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List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

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gezimnexhipi said:
With the new rule kicking is a must priority and kpp depth
Click to expand...

Yep, 100%. It's become really clear that our midfield can win the footy but is really limited with it's kicking. We've fixed so much in this team over the last few seasons and seen the team develop into a side that can do most things but finish off it's good work.

This is how I see our midfield. The lack of creative kicks who can hit difficult targets is a problem. There's a lot of players here who kick within their limits and that's hurting our forwards and turning the ball over.

Best and Possible best 22 as it currently stands

Dow - He's been a really poor kick his whole career but has come from a preseason where his kicking has been fine, lets hope this comes good.

Williams - A good addition and a good kick.

Cripps - He's an ok kick but he kicks within his limits which aren't really damaging however he does enough other things well to have an impact on games.

Walsh - He's not a good kick. He turns it over a lot and kicks long a lot because he's limited. He's not damaging by foot and that's his biggest flaw but he's too good to not have and he may improve yet.

Martin - He's a good kick but only a part time mid.

Newnes - Another who kicks within his limits and his limits aren't great. Newnes can only kick long. We need to replace him in our best 22 as IMO his impact in games isn't good enough due to his kicking limitations.

Curnow - He's not damaging at all turns it over a fair bit, is limited to kicking to contests or kicking really short and safe. We need to replace him soon, he's been a warrior but he's in his 30's and he's not damaging at all. His impact in games now that we have a reasonable ball winning outfit is really low because he's not hurting the opposition with his possessions.

Setterfield - He's another who's kicking is really disappointing. He kicks within his limits or turns it over and that's not helping. Because of his kicking he's still a fringe player in my eyes even thought he's a young high draft picks who's game has improved. Good player but not good enough or strong enough in any area to say that no one will push him out and that he's cemented in our future. He may get better but lets see how he's using the ball.


Outside best 22
O'Brien - He's a good kick but he has looked comfortably outside our best 22 however that can change. IMO he's a player we should probably look to develop and play in our side.

Kennedy - From what I see he is an ok field kick but he's not best 22. Unfortunately he doesn't fit into a side with Cripps, Setterfield and Curnow who are all slower mids, the argument must be about whether he should replace one of them.

Fogarty - His kicking looks ok but he isn't best 22 IMO.

Stocker - Highly rated kick but at this stage is not best 22. Coach needs to rethink his thoughts around stocker if he's going alright and can hit a target he probably should be developing in the seniors. Is he a better option in Curnow's role?

Carroll - I don't know about his kicking, he's very young.

Ramsay - I'm not sure, was a promising junior and his kicking is rated by the coaches. Needs persisting with and if he's going well let's find a spot for him.

Philp - His kicking is rated but he's a way off at this stage but I see him as a wingman.

Gibbons - Not damaging by foot but has become an ok short kick which is at least something.

Cottrell - Haven't liked his kicking at all, need to improve a lot.

The way I see it, our bad kicks don't stand out because most of them know their limitations and stay within those boundaries. You see players kicking long to contests and that's often because the hard leading player was too difficult for them so they played it safe. Our major ball winners and main feeders into our forward line are limited kicks and this has stood out a lot over last season but has really stood out this season, particularly that practice game against St Kilda.

Guys like McGovern, Silvagni, Cuningham, Murphy, Martin etc who will put on hard leads in the front half are going to need players who can hit them on the chest and hit them in a tight defensive gap and our main ball winners, I don't see them doing that. I see them just bombing long and safe to the talls.

I think we might target some players from other clubs who can play midfield and who can kick and we need to favour our own who have this ability.


Come 2022 I believe this will hopefully be our best 22 and we need to trade around that as well. We need to halve the players in our midfield who aren't good enough by foot, keep the couple of elite ball winners (Cripps and Walsh) who are a bit ordinary and fill the rest with good ball winners who can kick.

B: Kemp Weitering Docherty
HB: Saad Jones Williamson
C: O'Brien? Cripps Walsh
HF: ??? McKay Martin
F: Fisher Curnow McGovern
OB: DeKoning Williams (Trade in gun, Zach Merrett for example)
IC: SPS Dow Stocker Silvagni

To be honest I wouldn't mind seeing a team close to this one in 2021.

