 2023 as a free agent.
Click to expand...
I don't understand why you think players would think in such drastic terms?

They may have their own opinion of who they think might be a good fit for the team, but surely there's a degree of trusting the recruiters? I mean, I do agree that I'd prefer a guy like Callaghan or even Rachele to assist the team in both the short and long term, but if they did go Andrew & Owens, they obviously think they are better overall long-term prospects. Why do you think players would effectively ''spit the dummy'' over those selections?
 
GWS Goose said:
If go Andrew and Owens with this hand, 2 enormous reaches, would be a reputation killer if they dont work out.

Ill be very disappointed if we do it. I don't expect us to get this sort of draft hand again. Taking such a huge risk is crazy. We can take these sort of guys with the late teens picks we hopefully have for the next few years.

Different sport, but same principle applies, a very successful league recruiter in our team has a guiding principal, despite the potential upside, the more that has to happen for them to be the player they can be, the less likely it is to happen.

Performance should trump potential.
Click to expand...
The whole idea of 'reaches' is weird really, you're comparing the rankings of draft watchers who have, at most, 40% of the information and resources of an AFL club, it'd be even less this year given probably only 2 or 3 have access to NAB League replays. Our pick is around the start of that 30+ prospect crap shoot that should see some shocks compared to amateur watchers/ phantom drafts as well, so it wouldn't be surprising if we did genuinely have Owens there
 
sydney_gws said:
And most importantly, what would players like Green, Hopper,Taylor think?
List managers wanting to show off rather than just helping the team to win a flag?
If we do that, if I'm hopper I would depart at the end of 2023 as a free agent.
Click to expand...
I'm on the "don't reach" train but this part is pretty silly. If any player was thinking this they'd be leaving every year a team doesn't trade their first round pick for a proven player - after all even a top 10 rookie is unlikely to help you win a flag in the first couple of years after being drafted (with a very few exceptions that don't come around every year, e.g. Walsh or Selwood).
 
PMBangers said:
The whole idea of 'reaches' is weird really, you're comparing the rankings of draft watchers who have, at most, 40% of the information and resources of an AFL club, it'd be even less this year given probably only 2 or 3 have access to NAB League replays. Our pick is around the start of that 30+ prospect crap shoot that should see some shocks compared to amateur watchers/ phantom drafts as well, so it wouldn't be surprising if we did genuinely have Owens there
Click to expand...
For me reaches refers to how much they are factoring future development compared to where they are right now. The "high ceiling" type thought process as opposed to where they are ranked by watches.
The Andrew v Callaghan is a really clear example of this.
The peak for Andrew may be higher than it is for Callaghan (i don't necessarily think this is true, but happy to concede for the point of argument), however on the balance of probabilities Callgahan will have a better career based on the fact that right now he is already to go and will at least be a good player at AFL level, it is a very low risk selection (there is always some risk of course). Andrews we are relying on development, he is clearly a way off being eith a ruck or forward at AFL level, he may go on to be a star, but there is a very real chance he never fins a spot and is a skilful talented bits and pieces player.
If it works out, and he is a star, great, but with a pick 2, take the known quality.
 
All reach refers to for me is taking someone a lot higher then they're expected to be taken even if you some how know they're going to be a great player, taking them 20 spots higher then they should be is bad process it gives you a great result in the end because the player is good but you're not maximising the value of that pick which should be the goal with every choice. Example would be if the Giants think Mac is the best player in the draft that's likely going to go against the widely held concensus of other clubs who may view him in that 6-10 bracket, so the Giants taking him at 2 is sort of silly because he's going to be there later so it would be a reach. It's important to not be over confident in your evaluation of a player and take him much higher then anyone else because A) you dont have to and B) it looks really bad if he ends up missing and not working out. If the AFL is similar to the media's consensus view of Mac then taking him at 2 whether he works out or not is bad process, moving back for Mac is the only way I think taking Mac is acceptable.
 

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Hendo_21 said:
It's important to not be over confident in your evaluation of a player and take him much higher then anyone else because A) you dont have to and B) it looks really bad if he ends up missing and not working out. If the AFL is similar to the media's consensus view of Mac then taking him at 2 whether he works out or not is bad process, moving back for Mac is the only way I think taking Mac is acceptable.
Click to expand...

This is my main concern about reaching. You're basically claiming you're smarter than the rest, and chances are you're not.

Hendo_21 said:
All reach refers to for me is taking someone a lot higher then they're expected to be taken even if you some how know they're going to be a great player, taking them 20 spots higher then they should be is bad process it gives you a great result in the end because the player is good but you're not maximising the value of that pick which should be the goal with every choice. Example would be if the Giants think Mac is the best player in the draft that's likely going to go against the widely held concensus of other clubs who may view him in that 6-10 bracket, so the Giants taking him at 2 is sort of silly because he's going to be there later so it would be a reach.
Click to expand...

OTOH this is basically walking into the casino and dropping all your chips on red. You're gambling on getting some concept of value versus the risk of not getting a superstar. While one is you thinking you're better than the consensus, in this scenario you're not only thinking that but also thinking that all your compatriots are only as dumb as the consensus. The consensus of Mac might be in the 6-10 range but all it takes is a single team to buck that consensus (like we'd already be doing!) to rob you of that superstar.

Teams trade down when they have similar draft ratings on a bunch of players, so they don't need to worry about losing out on all of them and can get a little value out of it. They don't do it when they still want a single player unless it's a very small trade-down (1 or 2 picks) where they can guarantee the trading up team does not want that player.
 
dlanod said:
This is my main concern about reaching. You're basically claiming you're smarter than the rest, and chances are you're not.