David Teague is at the same stage in his rebuild where things started to go very wrong for Brett Ratten in our last rebuild so the coach and list managers need to really nail things here and get things right with their recruitment to finish off this team. That means continuing to draft and develop good youth, not hanging our hats on good hard working players with poor skills, not keeping guys in the side because and not looking to replace them because they are good honest players and doing ok. For this team I'm looking at where it can improve and the kicking skills and pace in the midfield is the main area and that's where the development lies IMO.
 
gbatman - good summary. Typically though no surprises that genuine on ballers are generally less endowed with kicking ability as long as disposal by hand is good enough to get the ball to blokes with better credentials - a game plan can be worked around it. Agree with you that if any criticism of Walsh is fair- it is his field kicking - average isn't something that sits well alongside all his other elite characterstics.

I think the Club is set up with the notion that Charlie Harry and a third tall - will be competitive beasts and if some decent smalls are around them - good enough to contend. In theory it is probably right. I agree that teh Club is not set up with field kicks betwen the arcs that are good enough to go through the center or kick 40 meter bulllts to advantage between the arcs with ease - hence twhat we are seeing so foar in games - same ol same ol entry style.
 
gbatman said:
Yep, 100%. It's become really clear that our midfield can win the footy but is really limited with it's kicking. We've fixed so much in this team over the last few seasons and seen the team develop into a side that can do most things but finish off it's good work.

This is how I see our midfield. The lack of creative kicks who can hit difficult targets is a problem. There's a lot of players here who kick within their limits and that's hurting our forwards and turning the ball over.

Best and Possible best 22 as it currently stands

Dow - He's been a really poor kick his whole career but has come from a preseason where his kicking has been fine, lets hope this comes good.

Williams - A good addition and a good kick.

Cripps - He's an ok kick but he kicks within his limits which aren't really damaging however he does enough other things well to have an impact on games.

Walsh - He's not a good kick. He turns it over a lot and kicks long a lot because he's limited. He's not damaging by foot and that's his biggest flaw but he's too good to not have and he may improve yet.

Martin - He's a good kick but only a part time mid.

Newnes - Another who kicks within his limits and his limits aren't great. Newnes can only kick long. We need to replace him in our best 22 as IMO his impact in games isn't good enough due to his kicking limitations.

Curnow - He's not damaging at all turns it over a fair bit, is limited to kicking to contests or kicking really short and safe. We need to replace him soon, he's been a warrior but he's in his 30's and he's not damaging at all. His impact in games now that we have a reasonable ball winning outfit is really low because he's not hurting the opposition with his possessions.

Setterfield - He's another who's kicking is really disappointing. He kicks within his limits or turns it over and that's not helping. Because of his kicking he's still a fringe player in my eyes even thought he's a young high draft picks who's game has improved. Good player but not good enough or strong enough in any area to say that no one will push him out and that he's cemented in our future. He may get better but lets see how he's using the ball.


Outside best 22
O'Brien - He's a good kick but he has looked comfortably outside our best 22 however that can change. IMO he's a player we should probably look to develop and play in our side.

Kennedy - From what I see he is an ok field kick but he's not best 22. Unfortunately he doesn't fit into a side with Cripps, Setterfield and Curnow who are all slower mids, the argument must be about whether he should replace one of them.

Fogarty - His kicking looks ok but he isn't best 22 IMO.

Stocker - Highly rated kick but at this stage is not best 22. Coach needs to rethink his thoughts around stocker if he's going alright and can hit a target he probably should be developing in the seniors. Is he a better option in Curnow's role?

Carroll - I don't know about his kicking, he's very young.

Ramsay - I'm not sure, was a promising junior and his kicking is rated by the coaches. Needs persisting with and if he's going well let's find a spot for him.

Philp - His kicking is rated but he's a way off at this stage but I see him as a wingman.

Gibbons - Not damaging by foot but has become an ok short kick which is at least something.

Cottrell - Haven't liked his kicking at all, need to improve a lot.

The way I see it, our bad kicks don't stand out because most of them know their limitations and stay within those boundaries. You see players kicking long to contests and that's often because the hard leading player was too difficult for them so they played it safe. Our major ball winners and main feeders into our forward line are limited kicks and this has stood out a lot over last season but has really stood out this season, particularly that practice game against St Kilda.

Guys like McGovern, Silvagni, Cuningham, Murphy, Martin etc who will put on hard leads in the front half are going to need players who can hit them on the chest and hit them in a tight defensive gap and our main ball winners, I don't see them doing that. I see them just bombing long and safe to the talls.

I think we might target some players from other clubs who can play midfield and who can kick and we need to favour our own who have this ability.


Come 2022 I believe this will hopefully be our best 22 and we need to trade around that as well. We need to halve the players in our midfield who aren't good enough by foot, keep the couple of elite ball winners (Cripps and Walsh) who are a bit ordinary and fill the rest with good ball winners who can kick.

B: Kemp Weitering Docherty
HB: Saad Jones Williamson
C: O'Brien? Cripps Walsh
HF: ??? McKay Martin
F: Fisher Curnow McGovern
OB: DeKoning Williams (Trade in gun, Zach Merrett for example)
IC: SPS Dow Stocker Silvagni

To be honest I wouldn't mind seeing a team close to this one in 2021.

David Teague is at the same stage in his rebuild where things started to go very wrong for Brett Ratten in our last rebuild so the coach and list managers need to really nail things here and get things right with their recruitment to finish off this team. That means continuing to draft and develop good youth, not hanging our hats on good hard working players with poor skills, not keeping guys in the side because and not looking to replace them because they are good honest players and doing ok. For this team I'm looking at where it can improve and the kicking skills and pace in the midfield is the main area and that's where the development lies IMO.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure we'll be targeting more than one opposition player this year, at least in a best 22 sense (might shop around for depth).

We've invested so much time and draft collateral into building the list as it stands, and as you've pointed out we do have players with good disposal who could and should be looking to step up soon.

Over the course of the year, we should be looking to introduce guys like O'Brien, Stocker and Parks to the senior side on a regular basis. In doing so, we probably aim to field the following side sometime in the latter stages of the season:

FB: Doc, Jones, Parks
HB: Saad, Weitering, Williamson
C: Setterfield, Walsh, LOB
R: De Koning, Cripps, Williams
HF: Martin, McKay, Murphy
FF: Fisher, Curnow, McGovern
I/C: Dow, SPS, Stocker, Silvagni
EMG from: Cuningham, Plowman, Newnes, Newman, Gibbons, Fogarty, Curnow

Names in green being the recognised reliable quality users by foot, blokes who you'd trust to hit a leading target to their advantage.
Blue are the ones who can pull off some incredible kicks but are prone to some howlers.
Orange are the unspectacular, usually reliable ones who probably shouldn't try anything too fancy.
Red can stick to handballs, easy kicks to space and long kicks to contests.

I'm pretty confident in suggesting that a mix like that would stack up well when compared with the same assessment of other teams.

I'd be considering developing Kemp behind Jones for the time being, and maybe drafting an 18yo KPD who can be afforded 4-5 years of development. Or if we don't like Kemp as a second tall defender, recruit one in the next 2 years from another club.

I think a Merrett type would be a horrible overinvestment now, unless we lose someone of note who frees up some major salary space.

There's enough top end talent in the list, it's more about refining the gameplan and improving the intensity.
 
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JustaBattler said:
gbatman - good summary. Typically though no surprises that genuine on ballers are generally less endowed with kicking ability as long as disposal by hand is good enough to get the ball to blokes with better credentials - a game plan can be worked around it. Agree with you that if any criticism of Walsh is fair- it is his field kicking - average isn't something that sits well alongside all his other elite characterstics.

I think the Club is set up with the notion that Charlie Harry and a third tall - will be competitive beasts and if some decent smalls are around them - good enough to contend. In theory it is probably right. I agree that teh Club is not set up with field kicks betwen the arcs that are good enough to go through the center or kick 40 meter bulllts to advantage between the arcs with ease - hence twhat we are seeing so foar in games - same ol same ol entry style.
Click to expand...

There is no doubt that onballers statistically aren't great with their kicking accuracy because they are often kicking under pressure and without time to look and wait for an option. However it's when our guys get that time to look they are still not making their kicks count. If there were a stat to measure it it would be unforced kicking errors but there's not.

We've see Walsh on an outside role and recently Setterfield on the wing as well and their kicking should be better and the same said for Newnes. I've seen enough of Ed over the years when he gets time and a forward leads and he can't hit him to know what he's capable of.

Unfortunately our midfield just lacks this important skill over the board. Against the Saints last week it was clear that the players feeding their forwards were a lot better at it than ours.



Blue__Balls said:
I'm not sure we'll be targeting more than one opposition player this year, at least in a best 22 sense (might shop around for depth).

We've invested so much time and draft collateral into building the list as it stands, and as you've pointed out we do have players with good disposal who could and should be looking to step up soon.

Over the course of the year, we should be looking to introduce guys like O'Brien, Stocker and Parks to the senior side on a regular basis. In doing so, we probably aim to field the following side sometime in the latter stages of the season:

FB: Doc, Jones, Parks
HB: Saad, Weitering, Williamson
C: Setterfield, Walsh, LOB
R: De Koning, Cripps, Williams
HF: Martin, McKay, Murphy
FF: Fisher, Curnow, McGovern
I/C: Dow, SPS, Stocker, Silvagni
EMG from: Cuningham, Plowman, Newnes, Newman, Gibbons, Fogarty, Curnow

Names in green being the recognised reliable quality users by foot, blokes who you'd trust to hit a leading target to their advantage.
Blue are the ones who can pull off some incredible kicks but are prone to some howlers.
Orange are the unspectacular, usually reliable ones who probably shouldn't try anything too fancy.
Red can stick to handballs, easy kicks to space and long kicks to contests.