OTOH this is basically walking into the casino and dropping all your chips on red. You're gambling on getting some concept of value versus the risk of not getting a superstar. While one is you thinking you're better than the consensus, in this scenario you're not only thinking that but also thinking that all your compatriots are only as dumb as the consensus. The consensus of Mac might be in the 6-10 range but all it takes is a single team to buck that consensus (like we'd already be doing!) to rob you of that superstar.

Teams trade down when they have similar draft ratings on a bunch of players, so they don't need to worry about losing out on all of them and can get a little value out of it. They don't do it when they still want a single player unless it's a very small trade-down (1 or 2 picks) where they can guarantee the trading up team does not want that player.
Click to expand...
Drafting Mac at 2 is basically like buying a car for $20,000 that everyone else would only pay $15,000 for, sure it might be a nice car but no one else on the market is going to pay that much, if you're deadset on that car and only want that car then you can still gurantee it by paying 16-17 thousand, the price is not insignificantly less and you're getting a better deal, while they're also throwing in a longer warranty and some fancy headlights.
 
Firstly, I like the strategy with Wehr (keeping him at the club) Not having a lot of VFL action (and even less televised) I will say that I quite liked what I saw when I saw it. He looked solid and composed down back and I would have had him ahead of Angwin in development.

Secondly, this talk of ‘reaches’ and upside vs immediate readiness. There are pitfalls both ways.

you say Callahan is AFL ready to go. We should draft him because he’ll be ready round one. some, the way they're talking, have him in their best 22 already - this is ridiculous of course. But best available, we need to draft him.

versus Andrew who’s potential may (and that‘s a big may) be higher in the long run but he’s a ‘reach’ to take early in the draft because he’s not quite ready yet.

couple of points.

the draft is a lottery - players don’t live up to potential (I remember the talk around the Geelong fan base at the time was that Nathan was better than Gary Jr) players get injured (Ahern etc.), players exceed expectations (too many examples of players taken late or in the rookie that are true champions of the game)

ready to go brings a burden of expectation - Callahan might be ready to go, but when he only plays a handful of games (because our midfield is stacked) in his first year and maybe a few more in his second and we’re back at the draft with another ready to go gun in our sights, he’s going to want out. big flight risk (particularly given some of his past comments already). so the early sure thing pick becomes a bust regardless of how good he is.

Particularly in this day and age when players aren’t willing to wait (Libba won 2 Gardener medals before cracking a regular senior spot, Michael Tuck played none in his first, 5 in his second and 11 in his third year - before going on to play over 400) Kids - particularly good kids (and those who think they're better than they are *cough Hately cough*) just aren’t willing to put the hard yards in learning their craft in the seconds.

a player considered a ‘reach’ is more likely to understand he’s not going to get a lot of senior footy in his first couple of years and more willing to bide his time in the magoos (which is now of a much higher standard than it was a couple of years ago) Their upside is that they stick around and when they are brought into the side, they're more than ready to go (Cumming / Idun etc.)

Whoever we choose I hope turns into a 200 game multiple Sheedy Medalist All Australian and if they do, then they won’t have been a reach at all.
 
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Giant Strides said:
Well, never expected it to be a guy in his first two years. I would not have thought that was allowed?
Click to expand...
There's been a handful of guys paid out of their rookie contract, but it's single digits in the last 20 years. This is basically a more polite version of that.
 
Hendo_21 said:
Drafting Mac at 2 is basically like buying a car for $20,000 that everyone else would only pay $15,000 for, sure it might be a nice car but no one else on the market is going to pay that much, if you're deadset on that car and only want that car then you can still gurantee it by paying 16-17 thousand, the price is not insignificantly less and you're getting a better deal, while they're also throwing in a longer warranty and some fancy headlights.
Click to expand...

You're putting a lot of assumptions into your post and positioning them as facts.
  • no one else on the market is going to pay as much
  • it can be guaranteed to be available at a lower price
Don't believe all (or any) the media reports. There's no way clubs are tipping their hands this far out from the draft.
 
Giant Strides said:
Feels a bit rude, though.

I mean, I know we've committed and we'll follow through and he'll still have a spot at the club, but just seems the rough end of a pineapple.
Click to expand...

Well insomuch as it's the club saying "we don't think you're going to make it but you've got a year to prove us wrong", sure, but I'm not sure how you don't consider delisting players much ruder in general then. :)
 
dlanod said:
You're putting a lot of assumptions into your post and positioning them as facts.
  • no one else on the market is going to pay as much
  • it can be guaranteed to be available at a lower price
Don't believe all (or any) the media reports. There's no way clubs are tipping their hands this far out from the draft.
Click to expand...
I think it's fair to assume Adelaide and Gold Coast won't take him with their first picks and Hawthorn is likely the first real risk of him being taken, if we moved back 2 spots that would swap us with Adelaide. Adelaide likely take Callaghan at 2, Gold Coast take Gibcus then leaving Mac to us at 4 is a very reasonable scenario, of course nothing is guranteed but we have to work with logic and reasoning and how possible something is and Mac being avaliable at 4 is very likely to me.
 
Hendo_21 said:
I think it's fair to assume Adelaide and Gold Coast won't take him with their first picks and Hawthorn is likely the first real risk of him being taken, if we moved back 2 spots that would swap us with Adelaide. Adelaide likely take Callaghan at 2, Gold Coast take Gibcus then leaving Mac to us at 4 is a very reasonable scenario, of course nothing is guranteed but we have to work with logic and reasoning and how possible something is and Mac being avaliable at 4 is very likely to me.
Click to expand...

or… we take Mac at 2, GC take Gibcus at 3 and Adelaide get Callaghan at 4 - same result, no trading of picks needed. I don’t see how he’s a reach at 2 but not at 4 when the same players to the same clubs are involved.
 
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