I'm pretty confident in suggesting that a mix like that would stack up well when compared with the same assessment of other teams.

I'd be considering developing Kemp behind Jones for the time being, and maybe drafting an 18yo KPD who can be afforded 4-5 years of development. Or if we don't like Kemp as a second tall defender, recruit one in the next 2 years from another club.

I think a Merrett type would be a horrible overinvestment now, unless we lose someone of note who frees up some major salary space.

There's enough top end talent in the list, it's more about refining the gameplan and improving the intensity.
Click to expand...

I think we might be and should be keen to chase a player who has what we need in that midfield group and that's a good strong ball winning mid who when he gets time and space can hit those difficult targets in the forward line. I can see us having another go at Zach Merrett (RFA) and that might mean we have to trade one of our ball winners who doesn't fit into our setup.

O'Brien and Stocker can kick and they need to be played if they are going any good. I'd rather see Stocker in the side doing a run with role than Ed Curnow. O'Brien if he has matured enough I would prefer him to Newnes. Newnes has got the nod recently because he's more physical but that can change and with the new rules, perhaps O'Brien is more valuable.

Parks impressed in the practice match and he's got to be a chance. I think with Parks and Kemp coming through Plowman is under a lot of pressure and so is Marchbank when it comes to keeping a list spot. Kemp might be that Jones replacement, I don't know yet but I feel he'd be able to play anywhere from 3rrd to 2nd tall by the looks of his quality.

I would rank Jones a better kick than that, he's usually very good but has the odd howler. Statistically Walsh probably should be in the red and I don't see Setterfield being any better than Cripps. I would put Newnes in red, he only kicks long and when he kicks short you can see why, he's good at kicking long but he's doing it not because he's good at it. Cuningham is talked about being a good kick and he is for goal but he hasn't proven elite as a field kick yet. I reckon you've done a pretty good job with your ratings. I'm hoping Dow improves.

If we're going to have a good game plan capable of winning a premiership we need to be able to execute it and those turnovers inside 50 can't be a part of that. I don't think our forward targets are too bad, we just burn them too often.

I'm not sure Merrett would be a bad option, he might push out a player who's a lesser kick and make our midfield more potent going forward. The better teams really feed their forwards well and we don't and we need to fix that in a hurry. If not him then someone else. We should have currency and trade bait again so here's hoping we can improve our list.

If we can successfully replace Murphy, Betts, Curnow and Newnes next season with good quality players then we are going forward. I would be concerned if they are best 22 next season. No offence to them but this needs to happen to go forward. IMO if our list really takes off then I can see this happening and guys like Plowman and Setterfield, who are good players but a little limited as being fringe. A lot has happened to our list and a lot of improvement has been made but if we want to win a premiership this is the next step.

Unfortunately when the side gets selected I feel there will be very little green in it.
 
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Doc is the one doing my head in. I know that he has always done those simple kicks back and forth around the backline which makes his stats look better then he actually is but he has still really seemed to be struggling to hit fairly basic kicks for our go to distributor out of the backline.

I don’t rate him that highly but LOB is the guy we really need to come on. If he becomes a player for us our entire side improves dramatically. Exactly what we need
 

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Team DJ said:
Now just do his stats for the last 2 months of the season.
Click to expand...
What, when a 34 year old Betts was playing a game every 3-4 days? Of course it's going to be nothing like his stellar first month before the footy frenzy and condensed fixture!

But even then, Betts still at the end of the year lead all of our mid-small forwards in average goals per game, goal assists, tackles and tackles inside 50. More than Martin, Fisher, Gibbons, Cuningham and Newnes.

Betts is in our best 22.
 
Ash24 said:
What, when a 34 year old Betts was playing a game every 3-4 days? Of course it's going to be nothing like his stellar first month before the footy frenzy and condensed fixture!

But even then, Betts still at the end of the year lead all of our mid-small forwards in average goals per game, goal assists, tackles and tackles inside 50. More than Martin, Fisher, Gibbons, Cuningham and Newnes.

Betts is in our best 22.
Click to expand...
I can definitely see him jostling for a spot with Cuningham and maybe Fogarty, but otherwise I think he's struggling because of the midfield contribution that Fisher, Martin and Murphy will be making via the forward unit.
 

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